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hedda_foil

(16,374 posts)
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 12:51 PM Jan 2016

Watching MTP. It looks like we're not alone.

Chuckie refers to Iowa poll that asked Iowa Democrats if they considered themselves socialists or capitalists and 43 percent said socialist and just 38% said capitalist. That's a .massive sea change that's never been seen in my lifetime, and I remember Harry Truman.

Iowans are as middle-American as middle-Americans can be. And they're claiming the socialist mantle. My jaw is lying on the floor. Could someone help me pick it up?

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Watching MTP. It looks like we're not alone. (Original Post) hedda_foil Jan 2016 OP
Wow. That is amazing. K&R nt Live and Learn Jan 2016 #1
my grandpa owner of FAIR DEAL DAIRY would be happy. He was an avowed socialist and proud of it roguevalley Jan 2016 #8
Oh, hell yes.... daleanime Jan 2016 #2
Comrade passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #45
That is 43% that won't vote for Hillary. He just needs 8% more. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #3
Oh I don't know I have seen a few Hillary supporters at DU claim to be socialists! m-lekktor Jan 2016 #5
Yeah, and I'm guessing.. cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #17
Actually, a third of Iowa Democrats who call themselves 'socialists' are for Hillary Clinton. Eric J in MN Jan 2016 #16
Oops! nt MADem Jan 2016 #19
In the words of Mr. Dylan... Punkingal Jan 2016 #4
and in regards to how we finance our elections.... Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #6
Great album... mimi85 Jan 2016 #29
IMO, Iowa Democrats are among the most highly informed of all Democratic primary voters. Green Forest Jan 2016 #7
thank you for the compliment as an Iowa Democrat rurallib Jan 2016 #20
Thanks for the welcome! Green Forest Jan 2016 #28
sent you a private message so we can talk rurallib Jan 2016 #49
Aw, thank you! Green Forest Jan 2016 #52
Iowan's take pride in being the first and they do the research jwirr Jan 2016 #33
They sure do. They also hate negative campaigning and have a finely tuned bullshit meter. Green Forest Jan 2016 #40
" " " " n/t MBS Jan 2016 #63
I trust Iowa caucus-goers, too MBS Jan 2016 #68
I agree. MBS Jan 2016 #42
How true and how I wish that were so. Green Forest Jan 2016 #54
agree!!! MBS Jan 2016 #61
I would say the younger generation is even higher pro-socialism Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #9
swing wide, sweet pendulum eShirl Jan 2016 #10
the revolution bus is coming restorefreedom Jan 2016 #11
Agree. His interviews with HRC and Bernie were far more even-handed than the other three shows. hedda_foil Jan 2016 #18
i didn't care for the ftn one either. restorefreedom Jan 2016 #30
I hate to admit it, but I had on Chuckie Toad as well. Bohunk68 Jan 2016 #34
rubio is a spoiled brat lunatic. and yes, chuckie is surprising restorefreedom Jan 2016 #36
Hot under the collar, "Little Man Syndrome" . . . Utopian Leftist Jan 2016 #41
Jesus that is a scary thought. restorefreedom Jan 2016 #50
Rubio is a lunatic, all right. MBS Jan 2016 #66
too bad the boy wonder is the establishment fave restorefreedom Jan 2016 #69
Socialism for the BANKS! capitalism for YOU! ish of the hammer Jan 2016 #12
Another version: We privatize the profits and socialize the losses. libdem4life Jan 2016 #51
Shut up with that Commie talk and pay your share, Citizen! Ikonoklast Jan 2016 #65
LOL...I'll settle for a Unicorn. libdem4life Jan 2016 #70
That reinforces my view, that Bernie is dispelling that antiquated paranoia "Eek he's a Socialist!!" 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #13
He's doing what dems have been needing to do for a long time passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #46
Yup. And it IS sticking, as Bernie's overall trends keep rising, as people hear & study him. nt 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #48
Fascinating karynnj Jan 2016 #14
Prior to 1980 those midwestern states were heavy labor - TBF Jan 2016 #15
+1000. We, the people, are not the winners when corpoations and churches JimDandy Jan 2016 #22
Keep in mind that the people who hate socialism are anti-social. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #21
And that is Iowa! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #23
Have to pick up mine first, hedda-foil! Duval Jan 2016 #24
I'll pick up yours and you pick up mine and we'll trade! hedda_foil Jan 2016 #39
K&R Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #25
Modern Capitalism - Where The Powerful Get To Kill Anyone scottie55 Jan 2016 #26
from your second link questionseverything Jan 2016 #27
The problem is that we now serve Wall Street. PatrickforO Jan 2016 #32
imagine if "fractured interest" benefited WE THE PEOPLE questionseverything Jan 2016 #35
If a thinking person is given a choice between socialism and PatrickforO Jan 2016 #31
Unregulated capitalism has to fail. Only so much money goes to the top before it all falls down. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2016 #38
Well, the word may hav lost much of its sting in the 25 years since the collapse of the USSR. But KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #37
Capitalism is necessary for a wealthy country, passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #47
Any system left unfettered The Wizard Jan 2016 #59
We Millennials roll our eyes when Boomers start ranting Cold War anti-socialist BS. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #67
K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2016 #43
Chuckie should do some research before he asks these questions. Eg, 7 in 10 young people in this sabrina 1 Jan 2016 #44
I am skeptical. Most young people I know don't even know what democratic socialist is. totodeinhere Jan 2016 #58
What this tells me..... FarPoint Jan 2016 #53
They better be careful that they wish for dreamnightwind Jan 2016 #55
That's not a change. 59% of Democrats had a positive view of Socialism in the last Gallup poll. stevenleser Jan 2016 #56
OKAY, Guess You're The Winner... No Change!! ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #57
Capitalism has come to mean the same as Oligarchy. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #60
People hear the word "social" a lot greymattermom Jan 2016 #62
As a socialist this makes me happy. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #64
They know the sea change watching social media. Polling better there, just look at those stocks! ViseGrip Jan 2016 #71

