Follow your heart. Or your wallet.

Anti Abortion
Anti Healthcare
Too hawkish
SCOTUS
anti global warming

I can't vote them, I'm not an idiot.

i don't mind sharing my wealth with those who are less fortunate. That's social democracy.

Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 03:56 AM - Edit history (1)

I tried to be neutral .

you personally, which can lead to hides. I don't know, and I don't especially care, what you intended or hoped. I care that people do not take the bait, whether left out for them intentionally or not. It's there.

of mankind.

Jury, hide away.

Oh, what the hell, indeed!!

When the first thing out of someone's mouth has anything to do with his or her personal wealth--whatever the reason--people know what's up.

It's bait. I have no idea if the personal info in the OP is true or false and I don't care. I have no idea of the OP's motives and I don't care. I just don't want anyone to take the bait.

I'm relatively new to the forums

I'm trying to voice my opinion.

I'm in the extreme minority on this situation apparently.

I'm actually voting D, but I'm really trying to learn more.

I'm in the GDP and I think I've been cordial.

Most people disagree with me, which gives food for thought.

At least by some posters. but at 600k you might as well be one of the Koch brothers.

Not my feeling necessarily but it is the prevailing wind right now.

You contribute an awful lot to the pot, a lot more than many people who are saying you're not paying your fair share.

People might not hate paying huge amounts of taxes so much if they were thanked for it instead of criticized.

if they got more in return for the taxes they pay. Like an educated work force from which to hire good employees when needed and not having to provide health insurance to their employees.

and am economically ignorant. But it sounds like your money, not Bernie, is the cause of your anxiety. If your peace of mind depends on something that can so easily change, maybe it's a good time to build on a safer foundation.

Forgive the unsolicited personal advice; sometimes my typing hand seems to have its own brain.

And re Bernie, I have no idea how his vision impacts your income and business. But I would wager that if you earnestly investigate, via his own campaign -- not msm or opposing candidates, who will fill you with more fear -- you'll find answers that will reassure you.

Besr wishes. Do not be a tool of the great god Fear.

Or did I misinterpret?

In fact, I just served on a jury from this thread. Be careful.

I'm not trying to alert bait


You can pm me if you want.

US ranks 22nd behind all of the developed countries that are social democracies.

And if you are making $600K a year what is it you think your tax liability will go from and to?

(Edited to add)
On second thought here you go: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511162609

Forbes Best countries for Business
http://www.forbes.com/best-countries-for-business/list/#tab verall

Rank Name GDP Growth GDP per Capita Trade Balance/GDP Population
#1 Denmark 1.1% $44,600 6.3% 5.6 M
#2 New Zealand 3.3% $35,300 -3.2% 4.4 M
#3 Norway 2.2% $67,200 9.4% 5.2 M
#4 Ireland 5.2% $51,300 3.7% 4.9 M
#5 Sweden 2.3% $46,200 6.2% 9.8 M
#6 Finland -0.4% $40,700 -1.8% 5.5 M
#7 Canada 2.4% $45,000 -2.1% 35.1 M
#8 Singapore 2.9% $83,100 19.1% 5.7 M
#9 Netherlands 1% $48,000 10.4% 16.9 M
#10 United Kingdom 3% $39,800 -5.9% 64.1 M
#11 Hong Kong 2.5% $55,100 1.9% 7.1 M
#12 Switzerland 1.9% $58,100 7.2% 8.1 M
#13 Iceland 1.8% $44,000 3.6% 0.3 M
#14 Australia 2.7% $46,600 -3% 22.8 M
#15 Belgium 1.1% $43,100 1.6% 11.3 M
#16 Portugal 0.9% $27,100 0.6% 10.8 M
#17 Lithuania 3% $27,300 0.1% 2.9 M
#18 Germany 1.6% $46,200 7.4% 80.9 M
#19 Estonia 2.9% $27,900 0.1% 1.3 M
#20 Slovenia 3% $29,900 6.9% 2 M
#21 Taiwan 3.8% $46,000 12.4% 23.4 M
#22 United States 2.4% $54,400 -2.2% 321.4 M
#23 Japan -0.1% $37,500 0.5% 126.9 M

I hope that's not considered sexist. I'm on thin ice thanks to some sensitive folks.
But I hear you.

read today's DU posts yet, so I am may not be totally up to speed on what is sexist and what isn't.

merrily, sorry I did not make that clear.

