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Message auto-removed (Original Post) Name removed Feb 2016 OP
Vile. polly7 Feb 2016 #1
Meh. tazkcmo Feb 2016 #2
I can't support anyone, I'm Canadian. polly7 Feb 2016 #4
Thanks Polly! tazkcmo Feb 2016 #6
Well, we were part of destroying Libya so I'm ashamed and still sick about that, polly7 Feb 2016 #11
They didn't go. tazkcmo Feb 2016 #16
I hate war more than anything on earth ..... well, mass starvation excluded of course. polly7 Feb 2016 #17
Thanks again for your well wishes. tazkcmo Feb 2016 #26
I don't poke my opinions AZ Jim Feb 2016 #59
Oh, I never used to. Except on foreign policy against millions of people polly7 Feb 2016 #63
jury results restorefreedom Feb 2016 #8
nothing sarcastic heaven05 Feb 2016 #9
What country with a majority of white folks have we engaged in military conflict? tazkcmo Feb 2016 #29
Apparently a jury of your peers doesn't agree. 99Forever Feb 2016 #33
No one should die that way. IMO It is vile and inhumane. In_The_Wind Feb 2016 #3
Anyone who has paid attention to Qadaffi ... Onlooker Feb 2016 #5
Yes, we should. tazkcmo Feb 2016 #7
Please, nobody laughs at someone's death out of empathy farleftlib Feb 2016 #13
There's empathy for the victims too Onlooker Feb 2016 #68
I'm a victim/SURVIVOR of terrible personal abuse. polly7 Feb 2016 #69
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #88
She hasn't even acknowledged the suffering these western 'interventions' polly7 Feb 2016 #89
We are, or should be more civilized than that. zalinda Feb 2016 #15
Oh fuck Ghadafi. trumad Feb 2016 #10
Gross. nt. polly7 Feb 2016 #12
Always nice to here from The Grave Dancer side of the cesspool. 99Forever Feb 2016 #37
God Damn right I'll dance on his fucking grave! trumad Feb 2016 #45
It must be nice to have lived such a saintly life... 99Forever Feb 2016 #51
Amen AZ Jim Feb 2016 #66
Surprised at all of you who think you're better judges of character Wig Master Feb 2016 #14
You must be forgetting a little something. polly7 Feb 2016 #20
"Gaddafi was praised for his human rights record towards women." wyldwolf Feb 2016 #21
I don't believe ONE fucking word of western propaganda anymore. polly7 Feb 2016 #24
that you're defending this asshole isn't surprising... wyldwolf Feb 2016 #27
I'm defending the people of LIBYA and every other nation the west has destroyed. polly7 Feb 2016 #28
Yay for truth! tazkcmo Feb 2016 #30
Nice cut and paste job. trumad Feb 2016 #47
Thanks. I trot it out when I see one of these laughing, pro-mass death threads. nt. polly7 Feb 2016 #50
I applauded his death, too. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #18
I'd love to see all of those responsible for Iraq, Libya and the subsequent polly7 Feb 2016 #22
So you thought is was doing a heckuva job? I see. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #25
IS and Boko Haram are both a direct result of military intervention/horror. polly7 Feb 2016 #32
But you thought he was a great guy. We see by your earlier posts. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #34
I thought he was trying to do great things for his people. polly7 Feb 2016 #36
like locking female sex slaves in his basement and sexually abusing boys wyldwolf Feb 2016 #38
I told you above, without proof - I believe NOTHING from western sources. polly7 Feb 2016 #39
the only proof you'd accept is first-hand experience of his atrocities, I suppose... wyldwolf Feb 2016 #40
I couldn't care less what Bernie Sanders said ..... I don't agree with anyone all of the time. polly7 Feb 2016 #44
You are barking at the Moon Wolf trumad Feb 2016 #48
it's fun watching them twist themselves in knots to defend a “a thug and murderer ” wyldwolf Feb 2016 #49
You're the one who's twisting, lying and misrepresenting , farleftlib Feb 2016 #54
show me an example of that. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #56
Yeah ......... the types with brains capable of seeing past the pro-war/death propaganda nt. polly7 Feb 2016 #73
President Truman applauds the deaths of Hitler and Mussolini. "I am very happy." wyldwolf Feb 2016 #19
There's so much to be happy about farleftlib Feb 2016 #31
“a terrible dictator” , “a thug and murderer ” - Bernie Sanders quotes before voting to remove him wyldwolf Feb 2016 #35
Yup he sure did vote for farleftlib Feb 2016 #41
after differing with the 'he was a swell guy' sentiments of his followers here wyldwolf Feb 2016 #43
Swell guy? Where does it say that? farleftlib Feb 2016 #52
Why not educate us all and give us examples wyldwolf Feb 2016 #53
I just did farleftlib Feb 2016 #55
no you didn't wyldwolf Feb 2016 #58
Read my link and get back to me farleftlib Feb 2016 #61
I did, then I got back to you. You're not following this discussion very well. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #62
No you didn't farleftlib Feb 2016 #65
yes I did. I read it then asked you a question. You're choosing to refer us back to your editorial wyldwolf Feb 2016 #67
You asked me to educate you farleftlib Feb 2016 #71
and instead you referred me to an editorial that doesn't make your point. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #72
It most certainly does farleftlib Feb 2016 #74
it certainly does not. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #77
neener neener farleftlib Feb 2016 #79
I thought you had the discussion skills of a kid. You just confirmed it. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #81
Bernie should call her out on that at the next debate! 72DejaVu Feb 2016 #23
WHAT??? AZ Jim Feb 2016 #64
It's called "dripping with sarcasm" Dem2 Feb 2016 #75
In these times one never knows..... AZ Jim Feb 2016 #78
Yeah she needs to stop that laughing at death shit. Bad form. ancianita Feb 2016 #42
She also laughed when "apologizing" for her IWR vote. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #70
I'm fully aware that she signals her covering feelings of guilt. However, we shouldn't be parading ancianita Feb 2016 #82
No one is proposing disarming. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #85
I get that. And I hope she comes up with some other emotion when confronted with our murders. ancianita Feb 2016 #87
The 5000 or so UglyGreed Feb 2016 #46
Nothing like doing her version of a Julius Caesar quote in an Islamic country. EndElectoral Feb 2016 #57
A despicable sponsor of terrorism is held above a dedicated public oasis Feb 2016 #60
It was a display of her "foreign policy experience". Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #76
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #86
Hell Yehhhhh!!! pokhum Feb 2016 #80
hmm. nt malokvale77 Feb 2016 #90
Vile hubris - the type that topples nations. Oneironaut Feb 2016 #83
War is hell. NowSam Feb 2016 #84

polly7

(20,582 posts)
1. Vile.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:24 AM
Feb 2016

Colonel Muammar Gaddafi died after being stabbed with a bayonet in the anus and not in a firefight as originally claimed by Libyan authorities, according to a report on the Libyan dictator's last hours.

Two Nato missiles forced the group to leave the cars and escape on foot, seeking shelter in a drainage ditch. A bodyguard hurled grenades at approaching militiamen but one grenade "hit the concrete wall and bounced back to fall between Muammar Gaddafi and Abu Bakr Younis", Younis junior said.

"The shrapnel hit my father and he fell down to the ground. Muammar Gaddafi was also injured by the grenade, on the left side of his head," he said.

New York-based Human Rights Watch said Gaddafi was already bleeding from head wounds caused by blast shrapnel as he tried to flee Sirte, his hometown.

