Hopefully, it will have the same consequences (and for better reasons) as the "Dean Scream" of yore. k&r,

-app

like Goldman Sachs

...it's just that those things won't benefit anyone but her and her friends.

It may be able to be tweaked a little but that's just not good enough.

those fools who want their private health plan pay for it. Eventually, if the public plan is better, it will attract 80% of people. Trying to stuff Medicare for All down the throats of those that don't want it will fail, even if single payer is the best system. Besides, universal healthcare countries like Germany and France do fine without single payer.

It's too hard, we don't to start a new debate over health care....ultimately "the insurance companies won't let us do it."

They are doing everything they can to tamp down any expectations for that.

If Clinton gets in and goes against her campaign message and actually pushing for that, I'll support her in that for sure....But I'm not holding my breath

rather than thousands of pages of legislation. Too bad some of you are too myopic to see that. In any event, Sanders' fantasy has no chance anytime soon.

You seem to have a comprehension problem.

When and if that happens I will happily eat my words and support it.

But the operant message coming out of the Clinton Camp and its surrogates is No, No, No.....That's too hard.

...will you find anything about a public option.

Funny, that.

Sure doesn't seem like it.

cut healthcare expenditures from $3 trillion to 1.38 trillion like Sanders.

who says it won't ever, ever come to pass under her watch.

That's a serious problem among Sanders' supporters.

and one that your candidate often takes advantage of, thinking we won't notice the bait and switch.

I think we should all quit using the term universal and specifically say what it is we're talking about?

Was Hillary EVER for single payer, or just universal (mandated purchase of corporate insurance)? I've seen no evidence that she ever supported single payer.

The ACA is mostly a clusterfuck that does little except enrich the medical industry.

... that they want to get done. Draw your own conclusions.

Hillary never said that a single payer system can never be done at all - "never evah!" as some here keep insisting.

She said that Bernie's single payer plan will never make it through congress - and it wouldn't. As has been pointed out time and again, Bernie's plan is nebulous, lacks detail, and relies on too many assumptions that are just that - "assumptions" that may or may not hold true in reality.

Secondly, Hillary didn't "decide she didn't want to fight for it anymore", nor did she say "it's too hard to change the current system", nor has she "thrown up her hands.

The fact is that the current make-up of congress renders the passage of single payer an impossibility. The GOP have voted to repeal Obamacare over 50 times now - they are not going to suddenly embrace single payer just because Bernie says they should.

Lofty goals are nice - and make good soundbytes on the campaign trail. But reality has to be part of the mix - otherwise that's all it is - a soundbyte without substance.

She didn't outline an alternate plan, she nixed the entire idea as a pipe dream because: Republicans, and their third-way enablers.

AND YOU KNOW THAT.

And I understand your need to do so.

Hillary Clinton on Friday, January 29, 2016, commenting on Sanders' push for universal health care:

"People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."

I asked for the statements that led up to the quote - ya know, context and all.

What's this then?

First of all ... Hillary never said that a single payer system can never be done at all-- "never evah!" as some here keep insisting.

Here you go:

Clinton’s comments, which were made during an appearance at Grand View University in Iowa, were aimed at Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who has long championed the kind of government administered health care system used by many major industrialized nations. Of Sanders’ proposal, Clinton said on Friday: "People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass." The Kaiser Family Foundation’s December 2015 tracking poll found that 58 percent of Americans support expanding Medicare to cover everyone.

Clinton slammed the push for single-payer even though some of the major labor unions supporting her campaign have long cited that goal as a top legislative priority. Her comments also contrast with what she herself said in 1994 during remarks to the Lehman Brothers Health Corporation.

... this person is in your response.

Why is it so hard for Sanders camp to post all of what Hillary said?!

hmmmm

sigh, slightly different is not good enough

...since it makes a lot more sense that way.

If Hillary's quote doesn't mean what it appears to mean--as you and other Hillary supporters are claiming--why is it so hard for you to post all of what she said to make your case?