I get confused

This business owner is explaining the reality of his life here, and why he votes Democratic, and he's getting the usual knee-jerk reactions that give liberals a bad name.

If we want to win elections we have to be a little more inclusive.

How much room should we reserve for people who are making six figures but care only about how much money they have and not at all about the welfare of the less fortunate?

If the latter, whatcha drinking champ?

PS had to vote for "stop whining" because a more vitriolic response was not available.

But honestly, I don't fit with the GOP and I don't fit with the anti business.

Or, maybe the Libertarian Party suits you better than either the Republican Party or the Democratic Party?

The two major political parties, like major religions, are not a cafeteria where you get to pick and choose exactly what you want and nothing else. And, even in a cafeteria, what you really want may not be offered. That's life in a society.

Corporate Socialism

or

Democratic Socialism.

It seems you would be a good fit there.

Not going to be a good fit on DU.

You also sound like the prototypical Hillary Clinton supporter.

Allow me to be so bold as to say, based on nothing other than your post, I find you to be a very selfish person. One who I relish driving by on the road in my restored 1972 Chevy Blazer as you stand there next to your broken down Beemer yelling at the AAA person on the other end of the phone because you're important due to the money you make and you should get service sooner than others who made their service calls before you.

I drive a f150.

I mean dude, you're talking to a guy who started with NEGATIVE 500 in his account.

I get where you're coming from, I'm just trying to stop the long term generational trend of my family being in poverty.

restless at The Discussionist. In any event, please be mindful of making "alert worthy" responses.

"I try to hire as little as possible. I don't care about family leave or minimum wage"

You don't care about anyone but yourself and you come HERE to whine about it? I don't understand why you're even here. In a way, I feel sorry for you because it's pretty evident that somewhere along the way, you lost your humanity.

But they don't want higher taxes.

OP correct me if wrong.

Probably posting while drunk. Definite pathos. Very sad.

I'm not going to comment in too much detail until I see your response.

I'm not saying that as an attack or anything. It's just that you sound like a lot of libertarians I've read or listened to over the years.

But I know Texas is crazy.

So I support D nationally.

I'm curious about why you don't care about family leave or minimum wage, though. (I can understand the low tax liability. Even Warren Buffett, who thinks it's absurd that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary, would be foolish to spend more on paying his taxes than he absolutely has to.)

Do you honestly not care about people who are struggling? Who have to choose between caring for a sick relative and keeping a crappy job because they can't afford even a few weeks off? Whose children go to bed hungry, and cold because they can't afford to turn up the heat? Do you seriously not care about people (like a friend of mine) whose children can't live with her because her shitty rental house is full of mold, but she can't afford to live anywhere else? You honestly don't care?

To your credit, I think you would if you really understood how desperate many people are even with the economy doing better.

Please remember I will take HUGE flak for answering.

1. More minimum wage means more out of my pocket. It's an almost useless job at my company, so I don't care.

2. I sort of care.

3. Their problems are not mine. My mom has ovarian cancer and my filaw is in prison.

4. I can only care so much. I wish I could fix everybody but I barely graduated HS. I worry about my family.

Look, I did my best to answer your questions, please give me the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for your honest reply.

What I think or at least hope you mean is not that you absolutely don't care--when you say "I wish I could fix everybody" that suggests to me that you do care at least somewhat. And, of course, you did say you did sort of care.

