(He ripped the "do not remove under penalty of law" tags from his mattress, you know.)

Is when he used the accounts and descriptions on a major league game without the express written consent of the commissioner.

You have no op without starting here.

"I find these posts to be so absurd."

Are posts people? I tend to think of them as the expression of ideas. Now of course ideas don't really exist without people to think about them, at least I don't think they do.
https://m.

Thanks. I would agree that as of late posts seem to be made by computerized word generators. Maybe you are on to something.

Of course they're having fits, they did the same thing to Obama here.

are projecting the hate that the have on others. I welcome their hatred.

Who in hell is going to change their vote from Bernie to Hillary based on that?

... racially vile things about Obama that has come out of peoples mouths.

Their words should play real well in SC...

... in the mouth (figuratively) like Sanders has will get set the DNC back a couple of elections.

Since Sanders isn't proffering anything practically different to get HIS OWN agenda past congress Sanders Obama criticism looks petulant at best

I think you miss the premise of the OP.

... based off the facts.

I don't know if I'd invite someone like that to my house

As for West, I can't comment, because I don't share his experiences in any meaningful way. I can only assume that he felt profoundly let down by the president.

As for Bernie Sanders, I know of nothing he has said about the President that wasn't specifically directed at his policy ideas. If you would provide links to Sanders' words you find offensive I would like to read them.

Some brief (by no means thorough) thoughts of mine on Obama's policies:

I think Obama has done some great things like getting the millions more Americans access to health insurance, championing marriage equality, brokering a peaceful agreement with Iran in an attempt to deescalate a volatile situation and so far keeping us from getting completely tangled in the Syrian conflict.

But I am disappointed that Wall Street banks are even bigger and more consolidated then they were before the bailout, that SS cutes were offered up as part of a Grand Bargain, that OWS was violently suppressed and that he is pushing TTP.

I see the reduction of the debate to "who said mean things about who" as the deliberate avoidance of the discussing of issues. It has appeared to be a tactic of the Clinton campaign at least since the SC debate. If you disagree with Sen. Sanders ideas that's fine, but to base your decision on how some of his supporters have expressed their opposition to Obama's policies seems shortsighted to me.

... a sec... I'll post again...

... because of policy differences its LITERALLY because he was slighted on some seating preferences at Obama's 2nd inauguration... no... that's the reason ... google it

Bigga on the other hand reminds me of the rest of the left... willing to stomp out adequate or workable for prefect or good and act as if the historically gerrymandered congress doesn't effect policy decisions or direction of the country.

So in essence many people, especially blacks (I'm one), feel as if a good portion of the criticism lobbied at Obama from the left is unfair at best... and leaves out the narrative of congress and its influence on decisions and policies.

People expected Obama to be the FDR president without the FDR (70% average dem over 16 years) congress... including Sanders who should know better.

On the banks...

I don't agree that these banks should pose so much of a threat to Americas economy... but...I understand Obama's decision NOT to spend his WHOLE TERM in office fixing 20 years of legislation that allowed for this... His fight was the ACA... NOT unwinding generations of banking laws.

On TPP...

Obama gets an F on this for message at the least, he shouldn't have asked Americans to trust the government again after NAFTA... that's tone deaf... he aint perfect....

OWS

I have no idea if he was involved but my understanding was he supported the sentiment of that movement


ALL of this IMHO are rational critcisms of Obama

Calling Obama a "House Slave" or saying he "n-word-izzed" the white house as West and Bigga have done put in context the disdain that some feel Sanders has towards Obama... and it sounds like from afar its coming from the Sanders "revolution" vs a real ground swell from most democrats

There's a reason why Sanders is still polling the high teens with blacks after 7 months in SC...

So... the "name calling" in regards to Obama means a lot in context of unfair, over the top petulant criticisms... lobbied from the left.

I agree with Sanders policies overall, I don't agree with the moral grounds of burning what has been built down...

I don't think he has any

Or O'Malley? I like O'Malley but feel that Bernie has a long proven track record on issues that matter to me and O'Malley is relatively green. To be honest, I was looking for Bernie to run well before he announced.

Although Hillary is clearly a better alternative to anything the GOP has to offer, I simply do not see Hillary as advancing anything meaningful in terms of a liberal or progressive agenda. I think it's best to push hardest for the best policies, and don't see how that in any way is stomping out the workable. I think it's bad bargaining to start in the middle - we've been doing that for far too long.