Extraordinary claims--such as claiming that Hillary didn't mean what she said--require extraordinary evidence.

All I'm stating is that Hillary said--and meant--what she said. It's your job, not mine, to prove otherwise.

Hope you, and those like you, educate yourself on the difference.

How if single payer will not make it through congress, that universal will. What was the first piece of legislation Speaker Munster pushed through once he took over.......oh yea repeal AHCA. Knowing the difference between helping the people and sucking up to insurance companies is not the issue according to the no we can't team.

unless you think she just lost her cool under the pressure of the campaign. if that's it, why not just say so.

and fyi re: "the current make up of congress"

all seats are up for reelection. Bernie is fighting for a sweeping victory by championing progressive issues popular with voters. maybe he can't carry congress with his platform, but if you want to ensure congress stays firmly under GOP control, by all means keep poo pooing popular progressive ideas and see how it turns out.

my guess it'll be like 2012 again and the pragmatic centrists can blame the left for not showing up to eat their shit sandwiches, when in fact it will be the middle and the disenfranchised that stay home while we hold our noses and cast our ballots.

Believe what you need to believe.

I appreciate how important that is tonight of all nights.

... many times.

Here's the problem: Where is the beginning of HRC's statements? I'm sure she didn't appear out of the ether and start her speech with, "People with medical emergencies can't wait ..."

Where is the rest of the clip? Where is the beginning of that speech? Where is the lead-up to what she said about single payer?

I tried Google, but can't find the full statement. But interestingly enough, when I tried the search words "Hillary says single payer will never, ever happen", the hits all led back to one source - DemocraticUnderground.

If you have a link to the full video, I'd appreciate it. I am always suspicious of clips that begin and end in the middle of what someone was saying. It's a little too FOX-News-ish for me.

I wonder why CNN had it on their site for less than a day before it somehow vanished and the only remaining video is one somebody got off of their tv with their phone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104663

"People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."

Now first I will point out that she did, indeed, use the words "that will never, ever come to pass" -- so you can save your snark on that score. I will also point out that, whether she was talking about Bernie's plan or about single payer in general, her statement clearly calls it a "better idea".

More importantly, she is again pretending that just having the debate will somehow cause people with health emergencies to not get care. Either that, or she is once again trying to promote the idea that Sanders would first repeal Obamacare, and then try and get single payer -- which anyone who is being honest knows is simply not true.

Most importantly, she clearly thinks we should not have the debate at all. Plain as day: she does not want to have that debate about single payer. Well, Hillary, a lot of us do want to have that debate. You fought the good fight, back in the day; hell, you even supported single payer back in the day. But now your so-called plan doesn't even talk about a public option. Not good enough, Hillary.

I have never disputed the quote. I've seen the video. I am fully equipped with eyes and ears.

What I am disputing is the idea that this quote simply arose out of nowhere, absent any context.

Where is the rest of this video clip - ya know, the part that leads up to and sets the context for the words "will never, ever come to pass"?

I think context is important. Apparently, some people don't.

...and her words are easy to understand.

We don't need to see what came before to see that (a) she is still trying to promote the idea that Bernie would scrap the ACA first, which NO ONE believes and which is fundamentally dishonest of her; (b) she does not want us to even have a debate about "some better idea" (which I, like you, assume means single payer); and (c) she really wants to emphasize to her audience that that better idea will never, ever come to pass. I am trying to imagine any context that would change the plain meaning of her words, without success.

You yourself have access to a single payer health care system. Do you like it? Or would you prefer our system, with millions uninsured, millions under-insured, out of control costs and a byzantine system that burdens doctors, companies and individuals with unmanageable amounts of paperwork, caveats, worries about coverage / in- or out-of-network / deductibles etc.?

.... and wish my fellow US citizens all had it.

"We don't need to see what comes before" doesn't cut it. Taking one selected quote out of the middle of a much longer speech may satisfy FOX-News adherents, but it doesn't satisfy me.

