2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"The establishment" = Social Security, SSI, VA, Medicare/Medicaid, ACA, GA, EEOC, FDA, SNAP, HUD,
FDIC, AFDC, support for labor unions, support for LGBT and reproductive rights, FTC, FDA, FDC, and many other federally operated or regulated services and programs including, yes, the banking and finance sectors in addition to the mil-intel operations which, as objectionably massive as they are, have grown less so in the current Democratic administration.
That's a lot of moving parts to coordinate, which is not a game for amateurs or "deciders" who delegate day-to-day operations to a power-mad minister who can handle them. President Obama may not be the best delegater but that's partly why we're on the cusp of an economic expansion that not even FOX and CNN will be able to ignore: low oil prices, low interest rates, new industries, TPP (which will create new jobs in those new industries), and reduced military expenditures are eventually going to produce a widely-felt recovery that the next administration will likely get credit for -- as long as they don't blow it.
I don't think Hillary will blow it, but I don't know of any other candidate on either side who is up to the task.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)have listed is one of a few, thanks for your post. One could say a long standing group such as NAACP is apart of the establishment also, Sanders is wrong on disparaging unions and groups who have worked so hard to raise up the middle class.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I was also thinking of Bernie's plan to re-legislate the ACA, which is a fool's errand if ever there was one.
riversedge
(70,223 posts)NARAL ?@NARAL Jan 21
#HillYes! We're on the ground in Iowa City, excited to see @HillaryClinton take the stage later tonight! #ImWithHer
Cecile Richards Verified account ?@CecileRichards 17h17 hours ago
.@DMRegister: No other candidate can match the depth or breadth of her knowledge and experience. @HillaryClinton #HillYes #ImWithHer
111 retweets 155 likes
Hillary for Florida ?@Hillary4Florida 3h3 hours ago
Hillary Clinton outlines autism proposal:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/05/hillary-clinton-outlines-autism-proposal-calling-for-nationwide-early-screening-initiative/
🇺🇸#Hillary2016 #ImWithHer #DemDebate #DemForum #UniteBlue #Florida #HillYes
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)And Wall Street powerhouses and the multiple Intelligence Agencies have shrunk and are less powerful due to actions of the Obama Administration?
Cool story
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)As for regulating Wall Street and reducing military expenditures: 1) Dodd-Frank reform, and 2) "How Obama Shrank the Military":
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DoddFrank_Wall_Street_Reform_and_Consumer_Protection_Act
2. http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-obama-shrank-the-military-1438551147
mmonk
(52,589 posts)endlessly works at cutting benefits to many social programs for "budget" reasons, likes privitization ideas, etc.
cali
(114,904 posts)Programs are not the same thing as references to the democratic establishment. Not even related. But your op is so very Clintonian.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)riversedge
(70,223 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)And Bernie has never said that.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Do try to keep up.
Anxiously awaiting the new definition of establishment.
artislife
(9,497 posts)riversedge
(70,223 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)any of those programs. Even now, they work to weaken them any chance they get. Chained CPI anyone?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and have managed to preserve it in the teeth of repeated attempts to repeal it. Tomorrow's establishment Democrats will have to keep fighting the same battle, and if anyone thinks they're going to get an entirely new and better healthcare program through both houses anytime soon, they're sadly mistaken.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)as a firewall against the implementation of Single Payer or a public option.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)How many have? And why would that change?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Clue: It wasn't the establishment Democrats that added it.
Take a WAG and see if you can figure out who should really be credited for it's inclusion.
If you need a hint, here's a video that will help you out:
You can scroll ahead to about 2:50 mins in so you don't have to suffer the whole anti-establishment video.
ish of the hammer
(444 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Here's what the Democratic governor said when he pulled the plug in December 2014:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/12/21/6-reasons-why-vermonts-single-payer-health-plan-was-doomed-from-the-start/#7155584c277d
Do you know no other states have passed single payer either? So what makes you think Congress would pass a plan that couldn't even pass muster in Vermont?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)is what my momma always said.
