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libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:38 PM Feb 2016

Who whould FDR support?

During President Roosevelt's January 11, 1944 message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union, he said the following:[2]

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”[3] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights
74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who whould FDR support? (Original Post) libtodeath Feb 2016 OP
FDR Would feel the Bern and so would Eleanor and Fala . orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #1
None of us will ever really know (nt) bigwillq Feb 2016 #2
Who is campaigning on his principles? libtodeath Feb 2016 #3
O'Malley? bigwillq Feb 2016 #6
Yep. A mystery wrapped in an enigma tk2kewl Feb 2016 #19
Right? I hate these. There's another one with MLK, and I hate that people ScreamingMeemie Feb 2016 #23
Silly Season! bigwillq Feb 2016 #30
... Allegedly. Agschmid Feb 2016 #36
Let me think I am bigwillq Feb 2016 #43
FDR of course, his last wishes were pretty much Democratic Socialism AZ Progressive Feb 2016 #4
Really he picked an obscure Sen. to be his VP..... Historic NY Feb 2016 #7
So I guess you think his economic bill of rights was a lie? libtodeath Feb 2016 #9
I just told you what he did.... Historic NY Feb 2016 #13
"but to challenge Congress to draft legislation to achieve these goals." libtodeath Feb 2016 #16
In 1945........... Historic NY Feb 2016 #32
Its FDR's own words, unless your saying that FDR was bullshitting, which I don't believe to be so AZ Progressive Feb 2016 #10
Stop trying to pretend that you are on the right side of the political divide AZ Progressive Feb 2016 #11
No you are I seen some more of your posts........ Historic NY Feb 2016 #14
Who whould FDR support? stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #5
LOL...Good one Armstead Feb 2016 #18
So would Jesus, Joseph, Moses, John the Baptist and MLK! leftofcool Feb 2016 #45
FDR would back Bernie. Hillary gets Kissinger. Broward Feb 2016 #8
That rather beggars the imagination hifiguy Feb 2016 #20
Wonderful post Carolina Feb 2016 #12
God, I feel old. He said that 50 days before I was born. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #15
This is a trick question, right? hifiguy Feb 2016 #17
Given his words it should not be but to some it seems to be. libtodeath Feb 2016 #21
The Democrat. George II Feb 2016 #22
I think it borders on self-aggrandizement to say the dead speak for you when they can't speak for upaloopa Feb 2016 #27
Yeah, its pretty amazing how many people who are no longer with us....... George II Feb 2016 #31
You mean Bernie don't you. The other one is a corporatist. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #38
Perhaps we should hold a seance and find out KingFlorez Feb 2016 #24
Hillary supposedly channeled Eleanor at one time libtodeath Feb 2016 #25
Dunno because he is dead. wildeyed Feb 2016 #26
Guess you think his own words mean nothing. libtodeath Feb 2016 #28
They are very nice. wildeyed Feb 2016 #29
I can see from his own words what he supported libtodeath Feb 2016 #33
What is shameful wildeyed Feb 2016 #34
Shameful is seeing FDR dispareged here because his policies and goals were actually liberal. libtodeath Feb 2016 #35
Discussing the legacy of historical wildeyed Feb 2016 #39
His legacy is what Bernie is standing for,not Hillary libtodeath Feb 2016 #41
No. wildeyed Feb 2016 #44
I put his legacy in the OP libtodeath Feb 2016 #48
It is not painful for me. wildeyed Feb 2016 #52
You put a partial legacy into your OP. Agschmid Feb 2016 #61
FDR's own words... Presidential Proclamation No. 2537 Agschmid Feb 2016 #37
Another slur against FDR,never said he was perfect in every way but his vision of economic justice libtodeath Feb 2016 #40
Facts and actual actions ARE NOT a slur. Agschmid Feb 2016 #42
When they can't defend their position, wildeyed Feb 2016 #47
You deny that FDR said what I put in the OP? libtodeath Feb 2016 #51
I dunno. wildeyed Feb 2016 #53
Bernie. Fans of FDR support Bernie. Its a natural affinity. RiverLover Feb 2016 #46
Thank you libtodeath Feb 2016 #49
No. wildeyed Feb 2016 #50
Sure,after you have spent how many posts libtodeath Feb 2016 #54
I am not attacking him. wildeyed Feb 2016 #55
Cool story. libtodeath Feb 2016 #57
Sure is, bro. wildeyed Feb 2016 #59
Here is a nonprofit org & its website which you clearly would benefit from perusing~ RiverLover Feb 2016 #56
She is not. wildeyed Feb 2016 #58
Wow. I have 3 books on the man & his photo on my freakin wall. Look at my profile. RiverLover Feb 2016 #60
No. wildeyed Feb 2016 #62
Not memes. Painfully obvious truths to anyone paying attention. RiverLover Feb 2016 #63
GAH! An MLK meme!!!!!! wildeyed Feb 2016 #64
Shallow. RiverLover Feb 2016 #65
mirror wildeyed Feb 2016 #72
The Four Freedoms speech. longship Feb 2016 #66
These sorts of posts are really silly mythology Feb 2016 #67
I really wish that people would remember FDR as he really was One of the 99 Feb 2016 #68
Nobody is trying to deify him libtodeath Feb 2016 #69
Not trying to tear him down One of the 99 Feb 2016 #70
I dont but his detractors suddenly seem to. libtodeath Feb 2016 #71
Did I post anything that was not the truth? One of the 99 Feb 2016 #74
Traditional New Deal progressives finally have a candidate... And that is what matters. tokenlib Feb 2016 #73

