2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton is heading to Flint, while Bernie Sanders is heading to NYC to do SNL
So, we have one candidate who is backing up her words with action, while Bernie Sanders decide to go on a detour to do SNL.
The optics couldn't be worse for Bernie Sanders. He talks about how he would help people, but Hillary Clinton is the one who is rolling up her sleeves and taking action.
Kudos to Hillary Clinton. She will be in Flint trying to help, while Bernie Sanders will be on SNL frolicking with Larry David.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)a cynical photo-op from the person that Championed Fracking and Keystone TPP (some of which she has triangulated out of for the time being)
Is this her attempt at redemption?
This is OK:
But this isn't 'eh?
Yeah, she's got my back.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Or just hope he never visits them, I guess?
http://www.abc12.com/news/headlines/367823871.html
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)But, having read them, I'd say an area campaign headquarters is a bit different from a fly-in.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Flint Mayor Karen Weaver says she will not call for Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder's resignation over the water crisis in her city.
Asked at the U.S. Conference of Mayors meeting in Washington, D.C., what repercussions Snyder should face, she said Snyder needs to remain in place to provide "the services and the money, the funds that we need to address the population."
Flint's water became contaminated with too much lead when its water source was switched in a cost-cutting measure in 2014. Protesters called for the governor's resignation as he delivered his State of the State speech Tuesday night.
Weaver refused to join those calls, saying she is staying focused on what she can get from the governor to resolve the crisis.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/38ec7c52c4a84fc7a5ac4c56fa8bb60f/latest-flint-mayor-wont-call-snyder-step-down
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Some people just like to work with others, rather than see them behind bars where they belong.
The people at WSWS are asking the Big Picture questions about the Flint water crisis:
Questions emerge over motives behind ending Flints ties to Detroit water system
By James Brewer and Jerry White
World Socialist Web Site, 29 January 2016
EXCERPT...
As early as March 2012 Dillon had met with Flint city officials to discuss switching from Detroit to KWA. A study by the engineering firm Tucker, Young, Jackson and Tull, which was commissioned by Dillon, found it was far more cost-effective to stay with DWSD. Their results were ignored, based on claims by Dillon that their numbers were wrong.
The decision to switch to the KWA despite potential cost-savings for Flint raises several questions about the real motivation of state and local officials for the move.
Did then-state treasurer Andy Dillon make the decision to sever FlintDetroits largest customerfrom Detroit in order to deliberately exacerbate the financial crisis in Detroit?
CONTINUED...
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/01/29/dwsd-j29.html
Andy Dillon, Michigan's State Treasurer referenced above, ran for the Democratic nomination for governor in 2010. When he lost to Lansing mayor Virg Bernero, Dillon went on vacation instead of helping beat the GOP candidate, Rick Snyder. Not that it was a reward or anything, but he got a nice job offer from... Snyder.
Ex-rival Andy Dillon slights Virg Bernero
Mich. Democrat leaders: Party is unified
by Chris Christoff
Detroit Free Press,August 7, 2010
House Speaker Andy Dillon was drubbed in the Democratic gubernatorial primary by television ads that portrayed him as a greedy Wall Street raider who opposes a woman's right to choose abortion.
Then he was drubbed by rival Lansing Mayor Virg Bernero in Tuesday's election.
Friday, a visibly relieved Dillon smiled and said he was ready to work for Democrats in the fall campaign.
But he caused a buzz by not endorsing Bernero in front of about 200 Democrats assembled in downtown Detroit for a post-election unity breakfast.
"I want to make certain some of the things I was fighting for are going to be embraced," he told reporters afterward. "Then we'll get there. We don't have to decide that today."
He added, "It's not a slap. We just got done with a campaign. I'm going to take a vacation. We'll sort it out when I come back."
It was another enigmatic move from a politician who has become an iconoclast to some fellow Democrats, scorned by some union leaders as too cozy with business and too frosty with organized labor, and criticized as a legislative leader.