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
8. my grandpa owner of FAIR DEAL DAIRY would be happy. He was an avowed socialist and proud of it
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:10 PM
Jan 2016

so am I. I have always been a socialist.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
3. That is 43% that won't vote for Hillary. He just needs 8% more.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:00 PM
Jan 2016

I think that is very doable.

Needing 13% above that 38% is going to be much harder. There is only 19% to play with if we assume all the Socialists vote for Bernie and all the Capitalists vote for Hillary (which is a pretty big assumption). Getting 13 out of 19 seems very unlikely to me.



Edit due to Freudian slip (hard to do while typing, but I did it).






Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
16. Actually, a third of Iowa Democrats who call themselves 'socialists' are for Hillary Clinton.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:41 PM
Jan 2016

"...a remarkable 43 percent of likely Democratic caucus participants describe themselves as socialists, including 58 percent of Sanders’s supporters and about a third of Clinton’s."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/can-clinton-find-the-spark-to-fend-off-the-challenge-from-sanders/2016/01/16/a6b4d98a-bc6f-11e5-829c-26ffb874a18d_story.html

 

Green Forest

(232 posts)
7. IMO, Iowa Democrats are among the most highly informed of all Democratic primary voters.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:06 PM
Jan 2016

They wear the mantle of first-in-the-nation with integrity. I am not surprised.

People underestimate Iowans but they were ahead of the curve in 2008 before any other state.

 

Green Forest

(232 posts)
28. Thanks for the welcome!
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:05 PM
Jan 2016

I volunteered for Obama in Des Moines from 2007-2008 and in doing so, I gained a healthy respect for the caucus process -- it's the closest thing to the Athenian concept of pure democracy we have in the U.S. when done correctly -- and "Iowa Nice" Iowans.