So you care a bit but not enough to want any extra money to go out of your pocket. You probably shouldn't vote for Bernie, I guess. You're right, you can't fix everything for everybody, although I think you'd find that doing unselfish things for your fellow humans feels pretty good, actually. An amount of money that means nothing to you--you literally wouldn't even miss it--can change another person's life. We aren't in a financial position to make life-changing-sized donations here in the US, so our family likes to make donations to organizations that give microloans in countries where $30 or $50 can actually change a life, and the lives of the recipient's children for generations to come. It is a wonderful feeling to know that two strangers have touched each others' lives like that. Try it, I think you'd like it.

I'm very sorry about your mother and I hope she makes a full recovery.

I'm taking a beating in the rest of the thread, so thank you for your post.

I won't hold it against you if you pile on.

So I wanted to give you a chance to change your reply to me if you wanted to

JRLeft says below he/she is supporting Bernie for the sake of other family members. It sounds like you came from poverty or close to it (or even if you came from the middle class)--how about them as reasons for supporting a future with a better social safety net?

I can't begin to imagine the privilege of having your wealth. You sound like my socially liberal, wealthy, republican abrother.

I work 24/7 and am out of town 14 days a month.

It seems easy but it's not.

But if you saved your money you could retire with 2 million dollars for four years work. Live a simple life, have time for family and community. I just don't understand why someone with such an income would worry about a certain lifestyle going away when you could set yourself up to never have to worry about working again.

I could go bankrupt on the wrong move.

Every day I'm putting out "fires"

I once literally worked myself into homelessness. I was working 80-100 hours per week, for a year or so. I didn't have the time nor my own head space to handle my personal affairs, and the money wasn't enough to give me wiggle room. My best friend kept offering to take me to Hawaii for a much needed vacation, but I just couldn't afford to take time off. Working too many hours does not allow time to think things through let alone manage your affairs.

If you could, would you semi-retire with 2 million dollars?

I could retire on 200k.

With my wife (medical issues), I don't think 2 million would last.

I understand your post.

My husband and I have discussed the reality of seeking care that would in the end leave the other in debtors prison, and we have decided that we will not do that to the other. This is the "choice" that working class people have. If we had enough savings or income we would move abroad so that health care would be available to us as I do have chronic health problems and we are aging. I don't know if you have considered, but with your wealth you would be welcome in most nations that give health care for its citizens and residents.

I wish you the best, but I would just like you to consider that although it may not seem like it, you have good options. Working class people in the US, not so much. Its a rigged system, and if you don't have the wealth or power to be a player, then you are screwed. Don't wait for them to pull the rug out from under you, and more importantly don't turn your back on the millions of us just barely keeping a shrabby roof over our heads.

so many others do. This will solve all of your problems and help you to care about things like minimum wage, family leave etc.

I can.

No kids yet, but surrogacy costs 50k.

Need kids to retire.

You might laugh at that, but we don't

I will not alert on you.

BTW, I think your entire OP is a joke.

I mean I grew up poor.

I'll do anything not to have our children be poor.

A surrogate child will cost us 100k.

You better hurry up before it costs a million!

.

Would be somewhat cared for whether you leave a fortune behind or not.

Or amass a huge fortune, then potentially have it pissed away when you're gone...

So you're talking about a spouse with medical issues that are so extreme that you have to keep working a 600k job when you could really retire on 200k without her...

AFTER you talk about how you grew up in poverty, etc etc

But you want to surrogate, which stress wise will probably compound any medical issues your spouse has. First it's 50k for the cost, then it's 100k. When in all actuality it's can easily run up to 150k after agencies, fees, doctors etc.

Hmph. If your story is to be believed you should be head and shoulders in the game with Bernie. Considering he's the only candidate that is pushing for UHC.

I call Blarney on this post.

and I mean this sincerely. Your obsession with money and feelings of insecurity are unhealthy. I understand because I've been there. Please consider seeing someone before you find yourself saddled with a lifetime worth of regrets.

I grew up on food stamps.

Money provides security.

