2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumFor the FIRST TIME in US History a woman wins the Iowa Caucus!
Great job Team HRC! Lets bring home the victory! #Herstory
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)They might have "pledged" that they will support her, which is not the same thing as a "pledged delegate" (which are ONLY awarded through primaries and caucuses). Superdelegates can change their mind at any time.
You don't get to count superdelegates as part of some "margin of victory" in a primary or caucus vote. That is dishonest, and not even technically true.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)....Hillary tried the ol' 'LOOK AT ALL MY SUPERDELEGATES!!!' in '08. They didn't stick with her then, did they?
Plus it just sounds tone-deaf to trumpet 'elite' delegates over voters. But hey, you do you!
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Then why is Hillary spending so much money? You know, if they are in the bag already?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)We may be seeing herstory repeating itself.
I truly hope not, for the nation's sake.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)On Tue Feb 2, 2016, 11:30 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Where have I seen this before?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1118217
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Okay, I know emotions are running high right now, but really.. None of our 3 candidates are as evil as that clown, and should not be compared to him.
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senz
(11,945 posts)Gee, you'd think the "winners" would be a little less prickly.
riversedge
(70,299 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)To the greatest!
Matariki
(18,775 posts)It's a tie. But she did great and I'm happy for the historic accomplishment. It's going to be a long couple months!
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)By a hair
Matariki
(18,775 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)among others.
Here's NPR: Clinton Edges Sanders In Iowa Democratic Caucuses; Cruz Wins On GOP Side
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/02/465193561/cruz-wins-iowa-republican-caucus-clinton-sanders-still-too-close-to-call
The Des Moines Register: Democrats missing 1 precinct, with Clinton as victor
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2016/02/02/some-democratic-precinct-results-unaccounted/79682184/
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She needs to be patient and not just grab. The decision is not official.
It is unseemly for Hillary to declare herself the winner until it is official.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Sheesh... Of all the most rifpdiculous complaints. There is ONE outstanding precinct. Clinton won this. It was narrow, but she won.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If so, the intent of the voters should be respected and those contests should be allocated three wins to Hillary and three to Bernie.
And if it turns out to be a tie, so be it.
The intent of the participants in the caucuses should be respected, not a coin toss result.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 2, 2016, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)
that's apparently the rule. Kinda weird.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)"unseemly for Hillary to declare herself the winner" when the IA Dem Party, not Hillary, that has said so. ???
What is a joke - and a disgrace, IMO - is for supposed Democrats to make snarky remarks about Clinton on a Democratic website just because their candidate was not declared the winner by the IA Dem Party. I would not be making such remarks about Bernie if it were the other way around.
We had three excellent candidates. I am very sorry that MOM suspended his campaign because his ideas are every bit as progressive as Bernie's and his environmental proposals are the best of the three, IMO. But for me, he doesn't yet have the foreign policy gravitas or persona that I believe is necessary in this incredibly complex world. Bernie doesn't either. Voting against the IWR (which I agree was a great thing) is not a foreign policy. Listing foreign policy experts who haven't actually been "consulted" and aren't even sure why they're listed isn't a foreign policy. On-the-job learning in that area especially is no longer a luxury we can afford - if we really ever could.
While I love a lot of what he is saying, I know how things work in real life and it takes a person who has the full respect and support of the people that person must work with. It is quite telling that of all the Dems in both Houses of Congress, only two have endorsed Bernie so far. While some Bernie supporters may - unfairly, IMO - blame Hillary for this, it is telling that they prefer to work with her rather than with him.
Lasting change does not come with "revolution." Lasting change comes in increments. Revolution leaves chaos in its wake and in any leadership vacuum as usually happens with chaos, it is usually a despot who takes over, even if that despot begins with the best of intentions. Think French Revolution and Napoleon; think Russian Revolution and Lenin/Stalin; think of the breakup of the USSR, the chaos of the 1990s in Russia and the - practically inevitable - rise of Putin (who is actually revered in Russia right now, whatever we may think of him).
Of the three candidates, I believe that Hillary is the best comprehensively qualified candidate - able to step into the job on Day 1 and make it work as well as it ever has (which isn't saying much, given our dysfunctional system). While I like, admire and respect Bernie, I just don't see that happening.