"I am trying to imagine any context that would change the plain meaning of her words, without success."

Seeing the FULL statement wouldn't require either of us to "imagine" what was meant, would it? That's the point.

...sincerely.

Nice evasion on the rest of it.

TTFN

... wanting to see a full statement - rather than a segregated single quote without context - an "evasion", that's unfortunate.

As I said, FOX-News does it all the time. Their audience doesn't require context either. That's how a Democrat saying "I don't believe my fellow citizens are bigots who hate immigrants" becomes "I don't believe my fellow citizens."

See how that works? So easy to take something out of context - so easy to fool idiots into thinking they've heard what they need to hear, instead of hearing what was actually said.

I'm a stickler for hearing an entire statement - not someone's edited version of a statement.

Apparently, you're satisfied with the edited version - I'm not.

... seeing a good portion of them think she's Satan

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511103341

She actually argued *against* it when she was pushing her plan in the 90s, threatening that, if her plan didn't get passed, we'd probably end up with single payer. And no one wants that, right?

And then trying to get Medicare for all passed.

"repealing ACA and then trying to get Medicare for all passed"

Some people here really have no shame. Clearly you are one of those people.

Even the MSM called out Chelsea Clinton for trying to peddle this lie.

for her.

generally in the Middle East and specifically in Syria and Egypt and Libya - nope, (3) 2008 nomination - nope, (4) putting email scandal behind her - nope, (5) policing Wall Street - nope, (6) establishing a consistent leadership position on the TPP - nope, (7) winning the trust of independents and young Democrats - nope, etc.

She fights with people - I'll give her that.

Because those with the money must have told her....no changes.

I haven't noticed much conviction in her words, her voice or any part of her. Not much at all.

There is just a doubtful, negative undertone to everything she does and says. She seems really beaten, tired and fatalistic.

We shall see what happens in the primaries, but I don't see how she can get anything won or done with the negativity in her voice, her mannerisms and her words. I just don't see it. Sorry.

Feel the Bern! It is strong, enthusiastic and infused with belief and conviction.

"if you vote Stein you're responsible for a war" say the hawks

nobody should listen to these types, they warp how people think, anesthetizing morality

is not necessarily the same as single payer.

We can't even get to universal health insurance with the current patchwork system, and we are unlikely to do so by tweaking it. Clinton doesn't even talk about a public option these days, and it is nowhere to be found on her web site.

Get back to me when you can describe how her "plan" (tweaks to the ACA) will actually get us to universal health CARE. Betcha can't.

I know what his ideas are, but what are his plans to actually achieve universal health care.

My response was to the title in the OP, which states that Hillary is no longer fighting for universal healthcare. That is untrue. She is no longer fighting for single payer, which is only one pathway to universal healthcare, but that does not mean that she has suddenly abandoned her lifelong goal to achieve universal healthcare in the US. Instead, she wants to continue improving on the ACA. Obamacare is far from perfect and far from universal, but it has the potential to be the start of universal healthcare.

In the current political climate we'll be lucky not to lose the ACA (a distinct possibility if we end up with a GOP president, given the GOP's dominance in Congress). With some future shifts in Congress, a Dem president might be able to continue tinkering on the ACA and get closer to universal coverage. What is not likely to happen, is for Congress to change to such an extent that single payer will become a reality.

You don't have to agree with that, obviously, but to say, as the OP did, that Hilary no longer wants to fight for universal health care, is simply false.

...so no I don't think she has any realistic plan to get us to universal health insurance much less universal health care.

Bernie's plan is outlined on his site:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

where you find many more details than you will on Hillary's site for her so-called plan, which is really tweaks to the totally inadequate system we have now. Sorry to say that -- I certainly supported the efforts to pass ACA, but it turned out to be even less than we thought at the time it passed.

If your question is, how would Bernie get it through Congress, well that problem is there for any Democratic President. Therefore I will go with the candidate who wants what I want, not the candidate who says we can't do any better anyway.

