Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:17 PM Jan 2016

Let's talk about Hillary and her stances on gay marriage

We can start with these.




Remember When Hillary Clinton Was Against Gay Marriage?
http://gawker.com/remember-when-hillary-clinton-was-against-gay-marriage-1714147439




The video above is from 2004, when Clinton was a senator. In it, she says ‘I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman.” The talk continued:

“...the fundamental bedrock principle that [marriage] exists between a man and a woman, going back into the midst of history as one of the founding, foundational institutions of history and humanity and civilization, and that its primary, principal role during those millennia has been the raising and socializing of children for the society into which they are to become adults.”


A decade prior, she stood by her husband as he signed the Defense of Marriage Act, a piece of legislation that codified gay America’s second-class status. So it’s fair to say that Hillary Clinton has had a longstanding opposition to gay marriage—either that, or she was too afraid to speak truthfully about her convictions for political reasons, which is really just as bad. Only in 2013, as a presumptive 2016 presidential contender, did Clinton reverse her stance.



Hillary Clinton’s changing position on same-sex marriage
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/17/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-change-position-same-sex-marriage/



December 1999: Clinton told a group of gay contributors at a fundraiser that she was against the "don't ask, don't tell" military policy signed by her husband.

The New York Times reported that Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said she supported the Defense of Marriage Act but added that "same-sex unions should be recognized and that same-sex unions should be entitled to all the rights and privileges that every other American gets."

January 2000: At a news conference in White Plains, Clinton said, "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman. But I also believe that people in committed gay marriages, as they believe them to be, should be given rights under the law that recognize and respect their relationship."

April 2000: Clinton again expressed support for civil unions. "I have supported the kind of rights and responsibilities that are being extended to gay couples in Vermont," she said.

July 2004: Clinton spoke on the Senate floor against a proposed federal amendment to ban same-sex marriage. (The amendment ultimately failed.) Though she opposed it, she said that she believed that marriage was "a sacred bond between a man and a woman."

..... She announced her support for same-sex marriage in March 2013.

More at link http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/17/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-change-position-same-sex-marriage/






And while Hillary was busy defending DADT, DOMA and everything else under the sun, Bernie was doing this on the floor! Pretty darn obvious who wins this one.
#FeelTheBern