I'd ask you more but do not want to put you on the spot. Thanks again for the welcome!

rurallib

(62,415 posts)
49. sent you a private message so we can talk
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jan 2016

referred to as a 'PM' around here (PMed you)

click on the yellow banner when it comes up or click on 'my inbox' in the upper right corner.
will be busy for a few hours but will check back before end of day

 

Green Forest

(232 posts)
52. Aw, thank you!
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:32 PM
Jan 2016

I was hoping we could "talk" but wanted to respect your privacy. I will PM you back later, too.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
33. Iowan's take pride in being the first and they do the research
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:46 PM
Jan 2016

and work to do a good job. I trust them to know that Bernie is a good choice.

 

Green Forest

(232 posts)
40. They sure do. They also hate negative campaigning and have a finely tuned bullshit meter.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:13 PM
Jan 2016

Ergo, the result in 2008.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
68. I trust Iowa caucus-goers, too
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:23 AM
Jan 2016

They deserve to be proud of their role. I have huge respect for them, and look forward to seeing what happens in this caucus in particular.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
42. I agree.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:27 PM
Jan 2016

I did telephone-campaigning for Kerry in 2003/2004, and found Iowa voters by far the most knowledgeable and most serious voters I encountered in the entire campaign.
They really took their caucus responsibilities seriously.
I found myself thinking, "If all voters were like this, our country would be in better shape than it is."

 

Green Forest

(232 posts)
54. How true and how I wish that were so.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jan 2016

Are you doing anything now for any candidate? I was crushed by what happened to Kerry in 2004 but have been very proud of him since, especially now as he is the absolute best Secretary of State in my lifetime. Honestly, he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
61. agree!!!
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:37 AM
Jan 2016

I was all in for Kerry and Obama, but I am not committed to anyone yet (except to voting for the Dem candidate in November). Also, unfortunately, I am forced by circumstances to focus on keeping my home fires burning right now.

But my Iowa phone-banking for Kerry was truly a wonderful experience. People were so open and earnest and knowledgeable. I know I swayed at least one undecided voter, too. She had been featured on NBC News as an undecided voter; from what had been revealed about her background, I knew just how to reach her. (Key themes of my pitch revolved around 4-H and Pella Windows ). So, after blissfully ignoring the phone-bank supervisor's rules about which phone lists to call that day, I hunted her down (at her office! on a Saturday!), and then, when she told me that she and NBC News were going to be at a tea with Teresa Heinz Kerry, I passed the info onto the Powers that Be. Then, on caucus night, she announced her choice for Kerry on NBC News!! When asked what swayed her, she said, " A phone call from Sen. Kerry". (Good! He/they did exactly what needed to be done!).But I think I get to take credit for starting the ball rolling in the first place. A proud moment - too bad I can't list it on my resume!

I worked in New Hampshire, too, but Iowa was the best.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
11. the revolution bus is coming
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:19 PM
Jan 2016

time to board or get out of the way.

i was amazed at the somewhat evenhandedness of chuck toaster pastries. he is almost starting to act like a real analyst and not a campaign hack.

hedda_foil

(16,374 posts)
18. Agree. His interviews with HRC and Bernie were far more even-handed than the other three shows.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jan 2016

I was looking forward to Dickerson on FTN but his interview with Bernie was all attempted gotcha questions with a bizarre camera angle on the 2-shot that made Bernie look lilllputian.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
30. i didn't care for the ftn one either.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:15 PM
Jan 2016

and i was hopeful initially. mtp did the best job.

wait.....what's happening to me???

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
34. I hate to admit it, but I had on Chuckie Toad as well.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:50 PM
Jan 2016

He was fairly evenhanded and that shocked me. Hillary, otoh was using dog whistles galore against Bernie, just like the rethugs he interviewed. Rubio was off the fricking wall. That guy is crazy.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
36. rubio is a spoiled brat lunatic. and yes, chuckie is surprising
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:53 PM
Jan 2016

many of us. he might turn out to be a voice of reason. wouldn't that be hilarious?


