The OP has already been shown that they are incorrect and declared they will not edit anything. They don't care about being dishonest and spreading disinformation in the name of Hillary. So be it.

People can easily see it's not the truth.

As for what you really have to pay for in Bernie's plan here it is:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all

It will be a tax on income.

For retirees, it might change from what it is now, it might not. I don't know.

But Bernie's plan is not going make matters worse.

And, you cannot base your concern for the new system on a set figure of $1200 per year.

It will not be exactly as you say.

People will have a tax on their income, and their premiums for health insurance will disappear.

Concern noted, and not warranted.

... which was the way corporatist politicians tried to give more back to the insurance companies that bought them. Already Obama has tried to reign those costs in with legislation too. When Medicare is also allowed to negotiate for lower pharma drug prices, then perhaps we'll be able to pay more real prices closer to what other countries have to pay for the same drugs. Another part of getting rid of the rigged system that hands out money to insurance company and pharma company crooks.

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The OP has already been shown that they are incorrect and declared they will not edit anything. They don't care about being dishonest and spreading disinformation in the name of Hillary. So be it.

People can easily see it's not the truth at his site.

See my other reply to you.

I sat with my boss 3 years ago and discussed employee healthcare, and weather I wanted to have it come out of my check, or have the company cover it. It was made clear to me that it would slow and shrink the size of future raises, and that I may later be asked to contribute. Today I contribute $10 a week plus $1 for optometry. That costs me about $10,000 a year plus $552 more in direct contributions. And I know he's paying more than $10k for mine.

So I don't care whether you call it a tax, a fee, or rent. If I can pay $2000 and my boss pay $6000 instead of what we both pay now, that leaves at minimum $2500 on the table and up to $3k. Then you do away with premiums and the Insurance companies operational control of the administrative function and replacing it with the "Medicare" administrative model (i.e. removing the blood sucking vampires from the financial operations), and I can get back to expecting a bigger raise next year.

That's how it works.

and have healthcare?

As she says "Every Democrat should be outraged!"

These hillarians are REALLY getting desperate, seeing how their annointed inevitable one is fading across the country. And her negatives will only go up as her team lies through their teeth like giving half the story about taxes and medical issues.

So you wind up better off. And if you don't know that, you aren't paying attention or being willfully ignorant.

So which is it?

savings. Not exact but the truth. People are not as stupid as you think. You might go back to the Hillary people and try something else.

Did you lose your way?

Bernie's plans don't raise expenditures for most Americans. But unless you're making 200k or more a year, your taxes are going to go up less than the amount you're no longer paying for mandated health insurance. Most Americans are smart enough to realize that it actually is GOOD for them to pay 3k more in taxes, and 5k less on health insurance a year. So yeah, it's a good selling point, unless, of course, you think most Americans are stupid. Bernie doesn't think they're stupid.

The OP has already been shown that they are incorrect and declared they will not edit anything. They don't care about being dishonest and spreading disinformation in the name of Hillary. So be it.

This what a family would pay with Bernie's plan:

Democrats. Democrats used to have the courage to raise taxes in order to save social services, not anymore. Bernie will expand social services and make the rich pay their fair share of the taxes.

... and try to convince everyone that it's the best thing since paper napkins. But it's one that will definitely be a liability to him in the general election.

THANK GOD we won't have to worry about THAT!! Bernie will NOT be the nominee, and he can go right back to the Senate where he belongs. I'm sure he'll be able to be much more productive there than he would be as president.

Go, Hillary! We love you!

Even Forbes knows the OP is false...



http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2016/01/17/bernie-sanders-releases-tax-plan-nations-rich-recoil-in-horror/#677609a97340

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Go Hillary

You pay less than $100 a year but do not have to pay for health care as you do now.

Yeah, that's a terrible idea saving us money and all.

That's just what I expect of Republicans.

total federal revenue JUST to pay for his single payer plan. That's not counting anything else he wants to do.

Do Sanders supporters really truly believe that is ever going to happen? That federal taxes are going to sudden double and only the rich are going to have to pay substantial additional taxes?

Is there any economic model for how much tax increases of that magnitude, no matter how distributed, would effect the overall economy?

Sanders himself admits as much:

Sanders doesn’t just call for incremental steps toward single-payer. He’s proposing to shift all of health care to federal taxes in one fell swoop. That’s one reason for the enormous, sudden increase in taxes the plan would require—$1.38 trillion on top of existing federal spending, according to Sanders’ own estimates. As Harold Pollack has pointed out, that $1.38 trillion is just about equal to total federal income and estate tax collections in 2014—in other words, the plan would require doubling that revenue.Sanders insists that he’s shown how he would pay for it through a 6.2 increase in payroll taxes (which he calls an “income-based premium paid by employers,” though the cost will fall on employees); a 2.2 percent increase in income taxes on everyone; higher estate taxes; taxing capital gains and interest as ordinary income; limiting tax deductions for the rich; and higher income-tax rates on the upper brackets (which, combined with other increased taxes he’s also calling for, would bring the top marginal federal rate to 77 percent, as Dylan Matthews shows at Vox).