The charity obtained unedited mobile footage that showed militia fighters abusing Gaddafi as they took him into custody in October 2011.

"As he was being led on to the main road, a militiaman stabbed him in his anus with what appears to have been a bayonet, causing another rapidly bleeding wound," the report said.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaddafi-killed-bayonet-stab-anus-libya-395224


The Grand finale - sodomized with a bayonet, beaten, tortured and murdered in the street - "We came, we saw ....... he died, lol".

I watched it in real time, it was absolutely horrific. We wouldn't allow a rabid dog to be put to death this way. If I saw it, anyone who was part of it certainly knew just as much as I did.

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
2. Meh.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:27 AM
Feb 2016

Rabid dogs aren't Dirty Brown People With Oil. Learn the difference and you'll feel a lot better about supporting Madame Secretary if she wins.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
4. I can't support anyone, I'm Canadian.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:28 AM
Feb 2016

I just absolutely hate what's been done to so many countries and innocent people around the world. I'm a supporter of Bernie Sander's supporters.

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
6. Thanks Polly!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:33 AM
Feb 2016

I have two brothers that had their bags packed and ready to move to your country during Vietnam. Thank you again!

polly7

(20,582 posts)
11. Well, we were part of destroying Libya so I'm ashamed and still sick about that,
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:45 AM
Feb 2016

but I hope your brothers made out ok.

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
16. They didn't go.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:48 AM
Feb 2016

Luckily, the war ended before they were drafted and they both ended up in the Navy as volunteers and myself in the Army. That's what poor people do in this country instead of dying of starvation or some illness we can't get medical attention for. We join the military where we know we'll be fed, clothed and receive some medical care as long as it isn't too expensive. THEN we can die in a war! That's much better.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
17. I hate war more than anything on earth ..... well, mass starvation excluded of course.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:51 AM
Feb 2016

Especially needless, lying wars to benefit those who have it all already using innocents who have no choice in where they're sent or what they'll be doing. It's completely horrifying to me.

I hope you're all doing ok!

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
26. Thanks again for your well wishes.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:12 AM
Feb 2016

And I agree with you 100%.

AZ Jim

(70 posts)
59. I don't poke my opinions
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:41 AM
Feb 2016

into Canadian politics. I don't care what foreigners think of ours. No offense but.................

polly7

(20,582 posts)
63. Oh, I never used to. Except on foreign policy against millions of people
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
Feb 2016

suffering who are not in the U.S. I have every right to poke my opinions into anything concerning them.

And after watching what people here are doing to posters I care about - I support nearly everything they post - I don't care if you find it appropriate or not. Do you call out Sid, or applegrove for supporting Clinton?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
8. jury results
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:42 AM
Feb 2016

On Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:30 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Meh.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1164089

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Dirty brown people" are all brown people dirty to this clown

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:39 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: That's not his point. His point is an over the top attack on Hillary.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: People need to learn the fine art of sarcasm. Leave.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Dirty brown people? Poster forgot to hide his thoughts. This kind of language is not tolerated at DU, or at least it didn't use to be. Sigh.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sarcasm
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It was sarcasm. Might have been a good idea to note it as such, however.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
9. nothing sarcastic
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:42 AM
Feb 2016

About this post.....needs to leave.

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
29. What country with a majority of white folks have we engaged in military conflict?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:16 AM
Feb 2016

Germany and who else? Add oil to the filter and none. You may not like my language, it IS disgusting and that's the point. It's our foreign policy.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
33. Apparently a jury of your peers doesn't agree.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:19 AM
Feb 2016

Of which I was #6.

As I said there, that it perhaps should have been noted as sarcasm, for the sarcastically impaired. Thanks for proving me right.

In_The_Wind

(72,300 posts)
3. No one should die that way. IMO It is vile and inhumane.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:28 AM
Feb 2016

He was horrible beyond words but that does not excuse what was done to him.

 

Onlooker

(5,636 posts)
5. Anyone who has paid attention to Qadaffi ...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:32 AM
Feb 2016

... would know what a vile human being he was. If she laughed, it was probably out of relief and empathy that such an evil man was killed. The way he was killed reflects the anger directed against him. His death was a victory against Fascism.

I suppose we should be equally disgusted at the Italian Fascists who killed Mussolini and then strung him up to celebrate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Benito_Mussolini

The bodies of Mussolini and Petacci were taken to Milan and left in a suburban square, the Piazzale Loreto, for a large angry crowd to insult and physically abuse. They were then hung upside down from a metal girder above a service station on the square.

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
7. Yes, we should.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:38 AM
Feb 2016

Just like we should hold our own soldiers responsible for their disgusting acts of brutality in a court of law as opposed to spitting on them. It's called being civilized and resisting the temptation to sink to the same level as the dirt we're supposedly better than. Apparently you feel differently. How about we bring back the stockades in the public square? Public stoning? Public hangings? Only for the worst criminals, of course, because we're civilized.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
13. Please, nobody laughs at someone's death out of empathy
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:46 AM
Feb 2016

They laugh because they lack empathy. No matter what he did, her cackling like she did was creepy and pathological.

 

Onlooker

(5,636 posts)
68. There's empathy for the victims too
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:51 AM
Feb 2016

Qadaffi was a horrible man. Many of those who lost loved ones in 9/11 surely expressed great joy the day bin Laden was killed. I don't know how many victims of Qadaffi Hillary met, but I think it's also a lack of empathy to fail to consider why someone might actually be joyful of the death of someone else. I think anyone who has sat with victims of terrible abuse feels a sense of happiness when the situation is resolved even if the abuser dies.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
69. I'm a victim/SURVIVOR of terrible personal abuse.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:53 AM
Feb 2016

I'd never, ever laugh to see my abuser sodomized with a bayonet in the street, tortured and murdered. That would literally make me ill and give me nightmares for the rest of my life.

I've found out that so many of the charges against Gaddafi were proven to be lies, as well as ALL of the reasons given to the UN to get in to finally claim control of a sovereign nation long on the PNAC hit-list, so I don't believe much of what's been claimed ............... at ALL.

Response to Onlooker (Reply #68)

polly7

(20,582 posts)
89. She hasn't even acknowledged the suffering these western 'interventions'
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:45 PM
Feb 2016

have caused for millions of children let alone apologized for a single child lost. I haven't even heard her mention them.

zalinda

(5,621 posts)
15. We are, or should be more civilized than that.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:48 AM
Feb 2016

The simple fact is, I wouldn't laugh at Hitler's death, even in relief. I have no idea why Hillary would get relief from Qadaffi's death, he didn't do anything to her or even her family. That statement is just wrong, and add the laugh and it's downright bone chilling. We are not in the time of bread and circuses.

As far as what happened with Mussolini and Petacci, it was wrong, but understandable since these people were the victims. Also, during that time, there was very little evidence in the way of photo or video proof that something happened. Putting someone on display was to prove that they were indeed dead, and a deterrent to others who might want to take their place. We've outgrown this type of treatment, at least I hope so.

Z

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
10. Oh fuck Ghadafi.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:44 AM
Feb 2016

He deserved far worse. He should have been strung up like Mussolini.

Oh but it's Hillary so let's attack her.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
12. Gross. nt.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:45 AM
Feb 2016

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
37. Always nice to here from The Grave Dancer side of the cesspool.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:22 AM
Feb 2016
 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
45. God Damn right I'll dance on his fucking grave!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:29 AM
Feb 2016

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
51. It must be nice to have lived such a saintly life...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:35 AM
Feb 2016

... that one can delight in such acts as this.

