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CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:24 PM Feb 2016

Why We Shouldn’t Give a Damn Who Wins the Iowa Caucuses

Regardless of which candidate wins in Iowa tonight, it's going to be close and we really don't know who will be victorious. For that reason this post is not a jab in the ribs of a particular candidate, so please don't don't take it that way. My problem is with the Iowa caucus process. There are number ways in which states pick their choices to be the Presidential nominees. Several states use the caucus system, but I view Iowa's caucus procedures as particularly problematic.

In days gone by, political insiders in each state picked their delegates in the proverbial "smoke filled rooms" leaving ordinary party members completely out of the process. When decisions were made to make the process of nominating Presidential candidates more democratic, some states wanted to maintain some vestiges of the old process so that political insiders could retain some semblance of control. So they expended the size of the smoke filled rooms and invited regular party members to join them. In an effort to limit participation to just those who had a particular interest in the party's future, they made the selection a lot more cumbersome and time consuming than simply filling out a ballot.

My main problem with caucuses in general is that the process results are not necessarily representative of the desires of voting population of a state as a whole and it makes voting difficult on purpose. It reminds me in some ways of the stunts Republicans have been pulling to limit voter participation.

Article: Why We Shouldn’t Give a Damn Who Wins the Iowa Caucuses

(snip)

First you have to understand how both of the major parties go about selecting Iowa’s delegates to their national Presidential conventions. On caucus evening, usually starting about 7:00 pm local, voters in each of Iowa’s 1,774 precincts will begin to file into their Democratic or Republican caucus locations. There they will socialize, discuss who should get their votes, and hear speeches made by the representatives of each of the major candidates. Then, using their precinct’s local procedures, they will cast their votes for the candidates of their choice. It is the tabulation of these votes which will make nation news, but at this point the selection process for Iowa’s Democratic and Republican Party delegates to their national conventions has not even begun.

After the initial voting for Presidential contenders, the caucus attendees will also vote to select one delegate to represent their precinct at their party’s county convention which is to be held in March. On the Democratic side each of the 99 county conventions in turn select delegates to their district conventions which in turn choose delegates to the state convention. It is at the Democratic Party state convention in June that Iowa’s delegates to the national Democratic convention are chosen. The Republicans skip district convention step with their county delegates going directly to the state Republican convention which will also be held in June. Hence the direct votes for the Presidential candidates at the Iowa precinct caucuses are divorced from the processes used to choose the Democratic and Republican delegates to their respective nation conventions.

Another huge problem with the caucus system is how few people will actually attend the Iowa precinct caucuses and cast votes the evening of February 1st. In order to be able to attend a precinct caucus a voter must be a registered member of their party. In 2012 only about 20% of registered Democrats and 20% of the registered Republicans in Iowa attended their party’s precinct caucuses, but the actual attendance in the caucuses is far lower than that. In 2012, 31.5% of Iowans were registered Democrats and 31.2% were registered Republicans. The rest, 36.3% of voters, were registered as having “no party” and thus they could attend neither the Republican nor the Democratic caucuses. If you do the math, in 2012 only about 12.9% of the registered voters in Iowa took part in the Democratic and Republican caucuses and voted for the Presidential candidates of their choice.

The bottom line is that the population of Iowa makes ups less than one half of 1% of the nation’s voters and less 13% of the registered voters in the state bother to vote in the Iowa caucuses. In addition, that voting is divorced from the actual process by which Iowa delegates to the Democratic and Republican national conventions are chosen and that process will not be concluded until four months later. The only thing Iowa has going for it is that its caucuses are the first Presidential selection process in the nation. It’s well that Iowa has that distinction because otherwise no one would care a great deal how Iowans vote in their caucuses.