My mom was much too proud for food stamps. Fear of not having enough was constant, and the bullying in school for my ragged patched clothing left a mark. When I started making a decent income I worked myself sick, literally, because no matter how much I socked away it was never enough. I always feared homelessness even when I could afford two homes! I have too many physical problems to list now, many due to 85 hour work weeks. Sure, I had money then, but eventually I woke up one day, middle aged, no family and few friends because I had devoted all of my energy to "security". Now my body is so broken that I'll likely end up on disability long before I can retire. Burnout is real. It can cripple and destroy you, and it happens to so many people who constantly chase the almighty buck. Balance is absolutely critical. A therapist can help in that department (I had seven shrinks in my family at one point, so I see nothing wrong with seeing one).

I think it would be disservice to respond.

I understand what you're talking about.

And yet you don't want the minimum wage to go up because it's "money out of my pocket". Is it okay with you if your employees require food stamps to feed THEIR children?

You might be on-call 24/7, but so what? I managed a Hardees in the early 90s and was on-call 24/7 for $7.25/hour.

Plenty of people work every bit as hard as you and are out of town more than 14 days per month, and they sure as shit don't have the luxury of whining about $600K per year.

involves more than chasing dollars and instead lets your cheaper and better product become the center of an enterprise that helps to build community. What would that look like?

and communities will have to be worked out if we're going to leave a world worth having to our grandkids.

I don't know your age or why you want to retire, but with your high income and going business it seems you might want to reinvent yourself.

Grew up lower income.

Plan is to get into local Austin politics when my family doesn't need my income.

Look, I'm on DU looking for a cause to believe in. That's why I'm here.

Gar Alperovitz, Gus Speth, David Korten. And if you Google those you'll find others who are thinking very hard about the future and how we might develop it.

With your high income and young age, and willingness to be open to ideas (unlike many people with some money), there are some exciting projects that may take you in a whole new direction.

I lived in the Austin area for many years and in Texas for over 20 years. Getting involved in Austin politics is a good thing. There are many good non-profits where you can volunteer your time and begin to understand what makes Austin such a nice city (as least compared to the more conservative parts of Texas). Give of your time to begin with and when you feel comfortable donate some money.

BTW - you're really not that unusual. Everybody in central Texas drives a white F-150. And in Austin there are lots of wealthy Democrats. Mostly lawyers and business owners. Certainly not 1%ers, but folks that contribute some serious cash to political campaigns for good Democrats such as Lloyd Doggett.

Based on the poll, I'm apparently wrong.

Care to shed insight?

No I'm not fracking.

I don't know how to put this, but we pay a guy $17 an hour to watch others work. He's on "fire watch".

It's a hole joke and a scam in Deer Park Tx.

I know I'd be interested in hearing your reasons for supporting him and I imagine a lot of other people would too.

I'd I elaborated more, my real ID would come out.

if you want 30k in retirement and are spending that now, then even after tax, each month of work you earn one year's retirement. that's awesome.

i would not be surprised if you had some periods of life without enough money and you want to make absolutely sure you will have enough. it appears certain that you will but you have a hard time internalizing that. but you will, and that means that now you can think about more in life than just making sure you squeeze every last cent out of the situation. money is there to be used - you can't take it with you. Sure, stay sensible about your business. But how about hiring someone and paying them a reasonable wage to make your own life easier while you are working? how about not worrying too much if taxes go up a little - it may happen it may not, but it won't really affect your quality of life. what would affect your quality of life more is the quality of the society you live in.

Think about it, if it means this much to you to be secure that you will be able to maintain a dignified but not extravagant life, it means a lot to everyone to have that. Protecting social security, making healthcare a right and not a privilege, making education something that doesn't risk one's financial future, having a living wage and policies to keep unemployment down, all these things help others avoid what you want to avoid. Living in a society like that will make your life better too.

And then, assuming your business doesn't collapse, you will have loads of extra money that you don't know what to do with. How about treating yourself a little and making a hobby out of supporting certain charities with enough of your own active involvement that you don't feel it as giving away your hard earned money, but rather of putting your hard earned money to a use it deserves.

Congratulations on getting where you are and good luck getting where you're going!

I'd expand further but I'm catching a lot of flak and can only respond so much at a time.