And I'm certain that carrying around the sort of bitter hatred and anger you do, really, really, really caused the targets of it, untold amounts of grief. YOU showed them!!!

AZ Jim

(70 posts)
66. Amen
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

My sentiments exactly!

 

Wig Master

(95 posts)
14. Surprised at all of you who think you're better judges of character
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:47 AM
Feb 2016

than Nelson Mandela

polly7

(20,582 posts)
20. You must be forgetting a little something.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:03 AM
Feb 2016

Mandela praised Qaddafi for fully supporting ending apherteid.

This question becomes even more valid in light of what the mainstream media, in the wake of the former South African president’s death, have been anxiously hiding from the public: the actual close and crucial alliance between Mandela and Gaddafi. Back in the 70s and 80s, when the West refused to allow sanctions against Apartheid in South Africa and used to call Mandela a terrorist, it was none other than Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi who kept supporting him. Gaddafi funded Mandela’s fight against Apartheid by training ANC fighters and by paying for their education abroad, and their bond only became stronger after Mandela’s release from prison on February 11, 1990.


When Mandela was taken to the ruins of Gaddafi’s compound in Tripoli, which was bombed by the Reagan administration in 1986 in an attempt to murder the entire Gaddafi family, he said:

“No country can claim to be the policeman of the world and no state can dictate to another what it should do. Those that yesterday were friends of our enemies have the gall today to tell me not to visit my brother Gaddafi. They are advising us to be ungrateful and forget our friends of the past.”

In response, Gaddafi thanked Mandela for his friendship, saying: “Who would ever have said that one day the opportunity for us to meet would become reality. We would like you to know that we are constantly celebrating your fight and that of the South African people, and that we salute your courage during all of those long years you spent in detention in the prison of Apartheid. Not a single day has passed without us having thought of you and your sufferings.”

Eight years later, when then U.S. president Bill Clinton visited Mandela in March 1998, Clinton criticized the South African president’s meeting with Muammar Gaddafi. In reaction to that criticism, Mandela straightforwardly replied:

“I have also invited Brother Leader Gaddafi to this country. And I do that because our moral authority dictates that we should not abandon those who helped us in the darkest hour in the history of this country. Not only did the Libyans support us in return, they gave us the resources for us to conduct our struggle, and to win. And those South Africans who have berated me for being loyal to our friends, can literally go and jump into a pool.”


On the eve of the NATO-led war against Libya, Gaddafi’s booming country largely co-funded three projects that would rid Africa from its financial dependence on the West once and for all: the African Investment Bank in the Libyan city of Sirte, the African Monetary Fund (AFM), to be based in the capital of Cameroon, Yaounde, in 2011, and the African Central Bank to be based in the capital of Nigeria, Abuja. Especially the latter angered France – not coincidentally also the main orchestrator of the war on Libya – because it would mean the end of the West African CFA franc and the Central African CFA franc, through which France kept a hold on as much as thirteen African countries. Only two months after Africa said no to Western attempts to join the AFM, Western organized “protests” against the AFM’s benefactor, Muammar Gaddafi, started to erupt in Libya… ultimately resulting in the freezing of $30 billion by the West, which money mostly was intended for the above mentioned financial projects.

But Gaddafi helped the African continent in more than just material ways. More than any other African leader, he supported Mandela’s ANC’s struggle against the racist regime in South Africa. Above that, many Black Africans, especially sub-Saharan African migrants and refugees, found a new home in Gaddafi’s prosperous Libya.


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37301.htm



Gaddafi was praised for his human rights record towards women. He introduced equal pay, women were half the work force. Do you have equal pay in the U.S.? Crickets.

Prior to western military involvement Libya was a modern and secular state with the highest regional women’s rights and standards of living. No more. We fixed that!

Libya had the highest GDP per capita and life expectancy on the continent. Less people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.

Unlike many other Arab nations, women in Gaddafi’s Libya had the right to education, hold jobs, divorce, hold property and have an income. The United Nations Human Rights Council praised Gaddafi for his promotion of women’s rights. More than half of Libya’s university students were women. One of the first laws Gaddafi passed in 1970 was an equal pay for equal work law.

Now, the new 'democratic' Libyan regime is clamping down on women’s rights. The new ruling tribes are tied to traditions that are strongly patriarchal. Extremist Islamic forces see gender equality as a Western perversion.



wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
21. "Gaddafi was praised for his human rights record towards women."
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:06 AM
Feb 2016
Muammar Gaddafi’s sexual crimes
Libyan dictator raped women, held them captive. His security director shares harrowing, previously secret details


http://www.salon.com/2013/09/22/muammar_gaddafis_sexual_crimes/

One of the downfalls of the far left progressive movement if the defense of assholes like him. Happy he's taking a dirt nap.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
24. I don't believe ONE fucking word of western propaganda anymore.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:12 AM
Feb 2016

Not one bit.

Here - for starters.

Exposed: The "Humanitarian" War In Libya

Check this out - 'The Humanitarian War' = http://www.laguerrehumanitaire.fr/english It's horrifying. (Videos now here - I watched them on the original site when all of it was happening and posted these here at DU) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29428.htm

Must watch videos, the western trained NTC 'Prime Minister' - 'word to ear!' was the source of the 'data (all unofficial and lies, of course) that led to the UN resolution.

A bunch of LIES submitted to the ICC ..... by the UN - who got their 'numbers and crimes' from the NTC Prime Minister - 'word to ear'. Pages and pages redacted.

No Evidence? No Problem!!

How the CIA Used "Libyan Expatriates" To Engineer Consent For Regime Change

One of the main sources for the claim that Qaddafi was killing his own people is the Libyan League for Human Rights (LLHR), an organization linked to the International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH). On Feb. 21, 2011, LLHR General Secretary Dr. Sliman Bouchuiguir initiated a petition in collaboration with the organization U.N. Watch and the National Endowment for Democracy. This petition was signed by more than 70 NGOs.

Then a few days later, on Feb. 25, Dr. Bouchuiguir went to the U.N. Human Rights Council in order to expose the allegations concerning the crimes of Qaddafi’s government. In July 2011 we went to Geneva to interview Dr. Sliman Bouchuiguir.

"How to circumvent international law and justice 101." - originally published by http://laguerrehumanitaire.fr

A film by Julien Teil

Official Website:
http://laguerrehumanitaire.fr
Official web:
http://thehumanitarianwar.com
Official TV:
http://laguerrehumanitaire-film.rutube.ru/


*************************************************************************************************
What you don't know about the Libyan crisis: (watch the timeline closely)

...

*************************************************************************************************

The horror of Libya - to fulfill the PNAC objective of overthrowing yet another country. "7 countries in 5 years!" This was NO "Humanitarian Intervention", and certainly not for all those migrants Qaddafi had allowed in over decades, Qaddafi loyalists and others who were raped, tortured, mutilated, hung, burned to death .... all known of by the NATO 'humanitarian team'.

It was a bullshit, self-serving, western funded and backed coup against yet another sovereign nation not yet indebted to the IMF and controlling its own resources, not to mention not allowing U.S. bases 'Africom' into all of Africa.

Some of these links don't work anymore, but read and discover just what a sham this was and why. The video at the end is particularly interesting.


The Untold Story in Libya

Posted by polly7 in General Discussion
Tue Oct 18th 2011, 10:06 AM

In May 2010, Libya was voted on to the UN Human Rights Council by a huge majority. The UN Watch's campaign to remove Libya from the Human Rights Council began immediately.