61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's talk about Hillary and her stances on gay marriage (Original Post) pinebox Jan 2016 OP
Is she bad or good for being able to change her mind and evolve? uppityperson Jan 2016 #1
It's like this pinebox Jan 2016 #4
Ah, so the timing is suspect, leading to wondering if it's political maneuvering or does she mean it uppityperson Jan 2016 #6
Correct. pinebox Jan 2016 #7
I guess it depends on whether one thinks leadership means waiting til the polls give you the goahead Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #11
But, but...she doesn't pay attention to polls elias49 Jan 2016 #15
Only certain politicians are allowed to evolve mcar Jan 2016 #17
You conveniently left out her supportive statements and actions while Secretary of State, including Metric System Jan 2016 #2
Actually I left out her freaking out about passport gender changes. Thanks! pinebox Jan 2016 #3
Evolve... Devolve... Revolve. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #5
She finally came out for SSM after it had 58% support in a poll jfern Jan 2016 #8
Maybe now that most Americans support Marijuana legalization Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #12
Oh yeah, it has 58% support too jfern Jan 2016 #31
I am a gay man and I am so happy she evolved. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #9
+1 MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #13
+1 beaglelover Jan 2016 #19
sanders evolved too but that's ok ONLY if he is the one evolving lol nt msongs Jan 2016 #20
+1 Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #29
Depends on what the polls say. jeff47 Jan 2016 #32
Ridiculous. Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #33
Well, she waited to 58% support before supporting. jeff47 Jan 2016 #34
Dumb. Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #39
I apologize that history does not live up to your high expectations. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2016 #56
Me too dlwickham Jan 2016 #52
Right, Sanders has NEVER EVER evolved on anything. Progressive != perfect uponit7771 Jan 2016 #10
Sure meanwhile pinebox Jan 2016 #16
So Sanders can throw no stones in that category either right? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #21
She can be everyones President that way. NorthCarolina Jan 2016 #14
I'm a gay man and I will proudly vote for Hillary. She is the most qualified person running beaglelover Jan 2016 #18
Qualified? pinebox Jan 2016 #22
Yes, highly qualified. First Lady, elected Senator from a MAJOR state, and Secretary of State. beaglelover Jan 2016 #23
Sure pinebox Jan 2016 #25
Hillary has been active in politics since she was in High School in the 60's Lucinda Jan 2016 #36
That was back when she was a Republican, right? Betty Karlson Jan 2016 #38
In High School. And her first two years of college. After that she left the party of Lucinda Jan 2016 #53
I sometimes doubt whether Third Way-ers aren't still Republicans at heart. Betty Karlson Jan 2016 #60
But I thought Bernie wasn't part of the establishment. baldguy Jan 2016 #40
You're seriously equating being mayor of the largest city in Vt to being married to a governor? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #43
Do you seriously think First Lady isn't an important political position? baldguy Jan 2016 #44
Since she wasn't elected and didn't govern it's not comparable. And gender has NOTHING to do with it beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #45
When they take the role of one of their spouse's chief advisers it does. baldguy Jan 2016 #48
No it doesn't count as experience. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #49
As I said - speaks volumes. baldguy Jan 2016 #50
Yes it does, about logic and reason. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #51
So you're conceding the point that St. Bernard has NO foreign policy experience. Got it! beaglelover Jan 2016 #54
And you think Hillary has GOOD foreign policy experience? pinebox Jan 2016 #59
kick! in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #24
Unfortunately, the Ayn Rand Greed Doctrine Jenny_92808 Jan 2016 #57
I know. in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #58
You seem to have accidentally left out that Sanders himself said gay marriage was divisive mythology Jan 2016 #26
Here's the significant difference Prism Jan 2016 #27
You seem to have left out that Bernie never opposed marriage equality for moral/religious reasons. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author baldguy Jan 2016 #41
Serial flip-flopper Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #30
She's never been a fierce advocate for equality. bigwillq Jan 2016 #35
Clinton only grudgingly changed positions on gay marriage Betty Karlson Jan 2016 #37
. baldguy Jan 2016 #42
Please we see your winsock pinebox Jan 2016 #61
And Hillary's SuperPacMan David Brooks cried about gay marriage just about 3 years ago RiverLover Jan 2016 #46
Every move is calculated to benefit her politically. azmom Jan 2016 #47
Shillary is a windsock, AFAIK she has no actual views. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #55
 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
4. It's like this
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:27 PM
Jan 2016

Waiting until 2013 to do just before your run for the Presidency and defending DADT, DOMA and being anti-gay marriage for literally decades? It's awesome, if you're a Sloth.

uppityperson

(115,681 posts)
6. Ah, so the timing is suspect, leading to wondering if it's political maneuvering or does she mean it
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:29 PM
Jan 2016

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
11. I guess it depends on whether one thinks leadership means waiting til the polls give you the goahead
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:49 PM
Jan 2016

to do the right thing.

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
2. You conveniently left out her supportive statements and actions while Secretary of State, including
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:24 PM
Jan 2016

extending benefits and protections to partners of gay diplomats and her "gay rights are human rights" speech in Geneva.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
8. She finally came out for SSM after it had 58% support in a poll
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:34 PM
Jan 2016

Such bold leadership to side with the most liberal 58% of Americans!

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
12. Maybe now that most Americans support Marijuana legalization
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:50 PM
Jan 2016

she will distance herself from politicians like Debbie Wasserman Schultz who vote to throw terminally ill cancer patients in prison for using it.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
9. I am a gay man and I am so happy she evolved.
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jan 2016

When people see that marriage equality is good and abandon their old positiins I am glad.

I marched in the pride parade with her and I am happy to support her.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
34. Well, she waited to 58% support before supporting.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 01:38 AM
Jan 2016

Reasonable to believe she still has the same threshold.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
14. She can be everyones President that way.
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:53 PM
Jan 2016

Think marriage is a sacred bond between one man and one woman? Well glorious days, Hillary does too! On the other hand, if you feel that marriage is a right? Well glorious days, Hillary does too!