I'm a middle-aged (50) white man who grew up very white. My elementary school did not have a single black student until I was in the 6th grade when one black student attended. In HS there were 3 out of about 1000. As an adult I had someone I thought was a friend threaten to burn down my house when I asked him how he felt about my renting to a college student (white) who had a Jamaican boyfriend.

I can't say I understand the world from your point of view, but I think I am pretty attuned to dog whistle politics. To my ear Hillary blew the dog whistle many times in 2008 and before when her husband was president. I heard it again when she said to the Black Lives Matter activists that if that's what they want she would only talk to white people. Her dog whistles are one of the main reasons I do not support her.

I also see Bernie as a guy who has never employed divisiveness as a means of attracting support. I honestly don't get the idea that Hillary is a better choice for African Americans than Bernie, but that's from a pretty white point of view.

Sorry, if this a detour in the original convo, and thanks for a thoughtful reply.

.. in this context then?

I'm not hearing lets build on what Obama has done from Sanders I hear lets get rid of Obama and the rest of em (the establishment) and start all over with the leverage of the people.

The last part grates me to no end; the gerrymandered congress doesn't care about the people ... they don't have to.

The GOPs in congress can LITERALLY burn down a pediatric oncology ward on prime time TV with painted Joker Face and still be elected BACK into their seats.

The digitally and historically gerrymandered GOP congress DOES NOT HAVE TO LIFT A FINGER... there's only been one time in US history where the GOP congress has been this gerrymandered.

That is what is left out of the Sanders narrative in his criticisms of Obama and the establishment; the "establishments" bona fide up hill battle in getting anything done ... along with not proffering a way to get past this congress

I would support Sanders 200% if he proposed a way they could've gotten legislation past the GOP congress after 2010 and pushed that from there...

Hell, I don't think Clinton would've even ran if Sanders was the one screaming of a LEGISLATIVE way to go around congress and helped Obama with this instead of proposing a primary challenge to him.

There wasn't a way around them outside of unilateral measures because after 2010 America TECHINCALLY no longer had a representative government due to GOP gerrymandering.

That's what the establishment and Obama had to deal with... so I can understand them starting in the middle.... that's all they had !!!!

and no, Hillary isn't 100% better for black folk not in the long run... people know this... but she has a relationship that goes way back and a connection with the guy those guys seem to chide often and unfairly... which explains some of the forgiveness for Hillary's horrid 2008 comments.

Bottom line I would at least hear the Bern if it didn't SEEM so set on unfairly running asunder what has been gained so far

for what Obama has accomplished. I think we can do more and I hope we can do it together. Peace.

"The ups and downs in peoples’ feelings, particularly on the liberal side, are an old, old story. The liberals always get discouraged when they do not see the measures they are interested in go through immediately. Considering the time we have had to work in the past for almost every slight improvement, I should think they might get over with it, but they never do."

Ma, these potatoes are a little dry.
WHY DO YOU HATE ME??!

I would suggest to him or her that Obama, having served two terms, is not eligible to run again. Kennedy is eligible, but well, I don't think he's likely to be in the race any time soon.

But if they do wind up on my ballot, I'd happily take either as primary choices over Hillary Clinton.

Note that Bernie Sanders has had a very successful recent visit to Minnesota, for example, which votes a bit later on the calendar. I think it's fair to read that as Sanders' intent to make this a long race.

where he discussed his thoughts on a sitting President not relevant? It shows it's thought process how he came to some of his ideas. You can hardly consider that discussing people.

excerpt:

Those are ideas, that's who Bernie is, that's where he came from. Why you would want to dismiss that out of hand is beyond me. We didn't dismiss where Obama came from what made him who he is. Not everyone is going to agree, but I'm sure many will. It's certainly a discussion worth having probably an interesting one at that. Imagine how many people are old enough to chime in with a personal perspective.

I'm really baffled as to why this is being considered a criticism & why you'd want to shut it down. Bernie gave the interview, obviously he didn't mind people knowing and discussing it.

As for discussing 'people' Here's a thread, with a picture. Nothing more. Just. a. picture. Which garnered 117 comments & 56 recs. Talk about discussing people and not ideas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251954125

so long as it's not framed as some sort of attack on the person. his statements are a critique of the politics, not an attack on the person that was Kennedy. There has been a concerted effort by some to frame this criticism and criticism of Obama as personal when they are anything but that.

They're not lounging around the pool eating doritos and giving each other foot rubs.

Things that are shut down here get a lot of traction out in the real world, I've noticed.