Utopian Leftist

(534 posts)
41. Hot under the collar, "Little Man Syndrome" . . .
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:26 PM
Jan 2016

with an axe to grind.

I have a feeling about Rubio: what he wants, what he really, really wants? His finger on the button.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
66. Rubio is a lunatic, all right.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:18 AM
Jan 2016

A narcissistic, shamelessly careerist, unprincipled, completely irresponsible (especially about the responsibilities of his elected offices), lying, spoiled brat lunatic. I continue to marvel how he can reel out a superficially-fluent flow of words, without actually saying anything.
And, yes, Chuck Todd was good yesterday to my surprise as well. Hopefully, he'll keep it up.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
69. too bad the boy wonder is the establishment fave
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jan 2016

but it won't do them any good this cycle...even the repubs are bucking the establishment. keeping fingers crossed that todd turns into a real pundit with fairness and evenhandedness..

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
13. That reinforces my view, that Bernie is dispelling that antiquated paranoia "Eek he's a Socialist!!"
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jan 2016

By simply saying so what? and reminding people of what socialism really is, and how
socialism works for ALL of us through SS, Medicare, etc.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
46. He's doing what dems have been needing to do for a long time
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:17 PM
Jan 2016

changing the narrative. Challenging the excuses. Repeating the information often so it sticks.

karynnj

(59,503 posts)
14. Fascinating
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:35 PM
Jan 2016

I think what happened here is that the question creates a "choice" leading most to choose one or the other.

The second thing is that it shows the combination of how the word "capitalism" has increased negatives, while socialism is - at least seen as more benign than capitalism.

Back in 2010, a British English teacher was telling us that she showed her students both the Obama hope poster and a 2010 Republican version that made Obama blacker and replaced "hope" with "socialism". The idea was to show the power of graphics and propaganda. It didn't quite work -- until she explained that in the US "socialism" was considered a bad thing!

It is interesting that this either shows that capitalist has become MORE toxic or socialism ( ie SS, Medicare etc) is becoming less demonized.

TBF

(32,060 posts)
15. Prior to 1980 those midwestern states were heavy labor -
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:37 PM
Jan 2016

it seems to go in waves. We had heavy socialist voting back in the very early 1900s. The unions get strong and put up socialist candidates (or at least very liberal), they make progress w/hours etc., capital pushes back with ad campaigns & weakens the unions, conditions start deteriorating, workers start organizing again, rinse and repeat. It seems to go in cycles. The past 30+ years have been full of corporations/churches taking over in every possible way. People are starting to realize they are not the winners in that situation.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
22. +1000. We, the people, are not the winners when corpoations and churches
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 02:19 PM
Jan 2016

take over in every possible way.

 

scottie55

(1,400 posts)
26. Modern Capitalism - Where The Powerful Get To Kill Anyone
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 02:50 PM
Jan 2016

Who gets in the way of their profits.

Chevron / Texaco Kills Thousands
http://www.amazonrainforestnews.com/2009/09/ecuador-vs-chevron-saga-of-death.html

Millions Starve From Goldman Sachs Crisis
http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/04/27/how-goldman-sachs-created-the-food-crisis/

The list goes on, and on, and on.

Murder for profit.

Anyone see why some might consider Capitalism anything less than perfect?

By they way, after killing thousands, or millions, no one went to prison.

That's how the world turns right?

Bernie, and Us can stop this madness. Once and for all. Before it is too late.

questionseverything

(9,654 posts)
27. from your second link
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:03 PM
Jan 2016

The result of Wall Street’s venture into grain and feed and livestock has been a shock to the global food production and delivery system. Not only does the world’s food supply have to contend with constricted supply and increased demand for real grain, but investment bankers have engineered an artificial upward pull on the price of grain futures. The result: Imaginary wheat dominates the price of real wheat, as speculators (traditionally one-fifth of the market) now outnumber bona-fide hedgers four-to-one.