Thank you.

and probably have employees that depend on your business. If you pay nearly $200,000 in taxes it seems pretty
reasonable to me to be concerned about a big tax increase. I am retied and I have had people here tell me
my pension I worked 40 years for should be subtracted from my SS benefits. We have some bitter folks around here.

Very well stated, and kindly, too.

I think that Bernie has said many times that he just wants people (and corporations) to pay their fair share of taxes. Doesn't that make sense and seem like the right thing to do in a democracy?

I can understand that after having seen your tax bill go down for years, it's tough to see it go up. But since you're a businessman, you know that costs do go up over time, right? And you just need to adjust your business model to account for the increase. Perhaps you can do that by offering new products or finding ways to make your business more efficient. That's the challenge of business -- to be able to take whatever life throws at you and make it work.

Also, the income that you earn from your business isn't just based on all your hard work, is it? It's also based on the work done by the other people in your organization. And without them, you don't have a business, right? So if you want to make your business succeed, doesn't it make sense to give them enough money so they can do a good job for you?

Yes, businesses do go south at any moment. You sound very scared about this. So here's a really radical thought -- why not make your business a worker-owned coop? Sell your business to your employees so that they can direct it with you and help you determine where it should go. I think you'd be amazed at how much more your employees know about your business than you do. You just have to ask them.

I could be paying 38 % and I'm not paying my fair share.

According to who?

And it never ends. If it goes up to 50 % I'm still not paying my fair share. There's not any end to it.

To me it's a meaningless and obnoxious term.

It means I want to raise your taxes endlessly forever with no end to it. Whatever you're paying it will never be your fair share.

A pet peeve I guess, but I find the term obnoxious every time I hear it.

when my daughter finished college we bought a doublewide on 6 acres for less than 80 k

spent several k planting hundreds of fruit and nut trees - nice garden

vacation is a short drive to the beach - entertainment trips to the library

total expenses about 1600 a month - we have enough to live well for about 75 years

hope the best for you

We have very little in common, as I am unconcerned about these right wing talking points...

Good luck figuring it all out ...

I came here to learn.

So you can save, what about the people who not only cannot save, but cannot put enough food on the table? Cannot pay for heating?

The country works a lot better when those who can help others who can't.

And why would Bernie scare you? Do you think the New Deal was disastrous? Even though it was what brought us prosperity as a country and got us a healthy middle class? Bernie's platform is pretty much just like the New Deal for our times. What is it, specifically, that scares you? You gave a lot of generalities then commented on Bernie without really saying anything about his policy.

.

If you are saving for a rainy day, as you say, you have no worries. Even if your business collapses tomorrow, you can live OK for a long time. Sure, you may have to sell some stuff, and your lifestyle will change, but your kids will not go hungry. And paying more taxes will not hurt you significantly, not as much as it hurts someone making $22,631 a year. If your taxes double, you still walk away with $200k, and you don't have to decide between paying the gas bill or buying food. I don't make as much money as you make, but I'm in the same general category where a tax increase will not force me to make tough decisions that would affect my chances for survival.

now that might not sound like much to you, but in the mid 1990s it was more than I needed to be comfortable. I made out my $35,000 checks to the IRS HAPPILY every year. Why? Because paying that much in taxes meant that I was doing quite well! My accountant was always surprised that I never once complained about what I owed. He mentioned that the more his clients made, the more they wailed about taxes, which he always thought was odd given that they weren't hurting in any way. Now I barely pull in as much as I used to pay in taxes because jobs keep being offshored and teaching pays squat. I can't afford the 11k it would take to fix my teeth, which are now black in places the cavities are so bad. THAT'S going through a slight bad spot. Going through a really bad spot is getting foreclosed on or losing your car, which has happened to several friends.

FYI-if your adjusted gross income comes out to 500k your taxes will stay the same under Bernie's plan, and you'll save thousands on healthcare.

It's similar to what my wife tells me. (Not meant in a bad way).

She views it as helping others, I view it as hurting our family.

I am only trying to give my personal perspective. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm only saying it makes me think.