CONTINUED...
http://archive.freep.com/article/20100807/NEWS15/8070314/Ex-rival-Andy-Dillon-slights-Virg-Bernero
Loyalty to the Almighty Dollar is Buy Partisan. Too bad about all the little people who get poisoned and murdered in the process.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)though not with enough force, in my opinion. The Army Corp of Engineers should be down there already tearing out those pipes and fixing everything that needs to be fixed, to give them clean water. Just for starters. But Hillary can go and talk all she wants about the future. They need help now. The people in place to do that are there. It's up to them to act.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)But that's about it.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)FTR: Democrats are implicated in what happened in Flint.
The EPAs Silent, Guilty Role in the Flint Water Crisis
Michigan's governor has borne the brunt of the blame, but there's plenty to go around.
BY REBECCA LEBER
The New Republic, January 22, 2016
Michigan Governor Rick Snyder in recent weeks has come under intense pressure over the water crisis in Flint, Michigan, which was precipitated two years ago when his administration, in an effort to cut costs, changed the citys water supply from Lake Huron to the Flint River. The move led to a dangerous increase in lead in the water supply; just 5 parts per billion is cause for concern, especially for children, but Flints tap water has had five times that amount. And yet, officials insisted until late last fall that the water was safe for its 100,000 residents to drink.
SNIP...
It was only once Flint became a national story, and Snyder and President Barack Obama declared a state of emergency, that the EPA admitted its initial response was too slow. Residents and the American Civil LIberties Union were still petitioning the EPA to act in October, long after the agency first became aware of potential problems.
In April 2014, Flints residents, the majority of whom are black, were assured by the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) that the quality of the water being put out meets all of our drinking water standards and Flint water is safe to drink. The EPA didnt know something was amiss until February 2015. Miguel Del Toral, a water expert with the EPA Region 5 office, noted in February that Flints water wasnt being treated for lead since the switch to Flint River and that state tests were understating the problems, according to documents obtained by the ACLU.
Del Toral raised two main concerns: The water wasnt being treated properly and the testing showing the water was safe was inaccurate. Im worried that the whole town may have much higher lead levels than the compliance results indicated, Del Toral warned in an April memo to DEQ, which was summarized in the email batch released Wednesday.
CONTINUED...
https://newrepublic.com/article/128156/epas-silent-guilty-role-flint-water-crisis
Does the name "Andy Dillon" ring a bell?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Thieves that he had replaced with elected officials with. And, mind you, if you really dig deep, it'll eventually fall right smack on President Obama's head.
Yep.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You know, the ones who side with the rich bastards who went along with the Emergency Manager the Republican governor and legislature appointed; the ones who think it's a good idea for government to save money by reducing services to the urban poor and not even notifying the People when their health is threatened by their actions/inaction; the ones who let Detroit go bankrupt because Detroiters are overwhelmingly poor and Black and the banksters must get paid; the ones who go back and forth between government "service" and their corporate jobs on Wall Street or Big Pharma or Big Oil; the ones who don't lose a minute's sleep over the wars without end for profits without cease. Those corporatist Democrats.
FYI: Andy Dillon is one of those. Virg Bernero is not one of those.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Where are those dang revolutionaries when you need them, huh?
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)tens of thousands of Bernie Revolutionaries who should be marching in Flint against this travesty? When will that dang Bernie revolution begin already??
As I've said many times before...all hat, no cattle.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Where are all those revolutionaries? There are at least 50,000 or more, aren't there? Where are they? Surely, not in Flint.
Revolution my behind.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)The revolution has to start somewhere - The Flint Citizens running HRC out of town - would be a very good start.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
NowSam
(1,252 posts)clean up the water supply! No? What? Her trip is just a stunt?
think4yourself
(838 posts)the town to increase security, etc.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Her poutrage battallion will try to make you disappear for it
NowSam
(1,252 posts)is that better? Am I allowed to have perceptions?