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
23. Right? I hate these. There's another one with MLK, and I hate that people
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:27 PM
Feb 2016

just throw those names around. Boy, it's silly in here.

Historic NY

(37,451 posts)
7. Really he picked an obscure Sen. to be his VP.....
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:00 PM
Feb 2016

one that really wasn't influenced by the bullshit. FDR went through staff on a regular basis. He was no fan of VP Wallace who if he died would start disassembling his work and policies. So He wouldn't have picked a BS and no his last wishes weren't Democratic Socialism.

Historic NY

(37,451 posts)
13. I just told you what he did....
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:13 PM
Feb 2016

He couldn't stand Wallace and replaced him on the ticket...sorta speaks to preserving his legacy doesn't it.

This tiny portion was in Franklin Delano Roosevelt's State of the Union to Congress. It was not to amend the Constitution, but to challenge Congress to draft legislation to achieve these goals.

Historic NY

(37,451 posts)
32. In 1945...........
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:04 AM
Feb 2016

you want to roll the clock back to start 71 yrs after a state of the union was delivered to a Congress . If you think this Congress will, then you need serious help. You have no case to rest with a Republican Congress. Have a nice daydream.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
10. Its FDR's own words, unless your saying that FDR was bullshitting, which I don't believe to be so
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:05 PM
Feb 2016

Unless you are really that cynical...

Historic NY

(37,451 posts)
14. No you are I seen some more of your posts........
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:15 PM
Feb 2016

apparently your trying to figure out if dead people would support Bernie.

EOM. I can't argue with a table leg.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
20. That rather beggars the imagination
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:22 PM
Feb 2016

because it is true. HRH bragging about being friends with a wanted war criminal is NOT a plus in the eyes of anyone old enough to remember the old butcher in his "heyday."

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
12. Wonderful post
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:08 PM
Feb 2016

FDR is smiling from the heavens as he watches Bernie's ideals and ideas gain traction with the American people.

K&R!

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
27. I think it borders on self-aggrandizement to say the dead speak for you when they can't speak for
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:33 PM
Feb 2016

themselves.

But it is nice to see people acknowledge that at least one member of the 1% wasn't out to get the 99%.

George II

(67,782 posts)
31. Yeah, its pretty amazing how many people who are no longer with us.......
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:53 PM
Feb 2016

.......have been mentioned in speculative "endorsement" OPs!

Funny thing, some who chime in on those endorsements have the gall to use a picture of Che Guevara as their signatures here.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
29. They are very nice.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:43 PM
Feb 2016

And he was a great leader and great American. But his actions speak louder than his words. They show he was a very deft politician with a complex legacy. These are things I know because I read books about him, as opposed to hearing another deft politician make speeches that appropriate and overly simplify history.

And he is still dead and you still don't know who he would vote for. Neither do I.

You should stop arguing now. Because there is no way you can prove you know who a dead man would vote for. It's silly.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
34. What is shameful
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:43 AM
Feb 2016

is lacking the critical thinking skills to ascertain the difference between political rhetoric and actual policy.