In March, 2011, a report, containing positive quotes from UN diplomatic delegations in many countries, was due to be presented by the UN Human Rights Council, leading to a Resolution commending Libya's progress in a wide aspect of human rights (listed in the article). March 19, 2011, the attack on Libya began.

Libya was one of only five countries without a Rothschild model central bank, Quaddafi openly discussed, in 2009, the nationalization of US, UK, Germany, Spain, Norway, Canada and Italy's oil companies, switching to the gold dinar - a single African currency that would serve as an alternative to the U.S. dollar and allow African nations to share the wealth. Libya has an abundance of water - Gaddafi’s Great Man-Made River Project project offers limitless amounts of water for Libyans and would allow them to be totally self-sufficient. In the near-future, water will be the next resource equated with money and power, other countries may be dependent on its reserves. A self-sufficient, dictator-ruled nation with control over some of the world’s most precious resource waves a big red warning flag.

In 2010 Gaddafi made a motion to the UN General Assembly to investigate the circumstances of the invasion of Iraq. He was also wasting the west's ....... 'libya's' oil on free education, housing, tolerance of immigrants, raising the standard of living in Africa, lowering infant mortality while raising life expectancy.

Many of these things are completely similar to what we learned of Iraq.


*************************************************************************************************

Yes, simply put, Nato's member nations are trying to steer back Libya Central Bank into the mainstream financial structure, under the watching eyes of the World Bank and the International Monetary Funds, to provide (reconstruction) funds to Libya with hefty interests payments - and transform a country which was free of debts into a heavily indebted country - as done everywhere else in sub-Saharan African countries.

http://businessafrica.net/africabiz/graphs...
http://businessafrica.net/africabiz/arcvol...

*************************************************************************************************

From a 'no fly zone to all out bombing of targets called out by rebels'. NATO's high-precision bombing preceeded 'rebel' incursions.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MH27Ak03.html

"It's now common knowledge that British SAS, French intelligence, US Central Intelligence Agency assets, Qatar special forces and mercenaries of all stripes were parachuted as boots on the ground for months, planning and training the "rebels" and in close coordination with that philanthropic prodigy, NATO.

That was never the UN mandate - but who cares? NATO/GCC paid the bills, NATO conducted the bombing and NATO/GCC will "stabilize" the mess, according to a 70-page plan leaked by the British to Rupert Murdoch'sz Times of London."

"Expect local - and global - fireworks as far as grabbing the loot is concerned. Without even considering the (still unexplored) oil and gas wealth, Libya's foreign assets are worth at least $150 billion. Libya's central bank, now about to be privatized, has no less than 143.8 tons of gold. Then there's at least a millennium supply of fresh water, which had started to be harnessed by Gaddafi via the spectacular, multibillion dollar Great Man-Made River (GMR) project."

Middle East
Aug 27, 2011

THE ROVING EYE
R2P is now Right 2 Plunder
By Pepe Escobar

*************************************************************************************************

"Oil-rich but with a relatively small population of 6.6. million, Gadhafi's Libya welcomed hundreds of thousands of black Africans looking for work in recent decades. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/l...

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NATO’s War on Libya is an Attack on African Development–Dan Glazebrook

6 09 2011

http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/tag/afr... /

To prevent this ‘threat of African development’, the Europeans and the USA have responded in the only way they know how – militarily. Four years ago, the US set up a new “command and control centre” for the military subjugation of the Africa, called AFRICOM. The problem for the US was that no African country wanted to host them; indeed, until very recently, Africa was unique in being the only continent in the world without a US military base. And this fact is in no small part, thanks to the efforts of the Libyan government.
Before Gaddafi’s revolution deposed the British-backed King Idris in 1969, Libya had hosted one of the world’s biggest US airbases, the Wheelus Air Base; but within a year of the revolution, it had been closed down and all foreign military personnel expelled.
More recently, Gaddafi had been actively working to scupper AFRICOM. African governments that were offered money by the US to host a base were typically offered double by Gaddafi to refuse it, and in 2008 this ad-hoc opposition crystallised into a formal rejection of AFRICOM by the African Union.

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The force used by the occupier to displace the old regime always makes sure the new regime is supine and complaint. The National Transitional Council, made up of former Gadhafi loyalists, Islamists and tribal leaders, many of whom detest each other, will be the West’s vehicle for the reconfiguration of Libya. Libya will return to being the colony it was before Gadhafi and the other young officers in 1969 ousted King Idris, who among other concessions had let Standard Oil write Libya’s petroleum laws. Gadhafi’s defiance of Western commercial interests, which saw the nationalization of foreign banks and foreign companies, along with the oil industry, as well as the closure of U.S. and British air bases, will be reversed. The despotic and collapsed or collapsing regimes in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Syria once found their revolutionary legitimacy in the pan-Arabism of Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser. But these regimes fell victim to their own corruption, decay and brutality. None were worth defending. Their disintegration, however, heralds a return of the corporate and imperial power that spawned figures like Nasser and will spawn his radical 21st century counterparts.

Libya: Here We Go Again

Monday 5 September 2011
by: Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed

http://www.truthout.com/libya-here-we-go-a...

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LIBYA: Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others

http://somalilandpress.com/libya-rebels-ex...

"Many Africans have virtually nothing after years in Libya, many have been looted, robbed, while others saw their living quarters and apartments go in flames. Now they are praying to God to send them home.
While the international leaders are busy drafting resolutions to dismantle Muammar Gaddafi, the African Union has not yet commented on the situation in Libya.

Meanwhile, the International Criminal Court is said to have started a formal inquiry into possible crimes against humanity in Libya that will investigate the Libyan regime."

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JohnPilger.com
8 September 2011

http://johnpilger.com/articles/hail-to-the...

..."I quote that not so much for its Orwellian quality but as a model of journalism's role in justifying "our" bloodbaths in advance.
This is Rupert's Revolution, after all. Gone from the Murdoch press are pejorative "insurgents". The action in Libya, says The Times, is "a revolution... as revolutions used to be". That it is a coup by a gang of Muammar Gaddafi's ex cronies and spooks in collusion with Nato is hardly news.

The self-appointed "rebel leader", Mustafa Abdul Jalil, was Gaddafi's feared justice minister. The CIA runs or bankrolls most of the rest, including America's old friends, the Mujadeen Islamists who spawned al-Qaeda.
They told journalists what they needed to know: that Gaddafi was about to commit "genocide", of which there was no evidence, unlike the abundant evidence of "rebel" massacres of black African workers falsely accused of being mercenaries. European bankers' secret transfer of the Central Bank of Libya from Tripoli to "rebel" Benghazi by European bankers in order to control the country's oil billions was an epic heist of little .

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Sirte a 'living hell,' says aid group

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/co...

Tuesday 04 October 2011 by Our Foreign Desk Printable Email

A Red Cross team finally entered the besieged Libyan town of Sirte yesterday and delivered urgently needed surgical supplies to treat about 200 wounded people.

Nato has repeatedly targeted Sirte in its seven-month bombing campaign that enabled armed rebels to topple the government of Muammar Gadaffi and gain control of most of the oil-rich state.

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Absolutely horrible to use rape as a propaganda weapon for war, while ignoring the reality of it for all those brutalized, raped and some, murdered by the NATO supported 'rebels' - just one example of their many atrocities.

********* http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2174087 **********

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2011/08/26/lies-war-and-empire-nato’s-“humanitarian-imperialism”-in-libya

In early March of 2011, news headlines in Western nations reported that Gaddafi would kill half a million people.