I am sure that you disagree. But I hope that we can simply agree to disagree and not use snark.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)They should divide the results of the coin tosses. If there were six coin tosses, three should go to Hillary and three to Bernie. Because my suggestion would represent the intent of the voters, and that is what elections are about.
2. Again, it is the intent of the voters that should determine whether Bernie wins, not the intent of politicians already seated in Congress and elsewhere. If we decided elections based on what sitting politicians wanted for the outcome, we could just do away with voters and let the sitting politicians decide. Democracy is about letting the voters, the people decide, and not about perpetuating the status quo byr letting the sitting politicians decide. Let the voters decide. I think the superdelegate system is a travesty of democracy. It should be abolished.
3. I agree with you that violent revolutions are horrible things. The French Revolution became violent and resulted in the rise of Napoleon. But Bernie is not suggesting a violent revolution. His supporters would not have the means or methods to conduct a violent revolution in this country. If you want violence, you have to look to the extreme right, not to the left at this time in America. We support gun control, not armed revolution. Bernie is talking about a democratic revolution. By "revolution" he means more voter and citizen participation not just in elections but in letting our voices and opinions be heard in governments from local to state to federal levels BETWEEN ELECTIONS. Think about the mid-term elections. We get low voter turn-out and Republicans win. That is happening over and over. Bernie's use of the word "revolution" means that we have drastic change with regard to political participation. I'm all for it. The word is a bit dramatic, but it certainly captures the change that needs to occur.
Actually, I think Bernie is the best qualified candidate. He was elected mayor of Burlington over and over and over and over. After his first term, he was elected by a good margin (suggesting voters were happy with his governance) and he DOUBLED voter turn-out. That is what his wife explained in a television interview last week. Thus, Bernie has more CEO or management experience in government than Hillary. Further, Bernie has served in Congress since 1992. That's a long time. Hillary has nowhere near that experience in Congress. Thus we can assume that Bernie knows the members of Congress (Budget committee, Veteran's committee, energy committee and others), knows how Congress works and in fact knows Congress better than any president since maybe Ford. Obama was in Congress only a short time. Hillary has spent only maybe six years at the most in Congress. Hillary was in the White House, but if she is taking credit for Bill's bills, the ones he signed like Welfare Reform, the sentencing act that increased sentences and has proved disastrous for minority communities, the repeal of Glass-Steagall the "reform" of the Commodity Futures Act, the bill that promoted consolidation of the media, etc., I don't think she should be elected. They were all bad, really bad measures. Hillary was Secretary of State, but . . . . ISIS. Need I say more. She made some good, but also some terrible decisions as Sec. of State. She said positive things about the TPP -- which will hurt working Americans. She said positive things about H1-B visas which also hurt working Americans.
In short, Bernie's experience is far, far better than Hillary's. And it shows in his focus and his speeches. Bernie is the winning candidate. If we do not nominate him, we are in for trouble in November. You read it here. I'm very firm in my conviction that we need to nominate and elect Bernie Sanders. And as you can see, my conviction is based on reason and not just on emotion.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)One of the states Bernie needed yo win to stay competitive. The demographics are right up his alley: 95% white state filled with college campuses.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)welcome back.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)and all she has to show for it is a tie and a coin toss.
We'll see how the next month plays out. But we can toss bravado to pass the time
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)Just like Jeb.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)She then went on to break fundraising records and her campaign said that money was used to invest in the next caucus states i.e. offices, staff.
riversedge
(70,299 posts)Flying Phoenix
(114 posts)between fundraisers and the debates before the next vote.
10% of what, 110 milion raised is what, 11 million? Bet that 10% is already spent and running a debt.
Bernie, on the other hand, just raised $20M in all of January and is doing fine, financially-wise, plus he has organizations in Super Tuesday states. Clinton barely has anything going.
Her SuperPACs can only do so much without "coordination".
angrychair
(8,733 posts)He was losing in every polling average, every political pundit, every partisan hack from WaPo to DU, said he would lose by large margins. The polls walking in the doors said he would lose by 5 or points. All from a campaign that started in Iowa with a 60 point lead. From a campaign that had 90% of it's resources split between Iowa and their New York campaign headquarters. That had previous experience campaigning in Iowa.
