2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary to Bernie: "Enough with the false innuendo" about Social Security
Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) February 6, 2016
@BernieSanders I won't cut Social Security. As always, I'll defend it, & I'll expand it. Enough false innuendos. https://t.co/hBeTCQj6Fv -H
Bernie Sanders ?@BernieSanders 18h18 hours ago
I urge Sec. Clinton to join me in saying loudly and clearly that we will never cut Social Security.
http://bernie.to/NH-SocialSecurity
Response to bigtree (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...Sec. Clinton has been a strong defender of Social Security for decades.
Shame on the Sanders campaign for fearmongering about her intentions.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Via a program to pay a "bonus" to low-income seniors.
The main reason Social Security has been durable is it applies to everyone. It is not means tested. Because means tested programs are easily demonized as being for "those people". "Those people" being whatever boogeyman fits your target audience - non-whites at a KKK rally, Lazy moochers at a more mainstream rally, and so on.
Attaching means testing to Social Security is extremely dangerous. It is widely regarded as "step 1" in eliminating the program.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...you've distorted that concern and mislabeled it means-testing.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)That, by definition, is means-testing. Otherwise it would be available to all seniors.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Please stop pretending to be that stupid.
There's no reason benefit increases can only be given to the poor.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)and not increasing benefits at all, you would prefer no increase in benefits. Is that correct?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You're effectively asking if I want to end Social Security completely, or just leave it insufficient.
Why do you want to end Social Security, Dan?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If you think that bargain is awful, I'd like you to introduce to the GOP.
If you were asking me whether it's better to leave Social Security the way it is now or end it, I would say leave it the way it is.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They already proposed it. I'm actually rather surprised Clinton is copying GOP proposals from the 1980s.
So why do you want poor people to starve!!!!!11!!eleven!!!!
Oh wait, that was the dumb response you were waiting to spring on me.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If we expanded SS, even if not as much as you or I might want, that would be a good thing. But you're not even willing to consider it. And you're also not willing to acknowledge that protecting Social Security would be better than having it repealed completely.
You act as though even discussing policies that fall short of a socialist utopia is some kind of sell-out. I hate to break it to you, but the socialist utopia isn't coming.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Fail...Badly. What, no unicorns and rainbows? We Progressives are mourning the loss. Not.
marble falls
(57,204 posts)Huff Post: Hillary Clinton Refuses to Rule Out Any and All Benefit Cuts to Social Security
PCCC & Social Security Works Launch Online Ad Buy in NH
PCCC: It is an absolute must for a Democratic nominee who claims to be progressive to take Social Security cuts off the table.
WASHINGTON - Today, after Sec. Hillary Clintons campaign made clear for the first time that she will not commit to never cut Social Security, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Social Security Works have launched an online ad buy in New Hampshire to increase pressure on Clinton to make that explicit promise before Tuesdays primary.
Minutes ago, the Clinton campaign told the Huffington Post, She has no plans to cut benefits. The Huffington Post accurately reported, Hillary Clinton refuses to rule out any and all benefit cuts to Social Security.
The PCCC and Social Security Works in response announced an online ad buy statewide across New Hampshire today. The Facebook and Google ads will target likely Democratic voters, including Clintons supporters.
Stephanie Taylor, Co-founder of the PCCC issued the following statement:
Hillary Clinton says she has no plans to cut Social Security -- but George W. Bush had no plans to invade Iraq. That is not a promise, and our grandparents and veterans need a promise.
It is an absolute must for a Democratic nominee who claims to be progressive to say clearly and unequivocally that they will never cut Social Security benefits. Bernie Sanders has made that commitment. Hillary Clinton should make that commitment before the New Hampshire primary so Democrats can focus on expanding benefits.
<snip>
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...and comes to a conclusion well outside of anything she has said or implied.
And as we all know a Clinton would never parse words....
Bwaaaahahaha.....
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)since 03 Feb 2016 and ALL to smear HRC.
Is that you, KKKarl? It's not going to work.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)If I had 100 posts supporting Hillary you wouldn't have commented.
You can't bully me with low-post count comments.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)I couldn't care less about anything you have to say. Buh-bye!
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Do not draw negative attention to the fact that someone is new, has a low post count, or recently became a member of Democratic Underground. Do not insinuate that because someone is new, they are a troll or disruptor.
Got anything else?
Sid
Andy823
(11,495 posts)How so many of the new posters that come here seem to be Clinton bashers. I am sure it's not Karl posting here, but I think some of his minions might be coming here.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Progressive....enough....expand it...and many more...this is what they decided to do was to mimic his words back at him. She did the enough at the debate and now in the tweet. Bernie has always said enough is enough...
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...how dare he ask her to stand up for traditional Democratic values and principles.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)Of course she had to try, yet again, to smear Bernie while making the promise, but I'll take it.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)from 2007:
Clinton, now a New York senator, jabbed at rival Barack Obama. She suggested the Illinois senator is wrong for considering raising the retirement age or payroll tax rates to help ensure Social Security's long-term solvency. Clinton favors improving the national economy to avoid any more trust fund withdrawals.
"Putting everything on the table is not the right answer," Clinton said. "Raising the retirement age is not an answer. Cutting benefits is not an answer. We need to get back to the fiscal responsibility that we had in the 1990s, when we weren't draining the Social Security fund any more."
last1standing
(11,709 posts)Those are weasel words that promise nothing. You know that as well as I do.
But she has finally, after all this time, come out and unequivocally stated that she will not cut SS. If she becomes president (a prospect I highly doubt) I will expect her to keep her promise.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...and she didn't rely on the senator from Vermont to originate, hold, or defend those views.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)And until this tweet, I have seen no proof that she has ever, without weasel words, promised not to cut SS.
So apparently she really does need "the senator from Vermont to originate, hold, or defend those views."
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The entire point of the trust fund was for it to be drained when the Boomers retire. Their large size followed by small GenX meant we needed to save up a big pile of money before the Boomers retired. Since Millennials are larger than GenX, GenX won't provide the same "upside-down" problem (it'll also depend on how big the post-Millennial generation turns out).
The large trust fund is not supposed to be a permanent fixture.
There's also the little problem of it being a lie. The trust fund is still growing. Payments via FICA taxes are below expenses via Social Security benefits, but the trust fund is still net-positive due to interest on the $2.6T in it.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Obama and Clinton had this exchange:
OBAMA: That commission raised the retirement age, and also raised the payroll tax. So Sen. Clinton cant have it both ways.
(From: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Social_Security.htm )
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)"Demand" ... i.e. beg in harsh tones? And what about the rest of the country that pays 5 times what the rest of the world pays? How about forcing the greedy bastards into submission?
Expand Social Security benefits for widows and those who took time out of the paid workforce to care for a child or sick family member.
expanding for widows and sick leave is fine but WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF US?
It depends on what your definition of the word IS, is.
I do not trust her.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)Finally, a more direct and clear declaration by Hillary. Never would've happened without Bernie getting into the race.
Red Knight
(704 posts)No matter what happens--Bernie has forced Hillary to move to the left a bit during this campaign.
It's going to look very bad if she changes her mind later.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)The fact that anyone believes HRC is going to cut SS is absurd.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Bernie never changed his mind, and until the pepsi challenge came she would have " I'll fight for you " forever .
DanTex
(20,709 posts)version.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)...this fool is smart enough to disregard those who believe being anti-Hillary represents some kind of revolution.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)"They that are fated to be fools, have one consolation, that they are fated also to be ignorant of it."
----Norman MacDonald