<1> On March 18, as the UN agreed to launch air strikes on Libya, it was reported that Gaddafi had begun an assault against the rebel-held town of Benghazi. The Daily Mail reported that Gaddafi had threatened to send in his African mercenaries to crush the rebellion.<2> Reports of Libyan government tanks sitting outside Benghazi poised for an invasion were propagated in the Western media.<3> In the lead-up to the United Nations imposing a no-fly zone, reports spread rapidly through the media of Libyan government jets bombing the rebels.<4> Even in February, the New York Times – the sacred temple for the ‘stenographers of power’ we call “journalists” – reported that Gaddafi was amassing “thousands of mercenaries” to defend Tripoli and crush the rebels.<5>

Italy’s Foreign Minister declared that over 1,000 people were killed in the fighting in February, citing the number as “credible.”<6> Even a top official with Human Rights Watch declared the rebels to be “peaceful protesters” who “are nice, sincere people who want a better future for Libya.”<7> The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights declared that “thousands” of people were likely killed by Gaddafi, “and called for international intervention to protect civilians.”<8> In April, reports spread near and far at lightning speed of Gaddafi’s forces using rape as a weapon of war, with the first sentence in a Daily Mail article declaring, “Children as young as eight are being raped in front of their families by Gaddafi’s forces in Libya,” with Gaddafi handing out Viagra to his troops in a planned and organized effort to promote rape.<9>

As it turned out, these claims – as posterity notes – turned out to be largely false and contrived. Doctors Without Borders and Amnesty International both investigated the claims of rape, and “have found no first-hand evidence in Libya that rapes are systematic and being used as part of war strategy,” and their investigations in Eastern Libya “have not turned up significant hard evidence supporting allegations of rapes by Qaddafi’s forces.” Yet, just as these reports came out, Hillary Clinton declared that the U.S. is “deeply concerned by reports of wide-scale rape” in Libya.<10> Even U.S. military and intelligence officials had to admit that, “there is no evidence that Libyan military forces are being given Viagra and engaging in systematic rape against women in rebel areas”; at the same time Susan Rice, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, “told a closed-door meeting of officials at the UN that the Libyan military is using rape as a weapon in the war with the rebels and some had been issued the anti-impotency drug. She reportedly offered no evidence to backup the claim.”<


Untrue, says US

US says Gadhafi troops issued Viagra, raping victims
Allegation suggests troops encouraged to turn to sexual violence, envoys say

By Louis Charbonneau
updated 4/28/2011 9:31:26 PM ET

UNITED NATIONS — The U.S. envoy to the United Nations told the Security Council Thursday that troops loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi were increasingly engaging in sexual violence and some had been issued the impotency drug Viagra, diplomats said.

Several U.N. diplomats who attended a closed-door Security Council meeting on Libya told Reuters that U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice raised the Viagra issue in the context of increasing reports of sexual violence by Gadhafi's troops.

"Rice raised that in the meeting but no one responded," a diplomat said on condition of anonymity. The allegation was first reported by a British newspaper.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42809612/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa#.TqXeG96ImU8


US intel: No evidence of Viagra as weapon in Libya

http://www.msnbc .msn.com/id/42824884/ns/world_news-mide...

UN Ambassador Rice reportedly had said drug was being used in systematic rapes
NBC News and news services updated 4/29/2011 1:52:00 PM ET

UNITED NATIONS — There is no evidence that Libyan military forces are being given Viagra and engaging in systematic rape against women in rebel areas, US military and intelligence officials told NBC News on Friday.

Diplomats said Thursday that US Ambassador Susan Rice told a closed-door meeting of officials at the UN that the Libyan military is using rape as a weapon in the war with the rebels and some had been issued the anti- impotency drug. She reportedly offered no evidence to backup the claim.

While rape has been a weapon of choice in many other African conflicts, the US officials say they've seen no such reports out of Libya.


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
lead inL Opponents of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi protesters shout anti-Gadhafi slogans during a protest after the Friday prayer at the court square, in Benghazi, eastern Libya, on Friday March 11, 2011. French President Nicolas Sarkozy faced increasing pressure from fellow leaders Friday who complained he was out of line to suddenly give a Libyan opposition group diplomatic recognition. Rebels held out Friday in part of a strategic oil port after fierce fighting with Moammar Gadhafi loyalists waging a heavy counteroffensive trying to push the opposition further east away from the capital. (AP Photo/Hussein Malla) (Associated Press photographs)


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
The gap between Hillary Rodham Clinton's rhetoric warning of a Rwanda-like slaughter of civilians in Libya and the facts gathered by career intelligence staff is taking on significance as the former secretary of state prepares another bid for the White House and her national security credentials are re-examined. (Associated Press)



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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...
bvar22:

The Untold Story in Libya:

How The West Cooked Up The People's Uprising


http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/31/now-that-... ... /

The Global Disaster Capitalists never let a good disaster go to waste.
In the case of Libya, they used their Enforcement Arm (NATO & The US Military) to CREATE a disaster where there was none.

” For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/M...

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Libya: Oil, Banks, Water, the United Nations, and America’s Holy Crusade by Felicity Arbuthnot

Posted on April 5, 2011 by dandelionsalad

.."The country was commended: “for the progress made in the achievement of the Millennium Development Goals, namely universal primary education (and) firm commitment (to) health care.” There was “praise” for “cooperation with international organizations in combating human trafficking and corruption ..” and for cooperation with “the International Organization for Migration.”

“Progress in enjoyment of economic and social rights, including in the areas of education, health care, poverty reduction and social welfare” with “measures taken to promote transparency”, were also cited. Malaysia: “Commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for being party to a significant number of international and regional human rights instruments.” Promotion: “of the rights of persons with disabilities” and praise for “measures taken with regard to low income families”, were cited...

.."So how does the all tie together? Libya, in March being praised by the Majority of the UN., for human rights progress across the board, to being the latest, bombarded international pariah? A nation’s destruction enshrined in a UN., Resolution?
The answer lies in part with the Geneva based UN Watch.(vii) UN Watch is : “a non-governmental organization whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations.” With Consultative Status to the UN Economic and Social Council, with ties to the UN Department of Public Information, “UN Watch is affiliated with the American Jewish Committee.” (AJC.)"

http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2011/0... /

Interesting ..... the involvement in HR Watch of persons whose core values include securing energy resources.

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Colonel Muammar Gaddafi died after being stabbed with a bayonet in the anus and not in a firefight as originally claimed by Libyan authorities, according to a report on the Libyan dictator's last hours.

Two Nato missiles forced the group to leave the cars and escape on foot, seeking shelter in a drainage ditch. A bodyguard hurled grenades at approaching militiamen but one grenade "hit the concrete wall and bounced back to fall between Muammar Gaddafi and Abu Bakr Younis", Younis junior said.

"The shrapnel hit my father and he fell down to the ground. Muammar Gaddafi was also injured by the grenade, on the left side of his head," he said.

New York-based Human Rights Watch said Gaddafi was already bleeding from head wounds caused by blast shrapnel as he tried to flee Sirte, his hometown.

The charity obtained unedited mobile footage that showed militia fighters abusing Gaddafi as they took him into custody in October 2011.

"As he was being led on to the main road, a militiaman stabbed him in his anus with what appears to have been a bayonet, causing another rapidly bleeding wound," the report said.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaddafi-killed-bayonet-stab-anus-libya-395224



The Grand finale - sodomized with a bayonet, beaten, tortured and murdered in the street - "We came, we saw ....... he died, lol".