Why We Shouldn’t Give a Damn Who Wins the Iowa Caucuses

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Why We Shouldn’t Give a Damn Who Wins the Iowa Caucuses (Original Post) CajunBlazer Feb 2016 OP
So once every four years... LakeVermilion Feb 2016 #1
Yea, and just think of all the money the candidates spend.... CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #5
Last week, you were telling us Hillary would kick ass in Iowa. Yesterday, she "might win". DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2016 #2
I still think that Hillary will win - but I still think no body... CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #7
The more I learn about the "sausage-making" process of the Iowa caucuses ... NurseJackie Feb 2016 #3
I love how the goal posts move EVERY caucus cycle, no matter who the candidate is. EOM. DaGimpster Feb 2016 #4
If bernie wins, it's a big deal; if it's very close, it's a big deal alcibiades_mystery Feb 2016 #6
You're only talking about DU, right? CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #9
No, real world alcibiades_mystery Feb 2016 #11
That is true, all because of the expectations game. morningfog Feb 2016 #17
"it's going to be close " NCTraveler Feb 2016 #8
Come now, I was trying be nice.... CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #10
Well said. MineralMan Feb 2016 #12
One thing I'll bet, the people of Iowa will be happy after tonight kimbutgar Feb 2016 #13
Even without TV its bad. bunnies Feb 2016 #19
In principle, I agree.. but reality is much different. basselope Feb 2016 #14
I have studied the situation some and I don't see how Clinton loses to Trump CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #16
Are we seeing different polls? basselope Feb 2016 #18
Btw, you can register at the caucuses. jeff47 Feb 2016 #15
Oh for the love of God.. there are no smoke filled rooms at caucus Peacetrain Feb 2016 #20

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
5. Yea, and just think of all the money the candidates spend....
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:40 PM
Feb 2016

commercials, hotel and restaurant bills, printing, etc. etc. The caucuses are worth tens, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars to Iowa ever 4 years.

This time around is extra lucrative because both parties have contested nominations. $$$$$$$

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
2. Last week, you were telling us Hillary would kick ass in Iowa. Yesterday, she "might win".
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:33 PM
Feb 2016

And now, it's no longer important.

At least I understand a little about your statement in support of Ted Cruz, but I still vehemently disagree with you.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
7. I still think that Hillary will win - but I still think no body...
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:42 PM
Feb 2016

... should much gave a damn, especially since the delegates will be split. It is really only about bragging rights.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
3. The more I learn about the "sausage-making" process of the Iowa caucuses ...
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:34 PM
Feb 2016

... the less I like it.

I'm sure it's very exciting and great fun for those who are able to participate. But for those who can't (because of the logistics of how caucuses work, and the hour that they occur) it really does seem to be an process that is designed to exclude rather than to include.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
6. If bernie wins, it's a big deal; if it's very close, it's a big deal
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:42 PM
Feb 2016

If Hillary wins by 5+%, it's not a big deal.

If O'Malley wins, it's the biggest deal ever.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
12. Well said.
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:50 PM
Feb 2016

The reality is that Iowa will be close. In the end, both Hillary and Sanders will get about the same number of delegates from Iowa at the national convention. It will be nearly a wash.

Iowa is only important symbolically, really. It won't affect the nomination process much at all. Some say it's all about momentum going forward. I say, "Bunkum!" Each state has it's own caucuses or primaries and each state has its own point of view.

Iowa will be a wash. Iowa doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of presidential politics.

kimbutgar

(21,163 posts)
13. One thing I'll bet, the people of Iowa will be happy after tonight
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:52 PM
Feb 2016

That there will be no more political TV commercials, calls, flyers and people knocking not their doors hawking some candidate.

I live in California but those early states must be awful to live in. You almost got to stop watching tv.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
19. Even without TV its bad.
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 02:23 PM
Feb 2016

Cant turn on a damn radio station either. One week and one day for me. Cant come soon enough.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
14. In principle, I agree.. but reality is much different.
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:02 PM
Feb 2016

The Iowa caucuses are a game-able system that doesn't have a large representation, due to the nature of how it works. You can't just show up any time throughout the day, cast a vote and walk away.. you need to clear your schedule and be prepared for a long night.. not everyone is willing to do that.