All that being said, the best they could muster, with all that money, experience and media slant, was the tightest caucus results in Iowa state Democratic Party history.
Bernie Sanders has become the first Jewish person to be awarded delegates in a caucus or primary for POTUS in US history.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)angrychair
(8,733 posts)RCP avg was Clinton +4
Huff Post avg was Clinton +4
FiveThirtyEight was Clinton +3.2 (MoM at 5.1% of vote which wasn't even close)
Sanders was working off a 60 pt deficit.
Despite starting in a losing position, he achieved a statistical tie (50/50) for a lot less money. It was a victory, no matter the spin.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)A woman who knows nothing about real women.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)On Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:02 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Gag.
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Over the top. Disruptive.
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Would you think it was ridiculous if you switched the words woman with the word black or jew?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)No matter what their socioeconomic status are oppressed.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Nice to see Bernie finally venturing outside his usual Vermont to DC roundtrip.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Tell us again about your maids and landscapers and money overseas. You still feel oppressed? And yet you vote to keep your money and leave others without health care?
I'd say more but DU doesn't allow it.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)What do you think the media (and some here) would say about a female candidate with disheveled hair who just shouted angrily and waved her arms around?
And again, women are oppressed no matter their socioeconomic status.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)quickly shrinking.
I don't think the majority of the country actually cares. Nor do we care what the media says. First time I've turned my tv on in months and I really didn't need to after all. The results on online were actually faster.
I am proud Bernie doesn't succumb to dying hair and make up like Hillary has. We should all be free to be who we actually are.
And YOU are not oppressed. You just don't appreciate all that you have been given or the people that worked so hard to give it to you.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)People would have realized by now that one of them has no actual realistic policy plans and is just selling unicorns and fairy dust to his base.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Ive been working since Im 14. I grew up poor in Brooklyn. I worked my way through high school and college and had to achieve twice as much to land the career i have now. I earned everything i have and am glad to be in a position give my 2 little boys a better childhood than i had.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I should think, having two little boys, might make you rethink your support of a war hawk. These wars seem to go on and on and little boys do grow up in the meantime.
Or maybe you suppose your (relatively) new found wealth and your resulting privilege will make your boys immune to the effects of war, climate change and jail.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Fund more wars than Hillary ever has. He even voted for HR Res 64 and Libya.
Response to JaneyVee (Reply #49)
Name removed Message auto-removed
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Response to JaneyVee (Reply #52)
Name removed Message auto-removed
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Are you suggesting Hillary was couldn't have thrown her two cents in at the time?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)you.
Hillary's hawkish stands on war with Iran and Syria is what should concern you with regard to your boys if not the planet.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Thank you, Hillary, for dragging this sledge further up the mountain for us. We'll never know just how much work went into just this little part, how hard and how stressful it was, but she's out there doing it as a way of life.
Response to Hortensis (Reply #14)
Post removed
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)SunSeeker
(51,697 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)pretending that it's HILLARY supporters that are angry. Because she won.
I didn't get it either.
They got some crazy projection going on.
I have no sads or angers that she won.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Fawke Em's revealing words, personally, because I think it's better for people to know just what sort of attitudes and behaviors are in play out there.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)I love ya but chill, this is a good day for Bernie and we don't need to be attacking Hillary's womanhood.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)It's a pity that so many of our persuasion choose to see something else.
Our side is good. "Conservatism" is a dangerous ideology. Go Democrats.
Hekate
(90,793 posts)SunSeeker
(51,697 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)The biggest difference from 2008 is that she did well in Polk, the county where Des Moines is located. I think in 2008 she came in third, but she handily beat Sanders here. Polk is the most populous county.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)I am just pointing the biggest change from her third place showing to her victory today. I'm telling you that Polk County played a big role. She would have lost by 5+ points to Sanders if Polk County didn'the omega through for her
I wonder what changed from 2008 to 2016 in Polk. Was their a demographic change? Or did Clinton's message just resonated here more?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)The Iraq War while still being fought is a memory in some people's minds. And Bill's role in creating the current global economic and local disparities hasn't gotten through to everyone yet.