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The campaign in Libya began with an innocent sounding UN Security Council Resolution calling for the protection of civilians. Both China and Russia abstained rather than voting to veto the resolution. Then they realized they had been tricked. In her book, Clinton describes how Russia “chafed as the NATO-led mission to protect civilians accelerated the fall of Qaddafi”. In reality the NATO led mission “to protect civilians” resulted in vastly more civilian deaths than had occurred before it began.

Horace Campbell and Maximilian Forte have written two solid accounts describing the reality versus myths of regime change in Libya. Clinton’s characterization of “accelerating” the fall of Qaddafi is a cynical understatement, like her self congratulatory comment that “we came, we saw, he died” after rebels killed Qaddafi on the street. Many of the refugees drowning in the Mediterannean Sea or reaching the shores of Italy today are a direct consequence of that operation. Yet who has been held to account?


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/09/the-wicked-war-on-syria/

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Britain, Libya and the Mediterranean - The Creation of a Humanitarian Emergency

by Dan Glazebrook / May 1st, 2015

Last week’s drownings in the Mediterranean were the foreseeable, and indeed deliberate, a result of the anti-human policies of strategic violence by a dying neo-colonial empire. They were the consequence, firstly, of a series of wars of aggression that have made life intolerable across vast swathes of Africa and West Asia, and, secondly, of the fateful EU decision last November to end Italy’s search-and-rescue programme, Mare Nostrum. This much has been admitted by politicians and commentators from across the entire British political establishment, from Nigel Farage and the Daily Telegraph to David Cameron and Ed Miliband. Whilst these admissions have often been tempered with caveats, denials, distortions and half-truths, the hideous reality behind them is increasingly impossible to deny.

NATO’s war of aggression against Libya in 2011 turned the country over to racist death squads, with hundreds of sub-Saharan migrant workers and black Libyans beaten and burnt to death by the ‘revolutionaries’ and tens of thousands illegally detained and tortured by the militias. Tawergha, the only black African town on the Mediterranean, and formerly home to around 30,000 people, is now a ghost town after NATO’s shock troops – militias with names like the ‘Brigades for the purging of black skins’ – ‘ethnically cleansed’ the region. Last week’s butchering of 30 Ethiopian workers by ISIS is but the latest chapter in the anti-African pogroms that have characterised the Libyan insurgency from the very start. This is the reality of NATO’s ‘Libyan revolution’ (led by AbdulHakim BelHaj, now leader of ISIS in Libya) and it is precisely this from which black Africans in Libya are now fleeing. As Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi put it, “a person has to risk his life because he needs to escape from a situation where they are chopping off the heads of those near him”.

And this head-chopping has not been restricted to Libya’s borders. NATO’s war has boosted head-choppers across the entire region, from Tunisia and Algeria to Mali, Nigeria and Cameroon. Before 2011, Boko Haram barely existed. Today, thanks to NATO opening up Libya’s arsenals to them and their friends, they are killing hundreds every week, often burning them alive in churches and mosques. As one Nigerian told a reporter last week, “We prefer to die trying (to migrate) than stay back there and die….Stay at home and get shot dead or maybe burnt to death; I just prefer to die while trying or survive.”

Yet the Libyan war itself is only the latest in a long series of acts of aggression launched by the British state and its allies, all of which continue to have disastrous consequences across the entire Middle East and North Africa region. A look at the list of where the migrants come from makes this devastatingly clear. The majority of the world’s refugees come from one of three countries: Afghanistan, Somalia and Syria. What all have in common is that they have all been subject to vicious terror campaigns by Britain, the USA and their allies: whether directly, as in Afghanistan; through allied states, as with the US-backed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia in 2006 (which toppled the first stable government the country had had in decades); or through the provision of cash, weapons and diplomatic cover to sectarian death squads, as in the case of Syria. Yemen is the latest additional source of refugees, with the Saudi bombing campaign bringing new arrivals to almost 10,000 per week.


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/05/britain-libya-and-the-mediterranean/

Behind Every Refugee Stands an Arms Trader

http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/04/behind-every-refugee-stands-an-arms-trader/

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Trapped in Libya: the flotsam of the West’s wars

By Vijay Prashad
Source: al-Araby
May 14, 2015

Next week, the EU will launch work on its plan to tackle the Mediterranean migrant crisis. The EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini has asked the UN for help to dismantle the smuggling networks.

European ambassadors have drafted a UN resolution, under chapter VII (which allows use of force), to tackle the crisis. For them the military option is the brightest light. As Mogherini said, the EU wants the authority to “use all necessary means to seize and dispose of the [smugglers’] vessels.

“Thus far in 2015, over 60,000 people have tried to cross from Libya to Europe. Of them, close to two thousand have died – a death toll 20 times higher than in 2014,” it continues.


Since 2011, Libya has been ripped apart, its social fabric torn asunder and its state structure largely absent. Nato’s bombardment precipitously destroyed the state and handed over the country to warring militias.

The threat to the refugees is a direct outcome of UN Security Council Resolution 1973, ironically under the Responsibility to Protect (R2P) banner. A new UNSC resolution is not going to be about the protection of the refugees, but to use force to destroy their lifeline. R2P has been ground under by the West’s behavior in Libya.


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/trapped-in-libya-the-flotsam-of-the-wests-wars/


On Monday, a New York Times story demonstrated more specifically why Clinton's interactions with Blumenthal may have been a bad idea. Blumenthal, the Times reports via solid sources, was advising the Secretary of State both before and after former Libyan autocrat Muammar Qaddafi's death while also advising a group of private individuals who hoped to make money by obtaining reconstruction-type contracts in a post-Qaddafi Libya.

Much of the Libya intelligence that Mr. Blumenthal passed on to Mrs. Clinton appears to have come from a group of business associates he was advising as they sought to win contracts from the Libyan transitional government. The venture, which was ultimately unsuccessful, involved other Clinton friends, a private military contractor and one former C.I.A. spy seeking to get in on the ground floor of the new Libyan economy ...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/18/hillary_clinton_sidney_blumenthal_libya_unofficial_adviser_represented_business.html


The detritus of regime change in Libya

By Vijay Prashad
Source: al-Araby
November 1, 2015

.......In Iraq, parts of the deposed army and some Baath Party members linked up with al-Qaeda in Iraq, and then later the Islamic State of Iraq. It was these motivated and trained men that formed the backbone of the IS advance on Fallujah and Ramadi in 2014.

Much the same story is being repeated with the emergence of IS in Libya. Adversaries of Gaddafi in the 1990s took refuge in the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group; one of whose strongholds was the town of Derna.

These fighters fled the country to join the Jihad International in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq, Yemen and Syria.

It had become a familiar matter to meet an al-Libi in the redoubts of the jihadis. Studies show that Libya provided per capita the highest number of jihadis to this global campaign.


The lesson of Iraq was not learned. It was repeated in Libya. Both countries still hang by a thread. Their people suffer painfully. They have been sacrificed to a theory that is arrogant and erroneous. It deserves a place only in the dustbin of history.


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/the-detritus-of-regime-change-in-libya/


Deadliest Terror in the World: The West’s Latest Gift to Africa


by Dan Glazebrook / November 30th, 2015

Nigeria’s Boko Haram are now officially the deadliest terror group in the world. That they have reached this position is a direct consequence of Cameron and Co’s war on Libya – and one that was perhaps not entirely unintended.