I'll take my chances with Sanders thank you very much. He, at least, is trying to change the equation. I'm not really of a mind set to vote for status quo. Nice attempt at deflection, but I will admit that I am pleased to see you are in complete agreement with me that Senator Sanders addition to the ACA that permits individual states to create a public option made it a much better program that that originally drafted by the establishment cronies in the Democratic Party. Guess it was a good thing for the people that Bernie was in DC looking out for their best interests during the negotiations.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)How would a do-over end with a different result?
artislife
(9,497 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Losers keep insisting they've lost. You're pining for something you already have, namely, single payer. That seems to be a pattern. Renegotiate NAFTA, done, but let's renegotiate NAFTA! Shrink the military, done, but let's shrink the military! Regulate banking, done, but let's regulate banking, etc.
Not exactly inspirational. Well to some I suppose.
I am glad you are supporting h.
Because according to your "logic", she wouldn't be running this cycle. She lost. Already.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I'm sure that you know he is really talking about expanding beyond ACA to Medicare for all, and that ACA would logically remain intact during the transition to a single payer system. Why the need to "fib"?
Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #15)
Name removed Message auto-removed
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'm going to seriously rethink my support.
Hillary. Yay. Man that's inspiring.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)A little more each time ...
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)media never get credit.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)man in the world, but I know how to find those who are." I think we agree, he did just that...the Father of the common automobile.
I think Bernie would agree with that 100%. He doesn't have to be an accountant to choose a Secretary of the Treasury. He doesn't have to be a consummate warrior or pacificst to choose a competent Secretary of Defense.
That's what Leaders do. They surround themselves with Leaders more capable of their expertise than they are. I'm sure you get the point.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)or authority in a nation or organization. NOT the nation or organization itself.
Sorry, you lose. Please play again.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)This can't even be ascribed to right church, wrong pew thinking. It's a completely different building altogether.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)except when it is. Of course!
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Go ahead- cling to your contorted view of what the establishment is.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)the management of these liberal organizations and the actual mission of the organizations so they claim criticism of the management is actually criticism of the MISSION of the organization ie Bernie is against women or Bernie is against the gays!! I can't believe Hillary people are actually that fucking STUPID so it has to be feigned willful obtuseness so they can have a strawman to howl about.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)And what constitutes the establishment isn't even a hard question. Yeah, obtuse IS the word for it.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Had to XD
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)It is their handlers that are apart of the establishment. Do try to keep up.
Also, I can't believe you actually stated the TPP would provide more jobs... You're half right. But the jobs won't be here.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)1. the action of establishing something or being established.
synonyms: foundation, institution, formation, inception, creation, installation; More
2. a business organization, public institution, or household.
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=establishmetn+definition&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#newwindow=1&safe=off&q=establishment+definition
So do you think Bernie is calling them establishments based on what their front doors say or based on other establishments their handlers are apart of?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)But that's just me, YMMV. The point is that it's basically a talking point and if you look at what it actually means most of us would want to preserve it.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)The "establishment" as we refer to it, is the network of the wealthy, the backdoor deals, the bourgeosie, the elites, all working together and pulling the strings to make the oligarchy work as it does. It supercedes our government's control, while pretending everything is fine.
Obama has done good work, but he too has been restrained by this elitist establishment. I don't blame him personally, I believe he went in with good intentions and then he was strong armed by the majority of Republicans to play along.
I think most believe, as do I, that the establishment is mostly rooted to the right. In money, in favor of corporate interests and business. It doesn't care for the little people. So the establishment is truly dominating over in the Republican party. When people point out centrist democrats or Democrats who also play too nicely with those interests, we see our Democratic Party, the party of the people, in danger of swinging right.
We see that in Hillary's actions and lifestyle. We don't see it in Bernie's.
To put it short, money corrupts, Money corrupted the Republican party LONG ago, and now it's encroaching on the Democratic Party.
This post had no snark in it, and I hope you were genuinely curious to know which establishment we're referring to when we use the word.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)have helped undermine or said they were open to "reforming"?
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Heck I might even classify them as socialist programs.