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kennetha

(3,666 posts)
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:23 PM Feb 2016

Bernie Sanders on Economic Growth vs Economic Justice

In interview with CNBC way back in May, Sanders said the following:

HARWOOD: If the changes that you envision in tax policy, in finance, breaking up the banks, were to result in a more equitable distribution of income, but less economic growth, is that trade-off worth making?
SANDERS: Yes. If 99 percent of all the new income goes to the top 1 percent, you could triple it, it wouldn't matter much to the average middle class person. The whole size of the economy and the GDP doesn't matter if people continue to work longer hours for low wages and you have 45 million people living in poverty. You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on. People scared to death about what happens tomorrow. Half the people in America have less than $10,000 in savings. How do you like that? That means you have an automobile accident, you have an illness, you're broke. How do you retire if you have less than $10,000, and you don't have much in the way of Social Security?



Seems like the guy really does want to convert the US Economy into a European economy. Many European economies have very large safety-nets, far less economic inequality, and higher marginal tax rates, and a broader range of taxes -- think things like VAT gasoline taxes, etc. But European economies are, for the most part, far less dynamic than the US economy, with much lower growth.

It's not an unreasonable thing to want to trade economic growth for economic justice. But personally, I want an economy that is both just and dynamic. A just economy without growth would not be a pretty sight. You think unemployment is bad at times in America, compare historical rates of American unemployment with historical rates of unemployment in much of Europe. Not a pretty picture. On the other hand, a growing economy without justice is not a pretty sight either. It concentrates more and more in the hands of fewer and fewer.

But call me naive, I want a political economic vision that promises to reconciles economic dynamism and social justice. That's what democrats should be standing for. We shouldn't be poo-pooing growth in the way that Sanders does. In America, which has been long distinguished by its economic dynamism, that's a losing proposition. It's no basis for a revolution. It's a basis for defeat.

Growth matters. Justice matters. We democrats can deliver both. To say that we can't have both and that we have to chose between them is a false dichotomy.
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Bernie Sanders on Economic Growth vs Economic Justice (Original Post) kennetha Feb 2016 OP
"Economic dynamism" is in many opinion pieces these days. Democrats_win Mar 2016 #1

Democrats_win

(6,539 posts)
1. "Economic dynamism" is in many opinion pieces these days.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:47 PM
Mar 2016

Newspaper columns are talking about how there are so few new start-ups these days. The conservatives say that there is too much uncertainty in the system--It's as if Romney is still running for president--and we need less regulation. Could it be that people who might start new companies are already in too much debt to start a company?

The state of our economy: inequality and the lack of "economic dynamism" is a big deal. But gosh, didn't we drop hundreds of billions of dollars out of a helicopter on rich people? (Check out the FRED's graph of M1 or M2 they've been climbing since 2008. Then look at FRED's velocity of money chart--it's decreasing! The Fed thinks that rich people might be hoarding money. The velocity of money tells how much money moves around the economy) The current reality is very complex and conventional economics is truly clueless. There's trouble in "River City" and everyone knows it. They need to find a way to give money to poor people. Then watch our economy grow and grow! And who cares about inequality as long as everyone can buy the necessities again?

M2 supply of money:
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2SL

Velocity of money:
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V

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