In 2009, the year they took up arms, Boko Haram had nothing like the capacity to mount such operations, and their equipment remained primitive; but by 2011, that had begun to change. As Peter Weber noted in The Week, their weapons “shifted from relatively cheap AK-47s in the early days of its post-2009 embrace of violence to desert-ready combat vehicles and anti-aircraft/ anti-tank guns”. This dramatic turnaround in the group’s access to materiel was the direct result of NATO’s war on Libya. A UN report published in early 2012 warned that “large quantities of weapons and ammunition from Libyan stockpiles were smuggled into the Sahel region”, including “rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns with anti-aircraft visors, automatic rifles, ammunition, grenades, explosives (Semtex), and light anti-aircraft artillery (light caliber bi-tubes) mounted on vehicles”, and probably also more advanced weapons such as surface-to-air missiles and MANPADS (man-portable air-defence systems). NATO had effectively turned over the entire armoury of an advanced industrial state to the region’s most sectarian militias: groups such as the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and Boko Haram.

The earliest casualty of NATO’s war outside Libya was Mali. Taureg fighters who had worked in Gaddafi’s security forces fled Libya soon after Gaddafi’s government was overthrown, and mounted an insurgency in Northern Mali. They, in turn, were overthrown, however, by Al Qaeda’s regional affiliates – flush with Libyan weaponry – who then turned Northern Mali into another base from which to train and launch attacks. Boko Haram was a key beneficiary. As Brendan O’ Neill wrote in an excellent 2014 article worth quoting at length:

Boko Haram benefited enormously from the vacuum created in once-peaceful northern Mali following the West’s ousting of Gaddafi. In two ways: first, it honed its guerrilla skills by fighting alongside more practised Islamists in Mali, such as AQIM; and second, it accumulated some of the estimated 15,000 pieces of Libyan military hardware and weaponry that leaked across the country’s borders following the sweeping aside of Gaddafi. In April 2012, Agence France France Presse reported that ‘dozens of Boko Haram fighters’ were assisting AQIM and others in northern Mali. This had a devastating knock-on effect in Nigeria. As the Washington Post reported in early 2013, ‘The Islamist insurgency in northern Nigeria has entered a more violent phase as militants return to the fight with sophisticated weaponry and tactics learned on the battlefields of nearby Mali’. A Nigerian analyst said ‘Boko Haram’s level of audacity was high [in late 2012]’, immediately following the movement of some of its militants to the Mali region.


That NATO’s Libya war would have such consequences was both thoroughly predictable, and widely predicted. As early as June 2011, African Union Chairman Jean Ping warned NATO that “Africa’s concern is that weapons that are delivered to one side or another…are already in the desert and will arm terrorists and fuel trafficking”. And both Mali and Algeria strongly opposed NATO’s destruction of Libya precisely because of the massive destabilisation it would bring to the region. They argued, wrote O’Neill, “that such a violent upheaval in a region like north Africa could have potentially catastrophic consequences. The fallout from the bombing is ‘a real source of concern’, said the rulers of Mali in October 2011. In fact, as the BBC reported, they had been arguing since ‘the start of the conflict in Libya’ – that is, since the civil conflict between Benghazi-based militants and Gaddafi began – that ‘the fall of Gaddafi would have a destabilising effect in the region’.” In an op-ed following the collapse of Northern Mali, a former Chief of Staff of UK land forces, Major-General Jonathan Shaw, wrote that Colonel Gaddafi was a “lynchpin” of the “informal Sahel security plan”, whose removal therefore led to a foreseeable collapse of security across the entire region. The rise of Boko Haram has been but one result – and not without strategic benefits for the West.


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/11/deadliest-terror-in-the-world-the-wests-latest-gift-to-africa/

Just as much a sham as Iraq, with the exact same results. And on ........ to Syria.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
27. that you're defending this asshole isn't surprising...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:14 AM
Feb 2016

'Prooogressiiivveess' tend to do that.

But calling Salon 'western propoganda' -now that's a hoot!

polly7

(20,582 posts)
28. I'm defending the people of LIBYA and every other nation the west has destroyed.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:15 AM
Feb 2016

Suck on it.

tazkcmo

(7,315 posts)
30. Yay for truth!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:18 AM
Feb 2016

No matter how uncomfortable it is.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
47. Nice cut and paste job.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:31 AM
Feb 2016

polly7

(20,582 posts)
50. Thanks. I trot it out when I see one of these laughing, pro-mass death threads. nt.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:35 AM
Feb 2016

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
18. I applauded his death, too.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:55 AM
Feb 2016

Muammar Gaddafi war crimes files revealed

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/18/muammar-gaddafi-war-crimes-files

Muammar Gaddafi’s sexual crimes

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/22/muammar_gaddafis_sexual_crimes/

You didn't applaud his death? Shame on you.


polly7

(20,582 posts)
22. I'd love to see all of those responsible for Iraq, Libya and the subsequent
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:09 AM
Feb 2016

horror for millions flown over to help pick up the pieces ..... maybe gather up the cluster bombs, shovel up the white phosphorous contaminated dirt in Fallujah. The same with Viet Nam ........ send them over to clean up the remaining Agent Orange. Shame on all of it. But no other country has invaded and destroyed us for our part in ALL of it, have they? Seems odd that we can claim one fucking iota of moral high ground and determine which country is getting a bit too economically stable and powerful and needs decimated.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
25. So you thought is was doing a heckuva job? I see.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:12 AM
Feb 2016

polly7

(20,582 posts)
32. IS and Boko Haram are both a direct result of military intervention/horror.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:18 AM
Feb 2016

Do you have an actual point?

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
34. But you thought he was a great guy. We see by your earlier posts.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:19 AM
Feb 2016

polly7

(20,582 posts)
36. I thought he was trying to do great things for his people.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:21 AM
Feb 2016

And he was .. as well as improving the lot of those in all of Africa.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
38. like locking female sex slaves in his basement and sexually abusing boys
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:23 AM
Feb 2016

From DU progressive's favorite go-to website:

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/22/muammar_gaddafis_sexual_crimes/

polly7

(20,582 posts)
39. I told you above, without proof - I believe NOTHING from western sources.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:24 AM
Feb 2016

I bet you fell for yellow-cake and mushroom clouds, right?

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
40. the only proof you'd accept is first-hand experience of his atrocities, I suppose...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:26 AM
Feb 2016

While you trot personal opinions and your own sources (that you have no proof of), you're more than happy to defend a “a thug and murderer ” (Bernie Sanders quote.)

polly7

(20,582 posts)
44. I couldn't care less what Bernie Sanders said ..... I don't agree with anyone all of the time.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:29 AM
Feb 2016

I've learned everything I need to know about WHY Libya had to be destroyed. Most here have, I'm surprised to see anyone still defending it. The majority of IS recruits have come from Libya. But that's probably not considered a bad thing because now we get to go into Syria and SAVE those people being slaughtered by them - of course Syria was already on the regime change/hit-list, how convenient, right?