But Sanders’s estimate of the needed increase in taxation, despite its whopping size, is too low. The plan would actually cost another $1.1 trillion a year, according to an analysis by Kenneth Thorpe, a health-care economist at Emory University, who has long experience working with single-payer proponents. In 2006, the Vermont legislature hired Thorpe to cost out a single-payer proposal, and in 2014 progressive legislators in Vermont hired him again. So this is not an estimate from an economist generally opposed to universal health care or to single-payer. Thorpe’s estimates indicate that workers would have to pay an additional 20 percent of compensation to pay for Sanders’s plan.

but his supporters don't want to here it.

Can you show me the figures please?

.

Perhaps, you'll feel more comfortable in the Repub Party with this BS.

Enough of this bullshit

Is it better for you: 1) to have to figure out how to get and pay for health insurance for your employees, or 2) to have every new hire come to you already covered, so you can focus on growing your business?

Which is better?

Not a good selling point for someone raising a supposedly serious question.

It's not their job to defend their posts. Their job is to post them. Thinking not required

... when they just want to stir up controversy and not try to really defend a point of view worth defending.

hard to discern, but lower health care costs more than make up for a slight increase on taxes.

At least you didn't pull the "Socialist" rather than "Democratic Socialist" meme on us. Other than his D- NRA rating, this is the fourth leg to the Smear/Shady element of anti-Bernie.

Bad on healthcare/millions won't have any...Raising taxes...Socialist...gun nut. Such inauthenticity, but typical Clinton.

Did I forget anything? Oh yes, big problem with POC...a 95% rating with the NAACP.

Seriously, this absurd and dishonest argument has been played out a dozen times already. You aren't fooling anyone, and at this point you are insulting your own intelligence by trying.

This has been explained by him numerous times. Hillary prefers to pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class, but she really offers no tax break for escalating health insurance premiums except continue the ACA approach.

If you were better informed, you just might become a Bernie supporter ...

And you freaking know this - or your as uninformed as most gop fuckwits.

There will be no private insurance premiums. the tax will be on the speculative Wall ST market and there will be a tax on billionaires and millionaires that have their money in tax havens.

This talking point is becoming old.

Oh and by the way in case you missed this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511163954

Sounds like a great deal to me! Saves Main Street businesses money, saves Main Street workers money. All the better that it's paid for by the Romneys, Dimons, Blankfeins, and Pharma Bros. Time we got back the money they've been stealing from us.

More Republican talking points. Paul Ryan called, he is missing his feelings.

People wills ave a shit ton of cash due to single payer. Come on, enough with the Republican red baiting talking points. Same shit GOP did to Obama with the ACA. Identical. "Obamacare is a tax increase" crap.

except property taxes, neither Hillory or Bernie have any so in those. Main Street is Socialism in progress. The rest of the town is subsidizing Main Street. The stores are not making the rent since they paid the Chamber of Commerce to attract Big Boxes to put them out of business.

Bernie offers a trade off. Pay a little more in taxes, pay a lot less to insurance companies.

in health care premiums, free higher education, paid family leave, expanded social security...

In the end Main Street comes out ahead.

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but no one else is. He needs more people.

Hey I like the guy, just not for President.

Now that you know the truth, you can edit your OP and prove me wrong.

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Bernie admitted he will increase taxes. I applaud his honesty,but still I pay enough in taxes. I am trying to keep my head above water.

If you are trying to keep your head above water now, it won't be any different with Bernie except that you will have many added benefits that you don't now.

Sorry to burst your propaganda bubble. Thank you for revealing how utterly dishonest you are being.

If taxes are such a 'concern' for you, why don't you vote for Trump?

.

Or 15 times my tax increase.

..who will have to give up a yacht, private jet, or that new Summer Home in Aspen.
Those poor Millionaires.
Bernie is so mean to them.
Can I gt a few DU tears for them?

This thread is about trying to catapult a Hillary Campaign talking point that, while there is an element of truth, is intentionally misleading. Those catapulting this kind of intentional mis-information disgust me. I wouldn't do what you are doing for ANY amount of money. I would rather live in a hollow log and drink dirty water.

You know damn good and well that any tax increase will be more than offset by huge savings in Health Insurance Premiums, deductibles, and co-pays, and reduced tuition for our investment in our children.

Please post a link to where "the middle class" will have their taxes increased.
Do you know who the "Middle Class" is, because Hillary proved she doesn't have the first clue.

I think small businesses are hurt a lot by the onerous expectations that they not only need to employ people, but that they also need to be the primary source of benefits for their employees. How is it helpful for a small business that wants to be a good employer, but has to navigate the world of health insurance and 401k plans? Is this really where they should be spending their time? Or is this something the government can take on and in return, the small business and employees pay a few extra tax points? Time and energy and hassle with things the majority of us don't fully understand is hugely burdensome.