Ingenious...I think.

beaglelover

(3,496 posts)
18. I'm a gay man and I will proudly vote for Hillary. She is the most qualified person running
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 08:11 PM
Jan 2016

for POTUS and will get things done for all Americans.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
22. Qualified?
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 08:17 PM
Jan 2016

At what? Weapons deals? Bad foreign policy that had lead us into wars? More people dying from being uninsured? What part of "All Americans" are you referring to? The ones who won't be making a living wage still?

beaglelover

(3,496 posts)
23. Yes, highly qualified. First Lady, elected Senator from a MAJOR state, and Secretary of State.
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 08:38 PM
Jan 2016

She's has more foreign policy experience in her pinky fingernail than St. Bernard has in his entirety. Notice how St. Bernard never talks about foreign policy. It's because he doesn't know anything about it. Yeah, that's what we need in a POTUS, especially after Obama.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
36. Hillary has been active in politics since she was in High School in the 60's
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 02:47 AM
Jan 2016

It's your math that is weak, not her experience.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
53. In High School. And her first two years of college. After that she left the party of
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 11:24 AM
Jan 2016

her parents and then spent the rest of the 60's as a Dem.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
60. I sometimes doubt whether Third Way-ers aren't still Republicans at heart.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:18 AM
Jan 2016

(the old kind of not yet crazy Republicans that is)

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
40. But I thought Bernie wasn't part of the establishment.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:48 AM
Jan 2016

You can't have it both ways.

And if his stint as Mayor is relevant, Clinton's role as First Lady of Arkansas for 10 yrs should be too.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
43. You're seriously equating being mayor of the largest city in Vt to being married to a governor?
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:55 AM
Jan 2016


What Kind of Mayor Was Bernie Sanders?

In his eight years as mayor of Burlington, Vermont, Bernie Sanders revitalized the economy and solidified support for progressive municipal policies.

By Peter Dreier and Pierre Clavel

John Davis remembers a meeting in 1986 when Bernie Sanders, then the mayor of Burlington, Vermont, confronted the owners of the city’s largest affordable-housing complex. The federal program that had subsidized the Northgate Apartments for 20 years had a loophole that allowed the landlords to convert the buildings into market rentals or luxury condos.

“Bernie pounded his fist on the conference table in his office and told the owners, ‘Over my dead body are you going to displace 336 working families. You are not going to convert Northgate into luxury housing,’” recalled Davis, who was Sanders’s key housing aide.

Under Sanders’s leadership, the city adopted a number of laws to stifle the owners’ plans. One ordinance required apartment owners to give residents two years’ notice before a condo conversion. Others gave residents a pre-emptive right to buy the units and prohibited landlords from bulldozing buildings unless they replaced them with the same number of affordable units. (These measures lowered the selling price of the property.) Sanders then worked with the state government and Senator Patrick Leahy to get the $12 million needed to purchase and rehabilitate the buildings. The city allocated funds to help the tenants hire an organizer, form the Northgate Residents Association, and start the process of converting the complex to resident ownership. Today, Northgate Apartments is owned by the tenants and has long-term restrictions to keep the buildings affordable for working families.

The battle over Northgate Apartments illustrates Sanders’s general approach to governing. In addressing this and many other issues, he encouraged grassroots organizing, adopted local laws to protect the vulnerable, challenged the city’s business power brokers, and worked collaboratively with other politicians to create a more livable city.

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernies-burlington-city-sustainable-future/

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
45. Since she wasn't elected and didn't govern it's not comparable. And gender has NOTHING to do with it
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 08:07 AM
Jan 2016

First husbands' stints aren't comparable to actual mayoral experience either.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
48. When they take the role of one of their spouse's chief advisers it does.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 08:19 AM
Jan 2016

Or do you think spouses don't talk to one another about their work?

The fact that Clinton's experience as First Lady in Little Rock is being ignored and in Washington being denigrated speaks volumes.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
49. No it doesn't count as experience.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 08:23 AM
Jan 2016

She wasn't elected, she didn't govern and her role as an advisor wouldn't count as experience if she wasn't married to the governor so why should it count because she was?

The fact that Clinton's experience as First Lady in Little Rock is being ignored and in Washington being denigrated speaks volumes.


Irrelevant. She could have been the greatest first lady the state has ever seen - it still isn't comparable to being the mayor of Vermont's largest city.


beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
51. Yes it does, about logic and reason.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 08:33 AM
Jan 2016

You attempted to equate Bernie's experience as mayor with Hillary's role as first lady of Arkansas and failed.