Today, bankers and traders sit at the top of the food chain — the carnivores of the system, devouring everyone and everything below. Near the bottom toils the farmer. For him, the rising price of grain should have been a windfall, but speculation has also created spikes in everything the farmer must buy to grow his grain — from seed to fertilizer to diesel fuel. At the very bottom lies the consumer. The average American, who spends roughly 8 to 12 percent of her weekly paycheck on food, did not immediately feel the crunch of rising costs. But for the roughly 2-billion people across the world who spend more than 50 percent of their income on food, the effects have been staggering: 250 million people joined the ranks of the hungry in 2008,

//////////////////////////////////////////

this article explains why wall street is so dangerous to us all

PatrickforO

(14,574 posts)
32. The problem is that we now serve Wall Street.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:44 PM
Jan 2016

But if we realize as a people that we can turn that around so that banking and Wall Street serve the common need instead of enriching just a few, then we could make this country and this world a pleasure for everyone to live in.

Yank the Fed's charter, repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and nationalize the central banking system. Ellen Brown has it right in 'Web of Debt.'

questionseverything

(9,654 posts)
35. imagine if "fractured interest" benefited WE THE PEOPLE
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:52 PM
Jan 2016

instead of enslaving us

people point to reagan as the turning point but it was actually 1913

PatrickforO

(14,574 posts)
31. If a thinking person is given a choice between socialism and
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:40 PM
Jan 2016

capitalism, there can only be one decision.

That is why I'm supporting Bernie Sanders.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
37. Well, the word may hav lost much of its sting in the 25 years since the collapse of the USSR. But
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 03:59 PM
Jan 2016

I'm sorry to inform you that Sanders, bless his soul, is as capitalist as the day is long.

I like him a lot but let's be honest: Most Americans don't have the slightest idea what socialism is or what it means.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
47. Capitalism is necessary for a wealthy country,
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 06:20 PM
Jan 2016

but it needs to be neutered with socialism. Together they work. Alone they each have problems.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
44. Chuckie should do some research before he asks these questions. Eg, 7 in 10 young people in this
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:36 PM
Jan 2016

country WANT a Democratic Socialist Govt. And nearly half of all Americns would vote for Dem Soc candidate.

The old cold warriors don't understand that their propaganda doesn't work in today's world where people can educate themselves on what the world Socialist means.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
58. I am skeptical. Most young people I know don't even know what democratic socialist is.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 11:37 PM
Jan 2016

They are more concerned with making sure their cell phone gets charged. In fact a lot of them don't even know who Jimmy Carter or Richard Nixon are.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
55. They better be careful that they wish for
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 07:54 PM
Jan 2016

A candidate like Bernie is uniquely qualified to expose the illegitimacy of the Republican Party. They in no way represent the will of the people, instead using wedge politics to win elections for their rich donors' interests. Since Hillary and other establishment Democrats are slightly better versions of the same process, the GOP lie is not exposed by most in our party, but Bernie can and will show how wrong they are.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
56. That's not a change. 59% of Democrats had a positive view of Socialism in the last Gallup poll.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 08:12 PM
Jan 2016

But 50% of Americans overall have a negative opinion of Socialism.

ChiciB1

(15,435 posts)
57. OKAY, Guess You're The Winner... No Change!!
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 09:00 PM
Jan 2016

Psst, I think it's gathering a LOT OF MOSS! And the numbers will grow larger for Socialism. We've only just begun to "talk about" Socialism in the las 7 to 8 months.

IT'S EARLY!

greymattermom

(5,754 posts)
62. People hear the word "social" a lot
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:40 AM
Jan 2016

and now it just means society, like social medial, social security, social club. It used to be connected with Communism, but no one talks about that anymore. Those polls should ask folks what they think Socialism and Capitolism mean, and it's probably people vs banks and Wall Street.

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