I purchased my own healthcare on California's exchange and the number of plans with various cost structures is overwhelming.

Or is it magically OK because you call them "premiums" instead of "taxes"?

Because when you discuss the issues it's republican talking points all the way!! All you Hillary people whining about taxes are clueless about the tax system, just like the GOP. You can't even get the correct premise in your foolish arguments! what a waste of fucking time, I might as well be on Discussionist or Free Republic!

You are repeating falsehoods. Try Berniesanders.com and get the full story. His plan saves working people lots of money.

That is a MASSIVE shift in the US economy. Unparalleled in US history.

Sanders doesn’t just call for incremental steps toward single-payer. He’s proposing to shift all of health care to federal taxes in one fell swoop. That’s one reason for the enormous, sudden increase in taxes the plan would require—$1.38 trillion on top of existing federal spending, according to Sanders’ own estimates. As Harold Pollack has pointed out, that $1.38 trillion is just about equal to total federal income and estate tax collections in 2014—in other words, the plan would require doubling that revenue.Sanders insists that he’s shown how he would pay for it through a 6.2 increase in payroll taxes (which he calls an “income-based premium paid by employers,” though the cost will fall on employees); a 2.2 percent increase in income taxes on everyone; higher estate taxes; taxing capital gains and interest as ordinary income; limiting tax deductions for the rich; and higher income-tax rates on the upper brackets (which, combined with other increased taxes he’s also calling for, would bring the top marginal federal rate to 77 percent, as Dylan Matthews shows at Vox).

But Sanders’s estimate of the needed increase in taxation, despite its whopping size, is too low. The plan would actually cost another $1.1 trillion a year, according to an analysis by Kenneth Thorpe, a health-care economist at Emory University, who has long experience working with single-payer proponents. In 2006, the Vermont legislature hired Thorpe to cost out a single-payer proposal, and in 2014 progressive legislators in Vermont hired him again. So this is not an estimate from an economist generally opposed to universal health care or to single-payer. Thorpe’s estimates indicate that workers would have to pay an additional 20 percent of compensation to pay for Sanders’s plan.

including lines like "paid by employers but the cost will really fall on employees" - just a hit piece that has been disputed by economists.

What do you pay now for health care? Dental? The working people get a good deal with Bernie's plan and do business owners.

When you do a real cost benefit analysis I think unbiased minds conclude that Bernie is right in the money with this plan.

But I would gladly more in taxes - even more than the 2.2% in Sanders proposal - to have health CARE instead of health INSURANCE and to save some money on copy's and deductible and premiums.

And I consider $1.65 a week a great investment in paid family leave.

Middle class will be getting more from a Sanders administration I don't see any middle class family struggling with the tax proposals of Sen Sanders.

But stoke the fire of misinformation. People aren't as easily fooled and scared by right wing propaganda as they once were.

just for the priveledge of being able to see a doctor

if a person pays $1,000 more in taxes but doesn't have to make a $6,000 health insurance premium payment, they're up $5,000. Want to talk about the real money? College?

the cost of everything goes up. "Main street", in choosing Sanders, is hoping to finally see some benefit from the taxes they pay.

I think you're being facetious or perhaps very unstudied of the issues. Bernie's explained that several times and Hillary is using an old slogan to attract those to who takes things at face value. Of course she will raise taxes if she needs to just as George HW did. Pay more attention is my advice

But you knew that.

Close the loopholes, end entitlements and hand outs for the wealthy and actually prosecute the tax evaders.

actually you and your cohorts sound like freepers. All day everyday.

So take your Fox nation bullshit somewhere where other idiots might believe it.

Just asking....

But what on earth are u talking about?

Why does she think we could continue to pay premiums for a product many people can't afford to use thanks to large out of pocket expenses?

When she WINS, Hillary is going to make sure the remaining 10% get insurance coverage.

If you have $6,000 deductible you may not be able to afford a trip to the doctor when you need one.

There was an article in the local paper this week that hospitals in the area are seeing an increase in bills that aren't being paid - and Minnesota has one of the highest "coverage" rates in the country.

We remain the only western nation that allows its citizens to be driven to bankruptcy by medical bills.

I have the ACA; and 95% of my claims are DENIED because those motherfuckers at the CDC won't acknowledge chronic Lyme disease-because insurance companies don't want them to. Lyme infects over 400,000 American EVERY DAMN YEAR! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of my income goes to cover my medical bills. I live off my swiftly dwindling retirement, which I wasn't supposed to touch for another 20 years. Getting these greedy Hillary funding Insurance assholes out of the equation is the only way that millions of us are going to have a prayer of survival. It's all about "winning", vaginas, and party purity to you. IT'S ABOUT SURVIVAL FOR THE REST OF US!

No wonder you're a Hillary fan.