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)and talk and talk and talk....
And we'll have some photos!
On edit: I hope Flint asks her what she was doing in Philadelphia a few weeks before-hand with the Oil and Gas industry.
kath
(10,565 posts)Gas industry"
THIS!
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts).
She's all of a sudden worried about the people of Flint, MI when she was pushing fracking domestically and worldwide.
Her positions on KXL are another issue, as the next president will be able to reverse Obama's stay.
Fracking and Big Oil destroyed people and household in multitudes as of yet determined!
#hypocrisy
.
kath
(10,565 posts)And at first media, TPTB, etc., just wondered if they *might* be related to fracking. Please. It was obvious from the first few little ones.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And you want to begrudge Bernie a few moments of levity on a Saturday night? How many times has she been on SNL?
Atman
(31,464 posts)pandr32
(11,612 posts)...for a long time. The Clinton Foundation has been a cause that has taken much of the Clintons time and energy trying to organize resources and alliances to get help where it is most needed for oppressed people--particularly women and children.
I do not recall that Sanders heads a charitable, global foundation that actually gets stuff done.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)questionseverything
(9,659 posts)even if hc announces that it will still be pandering
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)But recognizing that some places in the USA might as well be third world countries would spoil the illusion.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Those in glass houses...
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)I think he's earned a night off now and again.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)Hillary Clinton might have some explaining to do before she can claim the top spot in the Democratic primary. Any pro-Hillary voters who prioritize moral plans for American foreign policy should probably look into the candidates past in Haiti.
The Pulitzer Center hosted journalist Jonathan M. Katz on June 22nd for a discussion about the Clintons influence and rather infamous legacy in Haiti and I was fortunate enough to be able to attend. Its surprising how little the failures and destruction of Bill and Hillary Clintons presence in Haiti have been brought up so far. Hopefully by 2016 this topic will be making headlines.
http://africasacountry.com/2015/07/hillary-haiti/
So, that was good of you to bring up the subject. Read it and move beyond the meme and into reality.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)I see you (and every other Hillary supporter) are studiously ignoring this thread. Her sudden "compassion" on the Flint crisis smacks of hypocritical grandstanding while she's also supporting the use of cluster bombs.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511140849
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Oof. Remember YOU brought up Haiti.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)But I'll give you a hint -- Political opportunism by exploiting a tragedy on Hillary's part.
A less obnoxious form of political opportunism by making a cameo on a comedy show on Bernie's part
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)And, "But-but-but - CLINTON!!"
Fact remains, she's gone to Flint, to those people who need the headlines trained back on them and to show her support.
Bernie's on his celebrity tour. Maybe he can get Larry Davids' autograph while he's there?
Where are those infamous Bernie Revolutionaries? Why haven't they descended upon Flint, en masse, to support the people there?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)On reddit and DU most likely, waiting for the revolution to happen.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)now and in Flint.
With Flint being predominantly Black (racial makeup of the city according to the 2010 census was 37.4% White, 56.6% African American, 0.5% Native American, 0.5% Asian, 1.1% from other races, and 3.9% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.9% of the population ), this is a golden opportunity for Bernie to siphon African American support away from Hillary.
His BernFeelers could go, en masse - just as they did following Sanders around the nation - to Flint and begin their loud protests there to frighten those Republican pols into finally doing something. With their rumored numbers, these Revolutionists can fill the streets, bring cases of bottles of water, help their fellow American, and after Bernie finishes the taping of SNL, he can rush over and join them, picking up a megaphone in his wake to call out the injustice of horrible Republican governance.
So why haven't they? Why are they here and everywhere else kvetching about Hillary?
Jackilope
(819 posts)Instead of assuring Wall Street nothing will change, he has a vision and plan to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and rebuild the working class. Not hearing that from Hillary.