But it will. Bernie is doing a great job and people will see the real choice.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Maybe it might have been the gun issue? Bernie did a lot better in Western Iowa. Western Iowa was suppose to be Clinton'said stronghold, but Bernie did well.Polk was suppose to go for Bernie, but Clinton won it comfortably. A lot of the suburbs went for Clinton. I think the gun differences favored Clinton and that'she why she did so well in Polk.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)I'm so happy with our candidates!
SunSeeker
(51,697 posts)countmyvote4real
(4,023 posts)By a margin.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)Response to JaneyVee (Original post)
creatives4innovation This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)It is a little piece of history, right there. Sure, I'd be happier if my guy had won the coin tosses. But sometimes its the other fella the gets lucky ... and in this case, that's the campaign of Secretary Clinton.
But how bad is it ... to "lose" by the narrowest margin in history to the first WOMAN to win the Iowa caucus? I just can't cry in my beer about this outcome.
I put "lose" in quotes because I think the Sanders campaign did what it had to do ... demonstrate its ability to produce votes beyond the predictions of the Nate Silver types, the pundits and the pollsters. And I think he did that ... so this is a strategic victory for my guy.
But it is also a victory for the first woman to win the Iowa caucus ... again, I ain't cryin' in my beer. I have this sense both camps achieved something real tonight.
This is going to be a long and interesting primary season.
Trav
pandr32
(11,611 posts)Both camps did do well. Now onward we all go because there are 49 states ahead.
Hillary Clinton is the first woman to win the Iowa caucus--first women to win the White House coming up!
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)Much more eloquently.
NNadir
(33,544 posts)I actually can't read very much political stuff here without feeling tremendous pain at so many puerile attacks on either candidate.
I'm really undecided, although I increasingly lean toward Ms. Clinton, and I thank you for not implying, as some seem to do, that she is a right wing, neo-nazi, warmongering fascist wannabee. That kind of rhetoric does no one any service, particularly when we see how odious the Republican field is.
riversedge
(70,299 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)they turned out in record numbers - all different walks of life.
hillary will act as though she won - but she knows it was a tie tonight with bernie. she knows it through and through. yes, she'll get up in a few hours to fight her fight to win any way she can - at all costs because she is a fighter and to be madam president & maintain the status quo is her goal. still, her dishonesty to her own self and her own truth will defeat her.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)140k in 2016. 240k in 2008.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)It may turn out not to be true, but I do not begrudge her supporters for celebrating the historical significance of this, if in fact it does hold up.
riversedge
(70,299 posts)riversedge
(70,299 posts)Yes, it is official
The Force was with Hillary--->V-I-C-T-O-R-Y
oasis
(49,407 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)Expect President (insert Republican nominee here) to trounce her in the general. BTW I'm voting for her in the general if she wins the Nom, for all you alert trolls out there.
oasis
(49,407 posts)would have captured the imagination of Americans in every walk of life. Hillary's journey to the White House is sure to be an inspiring story.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)For Americans who are struggling to stay afloat or finding a job. I guess making history is more important than saving the middle class.
oasis
(49,407 posts)addressed everything under the sun that lines up with Democratic Party values. In addition, she is known to be miles ahead of Bernie when it comes to foreign policy.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Hillary "assad must go" Clinton?
You know, when she finally gets that war with Syria or Iran that her friend Debbie has been praying for, I will wait to see people eat their words, but I will be too busy wondering which of my family members is getting sent off to the sandbox again to get shot at, probably with weapons obtained from Syrian "moderates."
oasis
(49,407 posts)riversedge
(70,299 posts)THANK YOU
Jamie Lee Curtis, Katy Perry and More Join Lena Dunham's #ImWithHer Campaign for Hillary Clinton
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)riversedge
(70,299 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)riversedge
(70,299 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Very nice picture, too.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Alfresco
(1,698 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... Er maybe not. They recounted later that close election and it was actually Santorum who won then.
Hmm....
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)(Or is it a digital manipulation of a photo to make it appear to be painted?) In any case, I love it!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)riversedge
(70,299 posts)lovuian
(19,362 posts)Great race
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And we will continue fighting to get her into the White House!!!
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)She pulled it out, what a strong person and a great campaign!