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Armstead

(47,803 posts)
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:30 PM Jan 2016

If the Democrats were serious about health care they would be meeting Bernie halfway

To be perfectly honest (I always try to be, but to be really perfectly honest) I think Bernie may be overreaching on healthcare.

I believe his approach is exactly what we need, and I believe we can get there. But not immediately.

Were I in change of his campaign, I would push for a progression, starting with a voluntary universal public option. Make Medicare available to everyone who is willing to pay a surcharge based on income to buy into it at whatever age. Others can stick with private insurance of they prefer.

I would also prefer to see the Democrats actually supporting that as the "pragmatic" compromise.

That, IMO would be something that a lot of people would accept, or it would at least not be so scary. Once that is in place, people would have the option of public coverage.It would also make the idea less of a political bogeyman. And over time could build on that to move towards full single payer.

But instead of that, those who support Clinton and oppose Sanders are just doing their usual "No We Can't" and demonizing universal healthcare as a pony, higher taxes, and all the GOP shit in their arsenal. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Just my opinion.

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If the Democrats were serious about health care they would be meeting Bernie halfway (Original Post) Armstead Jan 2016 OP
If Bernie is serious he will work to get Democrats elected in congress Renew Deal Jan 2016 #1
He's got his hands full at the moment...But that is also a bit part of what he emphasizes Armstead Jan 2016 #2
BUT, the Democrats literally are "meeting" halfway, Hortensis Jan 2016 #8
Making medications affordable should not be considered meeting halfway Armstead Jan 2016 #9
Okay, it's meeting 3/4. Hortensis Jan 2016 #10
MY point was meeting halfway is not the same as doing what most everyone agrees on Armstead Jan 2016 #11
And my point is that you're unreasonable. Hortensis Jan 2016 #12
The Democratic Establishment and their lame and Corporate Ways are always the fallback plan Armstead Jan 2016 #13
I didn't intend to pull your string Hortensis Jan 2016 #14
I used to think you were reasonable...Guess not Armstead Jan 2016 #15
Democrats that want to work for the PEOPLE. Not those that have already proven they'll fit right Skwmom Jan 2016 #7
Bernie IS doing just that pinebox Jan 2016 #17
let's get a little real w0nderer Jan 2016 #3
I think the public option would be the natural next step, but in this political climate, it's tough. DanTex Jan 2016 #4
It'd be easier if Democrats stopped thinking like that Armstead Jan 2016 #5
That won't work. The fiscally responsible and morally right thing to do is single payer. Skwmom Jan 2016 #6
More health care/insurance reform is off the table. bigwillq Jan 2016 #16

Renew Deal

(81,861 posts)
1. If Bernie is serious he will work to get Democrats elected in congress
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:37 PM
Jan 2016

Because that's the key to this whole thing. Short of that, it's an ambitious campaign promise with no path to acomplishment.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
2. He's got his hands full at the moment...But that is also a bit part of what he emphasizes
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:41 PM
Jan 2016

If you read/listen to his speeches he is the first to say "I can;t do this alone. It isn't only about me." And then goes on to tell people they have to get involved and elect people who will represent them...etc.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
8. BUT, the Democrats literally are "meeting" halfway,
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 03:15 PM
Jan 2016

planning on major advances in healthcare coverage this next term, making medications affordable, etc., moving closer to single payer. And all they get from this crowd is literally hundreds of defeatist posts about how that will be a complete and tragic failure.

I'd say they should go eat worms, but of course they'll be benefiting right along with everyone else, no doubt still complaining bitterly about a lost shining world "made of faith, and trust, and pixie dust.”

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
9. Making medications affordable should not be considered meeting halfway
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 05:02 PM
Jan 2016

That's pretty basic, and should have been done many years ago...even though it never gets done, that's one there is clearcut public support for, with no real controversy.

I'll skip the worm diet (although I've been told they are nutritious) but you can count me in as a member of "this crowd" of pissed off people.

The ACA is NOT moving towards single payer. It went in the opposite direction, by further entrenching the insurance companies. That's what "they" (including me) are so pissed off and disappointed by. All of the baroque formulas for targeted maybe possibly partial tax credits, qualification for some obscure mousehole qualification for some otehr form of partial maybe subsidy....It's all just a distraction that is making the ridiculous complexity worse.

A public option would be a step in the right direction. Nice and straightforward and nion-threatening. But the Democratic power structure (including the Clinton campaign and surrogates) have decided that is just too hard. Giving people a choice many would welcome is too hard to fight for.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. And my point is that you're unreasonable.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 05:34 PM
Jan 2016

A third to half of all Americans oppose to fanatically oppose what both Hillary and Bernie want to do. Pretending otherwise is not just dishonest, it's dangerously foolish.

It is okay, it's great even, to fight for 100% right now. But preferring to sneer at the really important advances Hillary supports as nothing, if they were all that could be achieved against great resistance from the right, IMO is not just callous and unprincipled, it's really dumb.

BTW, you guys do realize that at least a few of those you're standing shoulder-to-shoulder with now will be heading to the right to join those fighting to destroy the ACA if Bernie doesn't win the primary?

Maybe be a little reasonable? How about Hillary's as a fall-back plan tucked into a back pocket of your mind -- just in case it turns out you can't have everything this time around? Bernie isn't isn't going to lose if people don't send constant absolute-conviction vibes into the ether. It doesn't work that way.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
13. The Democratic Establishment and their lame and Corporate Ways are always the fallback plan
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 05:40 PM
Jan 2016

The Republicans are truly awful. Supporting the Democrats is the only firewall there is against those clowns and crooks and despots. That will be the case in November, as always, if it's Clinton vs. GOP (fill in the blank Republican Dickhead)

Doesn't mean I have to like it, or express support for the determination of the Democrats to be the Party of Nothing Else that it has become.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
7. Democrats that want to work for the PEOPLE. Not those that have already proven they'll fit right
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 03:05 PM
Jan 2016


in with the corrupt way of doing business in D.C.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
3. let's get a little real
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jan 2016

for the US far the F++k extreme socialist democrats (like FDR) ....commie f**kers
super left wing socialist democrats == lefty of center democrats
extreme left democrats == democrats central
democrats with good social conservatism == democrats
democrats == republicans lite
conservative democrats == tea partiers
republicans == germans during 1938
tea partiers == SIEG HEIL!

see how easy it works

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
4. I think the public option would be the natural next step, but in this political climate, it's tough.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:52 PM
Jan 2016

The public option failed even with 60 in the senate and a house majority.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
5. It'd be easier if Democrats stopped thinking like that
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:58 PM
Jan 2016

The GOP is clear -- "We going to kill Obamacare, and let the market run healthcare." Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But that's what they are aiming at, and selling and trying in a direct way.

The Democrats have never been clear. Far too many of their eitehr agree with the GOP, or they say "Yes universal single payer is a good idea but we can't it because gosh gee whillikers the public will never accept that." And too gutless to even defend a public option on its merits, and work to convince the public that it would, simply offer them a choice.

Instead the only strategy is "No we can't."

If that continues guess who definitely WILL win in the long run.....Gimme a G, gimme an O, giomme a P....

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
6. That won't work. The fiscally responsible and morally right thing to do is single payer.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 03:02 PM
Jan 2016

Obamacare is a ticking time bomb already exploding. This shows just one of the reasons, but there is lots more.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/05/27/obamacares-big-overhead-costs-to-top-270b.html

Your approach leaves millions with no insurance.

An incremental approach is not going to fix this huge problem.

Single Payer is a no-brainer:

1. Lowers our labor costs.
2. Saves people money.
3. Covers everyone.




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