Greed got us here and there are more issues with water, with corruption than just Flint.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)He is taking his supporters for a ride and they have jumped on the trained willingly.
kath
(10,565 posts)The hilarity increases along with the desperation this week.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)just a frantic episode of straw-grasping.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Hillary Clinton is taking is seriously, while Bernie Sanders is going for a few laugh on SNL.
kath
(10,565 posts)Yeah, NOWHERE.
Way to do the typical twisting, turning, deflecting.
What's hilarious is your pathetic grasping at straws, flinging crap at Bernie hoping that something might stick.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Gene Debs
(582 posts)daily "Hillarity" spot, where we highlight the day's most absurdly desperate Hillary campaign move that's utterly tone-deaf, ham-fisted, and completely transparent to any sensible person.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)What more do you want?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)But Clintons attention has been deeper and more consistent, according to those close to Mayor Weaver.
Shes the only one actually trying to help Flint, said Shayne Hodges, a Flint father of three and friend of Mayor Weaver.
Secretary Clinton has been in touch with the mayor personally and the two staffs have been in consistent contact, Kristin Moore, the mayors communication director told MSNBC. As far as I know, she added, Clinton is the only presidential candidateRepublican or Democratwho has reached out.
So, are you going to throw the mayor under the bus now?
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)and probably will get nasty FB responses. This is really a sad moment.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Note the Hillary gif in my sig line.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Is she gonna dig the first shovel full of dirt for the laying of the new pipeline that she secured federal funds for? Perhaps she is going to deliver water filters house to house? Exactly what is she going to help with?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Are yout going to throw her under the bus?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Or did she just throw it out there like you did?
on edit: I just checked, she said no such thing.
"It has come to our attention that some people are saying Mayor Weaver said "Governor Snyder should not resign." That is not true," reads the statement.
"To clarify, Mayor Weaver has stated that, "Governor Snyder must decide for himself whether he is going (to) step down," notes the statement and that it's "his call to make for the people."
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)But Clintons attention has been deeper and more consistent, according to those close to Mayor Weaver.
Shes the only one actually trying to help Flint, said Shayne Hodges, a Flint father of three and friend of Mayor Weaver.
Secretary Clinton has been in touch with the mayor personally and the two staffs have been in consistent contact, Kristin Moore, the mayors communication director told MSNBC. As far as I know, she added, Clinton is the only presidential candidateRepublican or Democratwho has reached out.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Rachael Maddow, Michael Moore and Jessie Jackson were all involved in attempting to help before HRC jumped in.
And it's great that they've been in contact, but what has she accomplished? The poison water is still flowing from the spigots. The people are still being charged for being poisoned. Wheres the calls to congress requesting they allocate funding to fix this Republican fuck up? Where's her calls for the Governor to resign? Tell me what she has accomplished in getting this resolved?
Nt
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)If she had not, you may have a point.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)lostnfound
(16,190 posts)How cool is that!
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)and running for the president of the United States of America.
Bernie is still doing his Senatorial duties, walking on picket lines,
and running for president.
Hillary appeared on SNL last year while campaigning for president.
Why is it wrong for Bernie to appear on SNL ???
kath
(10,565 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Since he does not seem to think it includes voting to help get a critical bill that would bring federal aid to Flint to the floor - since he skipped that vote in order to campaign and get ready for his SNL gig.
But Sanders was in good company. Cruz and Rubio didn't bother to show up to vote, either.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=2&vote=00017
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'm not going to dig any further into this bill after seeing the vote tally.
Voted down by a good margin, overwhelmingly by Democrats. Many yucky Rs and 4 Ds voting for it. The only ones who missed the vote are currently running for President.
In other words, the Ds seem to disagree with you about getting it to the floor, for whatever reason, and I'm quite sure Bernie made the correct judgment that it was a vote where his presence would not alter the outcome.
Did you think no one would check the link?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Amazing, isn't it?