That has nothing to do with Hillary and everything to do with your absurd comparison.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
59. And you think Hillary has GOOD foreign policy experience?
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:27 PM
Jan 2016

So many wars, so many dead, so little time.

 

Jenny_92808

(1,342 posts)
57. Unfortunately, the Ayn Rand Greed Doctrine
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 06:50 PM
Jan 2016

has replaced "noblesse oblige" in America because of the republicans.

Noblesse Oblige: The inferred responsibility of privileged people to act with generosity and nobility toward those less privileged.

Bernie has got it right and I can hardly wait to vote for him.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
58. I know.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:09 PM
Jan 2016

That's why they need the reminder.

I remember the time when being greedy or boastful about your wealth was shameful and frowned upon in a polite society. It was a shameful, arrogant thing and IMO, it still is.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
26. You seem to have accidentally left out that Sanders himself said gay marriage was divisive
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 09:57 PM
Jan 2016

Here let me help correct that oversight.

As mayor of Burlington in 1990, Sanders told an interviewer that LGBT rights were not a “major priority” for him. Asked if he would support a bill to protect gays from job discrimination, Sanders responded, “probably not.”

Like his current Senate colleague Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, Sanders deserves credit for opposing DOMA—then a popular measure with bipartisan support—while a member of the House of Representatives in 1996. But Sanders’ efforts to parlay this vote into indisputable proof of his marriage equality bona fides ring hollow in light of his statements at the time. Explaining his vote in 1996, Sanders’ chief of staff declared that it was motivated by a concern for states’ rights, not equality.

Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told reporters that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive.”)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

Like I said, I'm sure this was just a misclick and you hit submit on your post without realizing that you failed to mention that Sanders also has a highly suspect record on same sex marriage if you are looking for purity.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
27. Here's the significant difference
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 09:59 PM
Jan 2016

Sanders might not have been as pro-active on various issues as my community may have liked, but . . .

He never hammered at us for personal political gain.

Hillary has. For a very long time.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
28. You seem to have left out that Bernie never opposed marriage equality for moral/religious reasons.
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 10:06 PM
Jan 2016

The first quote you referenced is unsourced, he said "not right now" about same sex marriage in Vermont because the supreme court decision overturning the ban on it almost tore Vermont apart, and the fact is he did vote against DOMA for whatever reason.

Hillary, on the other hand, went on a crusade against gay marriage, declaring it was a "sacred bond" between a "man and a woman".

She also said this in 2000:

Clinton said in January 2000 that marriage does not include gay unions: "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman." She said she would have voted for the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, but again said she supported partnership benefits for same-sex couples. Gay groups expressed disappointment in her position.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/03/18/how-hillary-clinton-evolved-on-gay-marriage/



Neither is perfect but one of the candidates was adamantly opposed to marriage equality and went out of her way to defend "traditional" marriage and it wasn't Bernie.

Response to mythology (Reply #26)

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
35. She's never been a fierce advocate for equality.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 02:36 AM
Jan 2016

She only does and says things for her own political gain.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
37. Clinton only grudgingly changed positions on gay marriage
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 05:51 AM
Jan 2016

when it became imperative to do so if she wanted to remain viable in the primaries. And even then: she will share her videos with GLBT couples, but I have yet to see her share a frame with them. The engaged couple in her candidacy announcement sent her an invite to their wedding - and Clinton STILL hasn't RSVP-d. She is THAT uncomfortable with gay guys.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
46. And Hillary's SuperPacMan David Brooks cried about gay marriage just about 3 years ago
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 08:14 AM
Jan 2016
Same-Sex Marriage Makes David Brooks Crazy
The 'New York Times' columnist goes on a weird, bitter rant against gay rights

BY MATT TAIBBI April 2, 2013

But then, he cried yesterday because his conservative party is losing it.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/david-brooks-proposes-a-kinder-gentler-republican-party-20160121

And last year, he cried because poor people are so useless & entirely to blame for their circumstances
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/for-david-brooks-the-rich-are-people-the-poor-are-numbers-20150311

Why can't people see the Clintons rhetoric is the ONLY thing not conservative about them?

Its mind-blowing.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
55. Shillary is a windsock, AFAIK she has no actual views.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 04:29 PM
Jan 2016

She gets focus groups to tell her what to believe.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Let's talk about Hillary ...