As well as Boko Haram in Africa, now free to rape, burn alive and slaughter. Gaddafi had kept a lid on religious fanatics.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
48. You are barking at the Moon Wolf
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:32 AM
Feb 2016

The internets are full of these types of people.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
49. it's fun watching them twist themselves in knots to defend a “a thug and murderer ”
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:33 AM
Feb 2016
 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
54. You're the one who's twisting, lying and misrepresenting ,
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:38 AM
Feb 2016

but that's why you support Hillary.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
56. show me an example of that.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:40 AM
Feb 2016

polly7

(20,582 posts)
73. Yeah ......... the types with brains capable of seeing past the pro-war/death propaganda nt.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:04 PM
Feb 2016

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
19. President Truman applauds the deaths of Hitler and Mussolini. "I am very happy."
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:59 AM
Feb 2016

'the two war criminals will not have to come to trial,' Truman said, 'and I am very happy' [View all]

“Mr. President,” the reporter began, “would you care to comment on the death of Adolf Hitler reported, or Mussolini?”

Truman’s response indicated the looming problem of how to serve justice to Axis leaders who had wrought such havoc on Europe.
“Well, of course, the two principal war criminals will not have to come to trial,” Truman said, “and I am very happy they are out of the way.”

http://www.examiner.net/article/20150430/NEWS/150439985

Notice Truman is only happy a brutal dictator was dead. He wasn't 'gleeful' like Hillary.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
31. There's so much to be happy about
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:18 AM
Feb 2016
Human rights conditions in Libya further deteriorated during 2015, as militias and forces on all sides of the conflict carried out war crimes and crimes against humanity with impunity, Human Rights Watch said today in its World Report 2016. Armed conflict has engulfed the country since July 2014, resulting in the formation of two governments competing for legitimacy, one in the east and one in the west.

The hostilities have led to the displacement of 400,000 people, a breakdown in law and order, paralysis of the justice system, an increase in kidnappings for ransom and enforced disappearances, and the spread of extremist groups such as the Islamic State (also known as ISIS). Tens of thousands of migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers transited through Libya on their way toward Europe, facing perilous sea journeys.


https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/27/libya-growing-human-rights-crisis

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
35. “a terrible dictator” , “a thug and murderer ” - Bernie Sanders quotes before voting to remove him
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:21 AM
Feb 2016
 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
41. Yup he sure did vote for
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:27 AM
Feb 2016

"peaceful regime change." Nice try but you lose.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
43. after differing with the 'he was a swell guy' sentiments of his followers here
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:28 AM
Feb 2016

But tell me - how do you peacefully remove a dictator?

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
52. Swell guy? Where does it say that?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:35 AM
Feb 2016

There are ways to topple a dictator without bombing their country back into the stone age. Educate yourself. I know, I know, it's hard!!1!11

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/a-military-manual-for-nonviolent-war/?_r=0

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
53. Why not educate us all and give us examples
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:37 AM
Feb 2016

... I mean, after the dictator turned down peaceful offers like he did.

Was I supposed to end my sentence with !!11!11?

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
55. I just did
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:40 AM
Feb 2016

I understand reading isn't your thing but try it out at the link I posted, you might actully learn something and then you won't have to resort to dissimulating and embarrassing yourself.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
58. no you didn't
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:41 AM
Feb 2016

Read my request again and get back to me. (hint: you're relying on an editorial. be sure he's right.)

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
61. Read my link and get back to me
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:43 AM
Feb 2016

Or better yet, don't.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
62. I did, then I got back to you. You're not following this discussion very well.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:43 AM
Feb 2016
 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
65. No you didn't
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
Feb 2016

What did you learn? hellloooooooo? Is anybody home? Evidently this is just a game of Neener neener to you. No grasp of debate, just keep saying "nuh uh" over and over again.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
67. yes I did. I read it then asked you a question. You're choosing to refer us back to your editorial
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

That isn't an answer.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
71. You asked me to educate you
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:00 PM
Feb 2016

I gave you a long, detailed article which you never read and demanded that I "educate you."

It's obvious you can't defend Hillary's creepy, pathological, warmongering behavior and have to resort to deflection and dissimulating but that's not my problem. I can't "educate" someone who refuses to be educated.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
72. and instead you referred me to an editorial that doesn't make your point.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:01 PM
Feb 2016
 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
74. It most certainly does
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:06 PM
Feb 2016

But you didn't read it so you wouldn't know.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
77. it certainly does not.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:09 PM
Feb 2016
 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
79. neener neener
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:14 PM
Feb 2016

It gives multiple examples of nonviolent regime change, which you asked for and now you refuse to acknowledge.

wyldwolf

(43,875 posts)
81. I thought you had the discussion skills of a kid. You just confirmed it.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:18 PM
Feb 2016

72DejaVu

(1,545 posts)
23. Bernie should call her out on that at the next debate!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:10 AM
Feb 2016

The American people loved Gaddafi!

AZ Jim

(70 posts)
64. WHAT???
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
Feb 2016

I assume you are kidding!!!

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
75. It's called "dripping with sarcasm"
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:06 PM
Feb 2016

AZ Jim

(70 posts)
78. In these times one never knows.....
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:12 PM
Feb 2016

nt

ancianita

(36,327 posts)
42. Yeah she needs to stop that laughing at death shit. Bad form.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:27 AM
Feb 2016
 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
70. She also laughed when "apologizing" for her IWR vote.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:00 PM
Feb 2016

It was like 'oops, my bad. It was a hard choice...I made a mistake <cackle>'.
That vid is on YouTube if someone can find it.
I was appalled. That cavalier attitude towards death and suffering, most of which is civilian non-combatants inc women and children, is what I expect from a psychopath.
It seriously concerns me what she would do as Commander in Chief. How many people would die to sate her blood-lust? Probably quite a lot...anybody that ambitious for ultimate power intends to use it.
And that's just the military. She would also have control over the intelligence apparatus. Given her traits of secrecy and paranoia, she's sure to vastly expand NSA spying...and perhaps use it against her enemies.
There's just too much risk to take that chance.

ancianita

(36,327 posts)
82. I'm fully aware that she signals her covering feelings of guilt. However, we shouldn't be parading
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:21 PM
Feb 2016

breast beaters before the world. Force is still a global value.

So, while I don't agree with our death dealing, I don't want our would-be leaders to have to apologize to a world that would eat us as soon as ally with us.

And no, I won't be convinced that if we're nice to the world it will be nice back.

Reciprocity is not yet a global value.

We know what happens when countries "go first" in good will gestures.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
85. No one is proposing disarming.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:37 PM
Feb 2016

However, the U.S. spends a vast amount on the military, much of it wasteful. Despite all this spending, the 'War on Terror' is an abject failure...more terrorists are being created than eliminated. Of all the candidates D and R, only one is proposing we inject some sanity into our foreign policy.

ancianita

(36,327 posts)
87. I get that. And I hope she comes up with some other emotion when confronted with our murders.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:40 PM
Feb 2016

But two responses are not the defining feature of her morality or personality.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
46. The 5000 or so
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:29 AM
Feb 2016

ISIS fighters in Libya may be laughing also

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
57. Nothing like doing her version of a Julius Caesar quote in an Islamic country.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:40 AM
Feb 2016

oasis

(49,704 posts)
60. A despicable sponsor of terrorism is held above a dedicated public
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:42 AM
Feb 2016

servant. We can do much better people.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
76. It was a display of her "foreign policy experience".
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:08 PM
Feb 2016
 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
86. When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:40 PM
Feb 2016

pokhum

(3 posts)
80. Hell Yehhhhh!!!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:16 PM
Feb 2016

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
90. hmm. nt
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:05 PM
Feb 2016

Oneironaut

(5,568 posts)
83. Vile hubris - the type that topples nations.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:23 PM
Feb 2016

That's why the world is such a mess.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
84. War is hell.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:24 PM
Feb 2016

War is hell.

What future do we want?

Vote for Bernie for a better world.

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