Well, actually it's not. Nowadays, it's par for the course.
kath
(10,565 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)The crisis started in 2014. Why has it taken her this long?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)about it.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)addressed Congress about the situation, which they of course refused to do anything. He's one senator in fifty within a Senate that isn't filibuster proof.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)After Rachel Maddow publicized it. I guess it was not politically expedient then. Let's see if she brings some juggs of water. She can afford a lot from her hundreds of millions in speaking fees.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)It's not that I really mind if she goes, although the timing is interesting - it's the OP using it to (attempt to) smear Bernie.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and frankly, it's just a big red herring having nothing to do with Hillary going to Flint better late than never or Bernie doing SNL which Hillary did late last year.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Damn if you do, damn if you don't. Good for the major to invite her, at least some focus and much help in resolving the problem is forthcoming since the Gov don't give a shit.
Damn. And I don't see why people are criticizing the matter and laughing about it.
No wonder why many AA's prefer HRC, this thread just proved it.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)caring now? Rachel has been reporting on it almost as long.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)But, most importantly, it doesn't help the poor souls of Flint. We need boots on the ground there asap!
cali
(114,904 posts)Oh, and so sorry, but the optics don't hurt him.
Vinca
(50,303 posts)No, not for going to Flint for any real purpose other than to promote her campaign, but for creating a world class political advertisement that I'm sure will run and run and run and run and run. Let's see. How many times has Hillary been on SNL vs. Bernie? This could backfire.
jillan
(39,451 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Hurrican Sandy during the 2012 Presidential election? Wow...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)Seeing the difference. Smh.
elias49
(4,259 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Thank you. Context is everything. Or it matters, at least.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)lostnfound
(16,190 posts)One of them recognizes the scale of the problems, the other trying to nibble at the edges. The public gets scraps.
In the future, gated communities will be safe zones and the rest is headed for a dystopia.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)"I am going to Flint . because..... I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT !!!
PLEASE, PLEASE. MAKE ME PRESIDENT !!"
Bernie is going to SNL because.. he has a sense of humor, among other things.
frylock
(34,825 posts)What's your point?
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)jobs. At least one is up front about it.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Oh sure, she's been asked scores of times, but she's spent every Saturday in a soup kitchen instead. She's an inspiration to us all.
kath
(10,565 posts)She's a current-day Mother Teresa!
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Disclaimer: I'm no fan of Mother Theresa. Links upon request.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,975 posts)I thought HRC was funny when she was on too!
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The inverse isn't news, it's an expectation.
blm
(113,091 posts)Don't we get enough about the 'optics' bullshit from Republicans? DU is better than this.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)But I'm certain his tens of thousands of vocal Revolutionaries are going to descend on Flint in 3...2...1
Cleita
(75,480 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)residents! Stay away and let them fend for themselves! *smh* Why didn't Hillary think of that!
Is that why Bernie's Revolutionaries are steering clear of Flint? To help them by making them help themselves?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Or is she going to pose for photos with some Black people?
Gene Debs
(582 posts)going to Flint now? The problem there didn't only just come to light. She's had all summer to do compassion-porn photo ops if she were really on fire to help the people of Flint. Although, given the mood of a lot of Flint's residents, she might not be doing herself any favors...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511156958
"Rolling up her sleeves and taking action." Please.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Beacool
(30,251 posts)On the other hand, it's pretty low of his supporters to bash Hillary for going to Flint at the invitation of the city's mayor.
Tough nuts if some of you don't like it.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Bernie for having a little fun while Hillary was sitting in a big glass house and who also has has a little fun via SNL.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'm no fan of a small minority (I hope) of Bernie "supporters," but what is the OP except a (failed) smear?
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Sanders up as its the same day Sanders is doing SNL. It's blatantly political and that will be noticed. It would have better optics had she gone when she first commented on it.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)I'm sure there were plenty tragedies in need of attention then. Including the very one she seems so concerned with now.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Or has everyone just written it off? Did the endless stream of pundits declaring its results fairly insignificant and inconsequential take effect?
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid