2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes an image of the AARP mailer exist anywhere on the internet?
I have seen a lot of outrage over a Bernie mailer that supposedly included the AARP logo, but so far I have yet to see anyone post an image of this mailer.
If an image of this mailer exists anywhere on the internet please post it so we can all judge it for ourselves.
If on the other hand this ad is so rare that not one person can even find an image of it then please explain to me how an ad that no one can even see could lead people to believe the AARP has endorsed Bernie.
Thank you.
PatrickforO
(14,592 posts)Here...check out my RAT. Isn't he cool? I love this rat!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)That made me both cringe and laugh out loud
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)AARP doesn't endorse candidates, so Big Fail. They didn't go after Bernie to be MEAN to him. They went after him because he was using their logo and they wanted him to stop doing that.
Further, the whole "rat fuck" meme has to do with the r-a-t in "Democrat....so by posting your ugly little rat pic, you're in essence insulting all of us here who are Democrats.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Please present us with the image of the ad with the logo so we can judge it for yourselves.
Thank you.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'm not a Sanders supporter--he hasn't sent me anything. Yet. If his people got my states' database when they broke into the files, I may be hearing from him soon. We'll see.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)DIRECT mail. It's not going out over the airwaves, or published in a paper for anyone to see. They have a pretty good idea who their audience is for this kind of thing. I'll bet most of the recipients of that mailer were over sixty five.
They aren't sending this stuff to children and Trump supporters. It's going to Sanders enthusiasts, or people they think they can 'turn,' to try and get out the vote.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Now you seem to acknowledge you were wrong however as you admit it is targeted ADvertising.
MADem
(135,425 posts)in an effort to catch one's eye and persuade.
It wasn't plastered on the side of buses or on billboards.
It was mailed to likely voters as a GOTV tool. It's a distinction and a difference.
You can call it a Big Fig if you'd like--it was still wrong, what Sanders' people did.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)You chose to correct me because I called an ad an ad, now you are twisting yourself in knots trying to say that a direct advertising mailer is not an ad.
Keep it up, you are providing me some good laughs tonight.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Bottom line--someone took something that didn't belong to them.
AGAIN.
If you find that 'funny' and worthy of a laugh, well, yuck it up!
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)to their members. Isn't it great how they look out for their elderly membership.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)They make twice on health insurance than they do on membership.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That said, their 'assholishness' doesn't give a campaign a "RIGHT" to steal their logo or misrepresent that organization as supporting one particular candidate when they don't 'do' endorsements.
jfern
(5,204 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)that's kind of confusing. So where is it?
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Whereas Bernie's team destroyed Hillary's campaign within either 45 minutes or 2 hours of data access according to team Hillary.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Haven't found it. I tried to ask about it at that site that is linked to the response to Bernie's team, but it's not taking messages.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Here is the link they are posting. http://states.aarp.org/aarp-statement-in-response-to-sanders-mailing/?intcmp=DSO-LOGIN
Try to leave a comment and see what happens AND speaking of comments, notice how many comments there are on such a scandalous event.
Then go to AARP.org
Search for States - click on Iowa.
NOTHING! Not one word.
Total bullshit.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)but, oddly enough, there is no link to it.
http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)around to media outlets...
jfern
(5,204 posts)Like one that implies that they aren't 100% lies
MADem
(135,425 posts)campaign to stop using their logo. I don't particularly care for AARP as an organization, but I doubt that they are lying.
http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806
Senator Bernie Sanders has built his insurgent presidential bid around being Mr. Clean, but several outside groups are now accusing his campaign of playing dirty.[/blockquote
Sanderss campaign in Iowa has included League of Conservation Voters and AARP logos in recent mailers its sent to prospective caucusgoers, a subtle effort to tie himself to those groups, if not implying an endorsement. But neither group has backed him. The AARP, which represents retirees, does not endorse candidates, and the League of Conservative Voters, an environmental advocacy group, is supporting Sanderss Democratic foe, Hillary Clinton.
And now news has broken of what is potentially an even more bald-faced deception, in Nevada, where Sanders supporters have reportedly been posing as members of Las Vegass powerful Culinary Workers Union Local 226 to try to rally labor support ahead of the states Democratic caucuses on February 20.
That last deception is particularly egregious. Sanders is not being well served by his staff. They take things that don't belong to them, and they misrepresent themselves. That's pretty low conduct. They aren't helping their candidate.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Now has anyone seen the AARP ad or not? If not then why would it matter if AARP's logo is on an ad that no one has seen?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Do you seriously think AARP is "lying" about this mailer?
Obviously, there WAS a mailer. It wasn't an "ad" it was a mailer sent to identified people on a mailing list.
AARP doesn't endorse candidates--any candidates--and they demanded that Sanders stop distributing that thing.
I am shocked at this double-down agression...AARP isn't lying, and this has nothing to do with any candidate EXCEPT Sanders.
As for the flyer, surely some Sanders supporter from IA has received this thing in their mailbox....
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)If we are supposed to get upset over the use of a logo we should at least be able to see the context in which the logo appeared.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Here's what happened.
The Sanders crew used an image that they weren't authorized to use, which created an association--an 'implied affiliation'--that did not exist.
Actually, they did this more than once--with AARP and LCV.
The agencies with rights to the logos called them out and told them to stop using the logos, and they did.
If you want to see the logo and how it was used, ya know who has it? The SANDERS campaign. They created it, they sent it out, and they got caught/called out because of it.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)The presence of a logo does not automatically imply an affiliation. I don't think it is too much to ask to see the ad before we judge it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And that rabid Weaver didn't come out spitting and swinging ... why?
I think because they a) Are guilty and b) Got caught.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I am sure not going to declare guilt without even seeing the most basic of evidence, if you are willing to do so it says a lot about you.
MADem
(135,425 posts)issued an aggressive press release.
I am going to "declare guilt" because I don't think AARP--who aren't endorsing ANYONE--made this up just to be mean to Bernie.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Clearly, the campaign misappropriated a couple of logos and got caught. I don't think LCV and AARP are "inventing" these Cease And Desist demands to be 'mean to Bernie.' All of this "Well, let's SEE it!!" demands are just strange--unless people think that LCV and AARP are inventing this imbroglio because Bernie is being 'victimized' by them. And anyone who does think that is not thinking clearly, IMO.
This, and the theft of data, and the infiltration of the union through deceit, does nothing to burnish the reputation of the campaign for honesty.
Sanders has some "anything to win" subordinates. They're not serving him well.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)If I am supposed to get upset over this ad then I should at least be able to see what I am supposed to get upset over.
I hate to break it to you Dan but asking for evidence does not make a person a conspiracy theorist.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Or maybe their press release person went rogue and just started typing at random. Who knows?
jillan
(39,451 posts)Then Go to Aarp.org and then go to Iowa and try to find it.
It's not there.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)No one is demanding that you get "upset" but you should be aware that your candidate (well, his people--but he gets the credit, and takes the blame) misappropriated two logos and used deceptive tactics to gain access to union workers.
Oh, and they swiped data too--and fired three people after they got caught.
Sanders' staff are willing to do anything to win, even cheat.
They don't behave well at all.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)They are not difficult to scan and put on the internet either.
It is not unreasonable to ask to see the ad and judge the context in which the logo was used for ourselves.
MADem
(135,425 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Makes no sense. You're going to have to get it from a Sandernista.
AARP told him "Stop using our shit." They're not going to wave it around further--the idea is to STOP publishing the association, not putting it out on the net for further distribution.
smh!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)The statement presents the issue as fact. But, were they given a copy or just told about it?
All I'm asking is for proof. It doesn't have to come from AARP, but surely someone out there can confirm this happened. Sanders, to my knowledge, hasn't commented on it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't, and I think it defies logic if anyone believes that was the case.
Frankly, if it didn't happen, I doubt that "Shrinking Violet" Weaver would sit back and not challenge Newsweek on their reporting. There'd have been an angry tweet out quicker than you could say "Misuse of a Logo."
There's a lovely image of the LCV misuse, here--the AARP one will show up eventually, I'm sure....
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/28/1476430/-Bernie-s-Campaign-In-Deep-Now
morningfog
(18,115 posts)They should not have included the logo, but the text was accurate.
I the AARP mailer exists, it will make it to the internet. It hasn't yet.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The campaign has been told to stop using it--so they can't publish it again.
AARP doesn't want to further promulgate any false idea of an association.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Or were they told and then released the statement?
I, too, doubt that AARP "made the whole thing up." But so far, no evidence has been produced that it actually happened.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)but I have 2 email accounts and get emails everyday from different sources with the campaign and I've never seen ANY logos in the emails. I've never even thought about them sending out mailers, I guess they do, but I get the impression they'd much rather do emails, just because it's more cost effective.
I'd also like to see a copy of this "mailer."
frylock
(34,825 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I think this is legit. I too want to see the mailer. It is supposedly a picture of AARP members supporting social security, wearing red t-shirts with an AARP logo on them. I think AARPs issue is with Sander's campaign even using their name, the logo and with the group affiliated with AARP.