I guess the real difference between the candidates is that one of them still believes in the system we have now, and one of them believes our current system is broken (not just talking about health care policy here). Tomorrow will give us a clue as to whose ideas inspire more voters, at least in the state of Iowa.

I know what his plans are - I also know he has no way of getting anything passed. Neither does Hillary, but she at least has the possibility of tinkering with Obamacare if we can swing Congress around a bit in the next few years. We are far more likely to eventually achieve universal healthcare by building on Obamacare than by aiming to get single payer.

Demonizing her as no longer fighting for universal healthcare just because she is not offering a unicorn plan is patently unjust.

...simply relating factual information. Sorry that seems like demonizing to you.

You are the one indulging in hyperbole, when you say "just because she is not offering a unicorn plan".

Please. Get back to me when you are able to argue like an adult.

TTFN

I'm sorry you don't like the term "unicorn" - it is merely shorthand for unrealistic. To go from that to suggesting that I don't argue like an adult, is just plain rude. I did not attack you personally. I also did not say that you are demonizing her. Your response was to my response to the OP, which says that Hillary is no longer fighting for universal healthcare. Since that is a complete lie, it is demonizing her. She is no longer fighting for one particular approach to universal healthcare, that is all.

Goodbye.

and jobs to Mexico and Asia. We already have one political party doing that, though, so I guess it wasn't really that hard of a fight. I admit that she brought a uniquely conservative perspective to the Democratic Party.

increments-given the make-up our Congress. It is better to achieve small steps forward--than nothing at all. Even Sanders has said it would take a Political Revolution. How long will that take???

...we've been tip toeing for much too long and it has gotten us to a system that still has millions uninsured and many, many more millions severely under-insured and unable to use their insurance for actual health care. In other words, we don't even have universal health INSURANCE; we are so far from universal health CARE it would be laughable if it were not tragic.

Here we are, the USA, the wealthiest nation ever, the Colossus of the world, and we can't achieve what nearly every other country has managed to do for their citizens: provide them with universal health CARE.

And Hillary's non-plan does not even include a public option.

Please describe HOW Hillary's plan will get us to universal health CARE.

for the health-insurance companies and Big Pharma.

#millionairelivesmatter

support single payer, universal healthcare again. We just need to pony up the money. Any takers?

Thanks for the thread, Avalux.

HillaryCare didn't work out

Okay, let's just get that out of the way - it will never, EVER EVER HAPPEN. Okay? Sheezus.

Universal can be corporate or a government single payer, very different. Seems to me the title should have specified single payer, which is what we want. The health insurance corporations are primarily the problem.

Did Hillary ever support single payer? I actually don't know, anyone out there know?

That system would not have been single payer, but would have required ins. cos. to cover every single American. After that, she did support single payer, so as with other issues, she morphs.

Hillary, circa 2008:

"If you don’t start out trying to get universal health care, we know--and our members of Congress know--you’ll never get there. If a Democrat doesn’t stand for universal health care that includes every single American, you can see the consequences of what that will mean. It is imperative that we have plans, as both John and I do, that from the very beginning say, “You know what? Everybody has got to be covered.” There’s only three ways of doing it. You can have a single-payer system, you can require employers, or you can have individual responsibility. My plan combines employers and individual responsibility, while maintaining Medicare and Medicaid. The whole idea of universal health care is such a core Democratic principle that I am willing to go to the mat for it. I’ve been there before. I will be there again. I am not giving in; I am not giving up; and I’m not going to start out leaving 15 million Americans out of health care."

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Health_Care.htm

I don't have time at the moment to read the article, gotta go pick up my kid. The quote you listed says nothing about her supporting single payer, did she ever do so?

Medicare is a single payer system, and she would have expanded it.

Can you blame candidates for giving up when former dnc leadership gave up years ago?

We peons can fuck off, die, and reduce the surplus population.