HOWEVER, there are two major things to consider.

#1) Iowa is the perfect place for Bernie to show that his national strategy can work. Getting people excited about REAL ideas in a campaign and talking about the REAL issues will get them involved in the political process. IF people hear Bernie's message in Iowa (and by now everyone in Iowa has heard it 3 times) and still decide to stay home, then it likely doesn't work on a national level.

#2) If Clinton wins, even by .001%, she is declare the winner and a win in New Hampshire means very little for Bernie since VT is next door. He loses all chance at momentum. He will get enough delegates to make NOISE and the convention, but that is likely it, as he won't have enough delegates to win, especially with the Super Delegates going to Clinton.


I am terrified of this outcome, because while I will hold my nose and vote for Clinton.. I believe Trump will easily defeat her in the general election.

I don't see ANY way she beats him, because if you look at state polling right now, he is beating her in very key states and I don't believe she has the ability to take on Trump. Bernie has authenticity on his side and that is something Trump has a very hard time fighting against.

CajunBlazer

(5,648 posts)
16. I have studied the situation some and I don't see how Clinton loses to Trump
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:39 PM
Feb 2016

You talk about holding your nose, establishment Republicans are going to need large clothespins on theirs. I have talked to some who say the will not vote for Trump. (of course I have talked to Democrat who say there is now way they will vote or Bernie, so...)

The Republicans have done their darnedest to topple Hillary and, while they have damaged her some, but she is still ahead of Trump in most state head to head polls. In Trump and Cruz the establishment Republicans have two strange birds that they don't want representing their party and they sure don't want to clean up the disaster they might face if either of them is elected. So some Republicans might just set on their hands in November. Bob Dole has publicly said that he is sleeping in on election day if Cruz wins the nomination.

That's why the Republicans want a totally unconventional candidate to represent the Democrats - its the only way they can see to win. That is why Republicans PAC's are spending millions of dollars on adds repeating Bernie's talking points in

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
18. Are we seeing different polls?
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 02:21 PM
Feb 2016

Most of the polls I have seen in critical states have Trump beating Hillary.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_clinton-5635.html
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_12016.pdf (Gives Trump an edge in a head to head in North Carolina and that is from PPP which leans left)

Most other polls of states were done in November or before and have little meaning, but the ones done in January lean towards Trump.

Here's the difference... establishment republicans turn out, even if they are holding their nose to do it. Low voter turnout = GOP victory.. we all know that.

I don't see how Clinton is going to get high voter turnout.. there is just no real excitement around her candidacy. She's just ANOTHER in a long line of politicians who offer nothing different.

Trump bucks that trend, so while the GOP establishment will show up for him, because they are more reliable voters, he will ALSO get those crazy people to show up as well.

Cruz doesn't scare me at all... Trump does.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
15. Btw, you can register at the caucuses.
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:08 PM
Feb 2016
In 2012, 31.5% of Iowans were registered Democrats and 31.2% were registered Republicans. The rest, 36.3% of voters, were registered as having “no party” and thus they could attend neither the Republican nor the Democratic caucuses.

You can register or change your registration at the caucus.

So those "no party" voters can still caucus. They'll have to register for the duration of the caucus, and then re-register "no party" later.

There's plenty of other problems with caucuses, like must be in-person at 7pm means no one who works a night shift gets to vote.

Peacetrain

(22,877 posts)
20. Oh for the love of God.. there are no smoke filled rooms at caucus
Mon Feb 1, 2016, 02:31 PM
Feb 2016

Any registered Democrat can participate.. now Independents or Republicans etc.. cannot caucus and pick our candidate.. that is what this is about.. its not a damn general election.. it is about Democrats picking their own candidate.. and we do not do that winner take all crapola.. because.. all of the candidates are in there have strengths..and we try to pull as much strength from all the candidates.. someone is going to win because more Iowans believe they can get the job done..

This is party business..

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