I would like you to particularly note the part, quoted below, where FDR did not support anti-lynching legislation because it offended southern white politicians, and he needed their votes on other bills. How is this supporting a "second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed."? Because looks like blacks got thrown under the bus on this one. And that IS shameful. LYNCHING. He was ok with LYNCHING as long as he got the votes on the other bills. This is disgusting. But also not surprising if you understand how politics ACTUALLY works.

My statement stands. FDR was an establishment politician, and trying to guess who he would vote for on the basis of one quote is silly. Go read a book about the guy, 'k? Here, I will get you started with a few articles. I chose works by Howard Zinn since he was a socialist or some sort of approximation of that.

He promised Americans a "New Deal," but he had very few specifics. In fact, FDR was in many ways a cautious, even conservative, politician. The one clear idea he had in mind when he took office was to cut the federal budget, and the person he hired to do that job was his budget director, a conservative Congressman from Arizona named Lewis Douglas. He was also initially reluctant to use the power of government to regulate business practices, create jobs or to support union organizing or struggling farmers. He was clear from the beginning, however, that core values were at stake--articulated in his first Inaugural Address. That is what created the ground--and support--for his pragmatic experimentation.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/11/fdr-wasnt-fdr-until-his-hand-was-forced.html


When the New Deal was over, capitalism remained intact. The rich still controlled the nation's wealth, as well as its laws, courts, police, newspapers, churches, colleges. Enough help had been given to enough people to make Roosevelt a hero to millions, but the same system that had brought depression and crisis-the system of waste, of inequality, of concern for profit over human need- remained.

For black people, the New Deal was psychologically encouraging (Mrs. Roosevelt was sympathetic; some blacks got posts in the administration), but most blacks were ignored by the New Deal programs. As tenant farmers, as farm laborers, as migrants, as domestic workers, they didn't qualify for unemployment insurance, minimum wages, social security, or farm subsidies. Roosevelt, careful not to offend southern white politicians whose political support he needed, did not push a bill against lynching. Blacks and whites were segregated in the armed forces. And black workers were discriminated against in getting jobs. They were the last hired, the first fired. Only when A. Philip Randolph, head of the Sleeping-Car Porters Union, threatened a massive march on Washington in 1941 would Roosevelt agree to sign an executive order establishing a Fair Employment Practices Committee. But the FEPC had no enforcement powers and changed little.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnselhel15.html

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
35. Shameful is seeing FDR dispareged here because his policies and goals were actually liberal.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:57 AM
Feb 2016

It is just sickening the last couple of days how low Clinton supporters have to sink.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
39. Discussing the legacy of historical
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:08 AM
Feb 2016

figures is not shameful. That is one of the things we do here. You are just mad because you don't have skills to keep up.

Go read a book about the man. There are dozens of really good ones. He a fascinating and complex historical figure

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
61. You put a partial legacy into your OP.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:54 AM
Feb 2016

We couldn't fit the whole thing in a OP on DU, the man was president for a long time.

Also I don't think posting one of his actions constitutes an "attack".

He was a good president, but as has been pointed out, is dead. It's very unlikely he will be making any endorsements in 2016.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
40. Another slur against FDR,never said he was perfect in every way but his vision of economic justice
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:10 AM
Feb 2016

is timeless.

Once again it is sickening the depths the Clinton supporters have to go to excuse their candidate.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
42. Facts and actual actions ARE NOT a slur.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:17 AM
Feb 2016

He was a good president he made mistakes, he is now dead. Dead people don't make endorsements, and you don't get to cherry pick their policy positions to pretend they did.

I'm going to overlook your personal insult against me, and stick to the issues here. You should probably do the same.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
47. When they can't defend their position,
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:27 AM
Feb 2016

they go straight to ad hominem and ergo decedo attacks. Tedious. Since this entire thread started with a historical fallacy, I guess I am not surprised.


SHAMEFUL!!!!!!11!!! lol

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
46. Bernie. Fans of FDR support Bernie. Its a natural affinity.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:25 AM
Feb 2016

Corporate candidates are the antithesis of FDR.








libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
49. Thank you
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:30 AM
Feb 2016

To see Clinton apologists sink to the level of attacking this great man makes me want to puke.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
50. No.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:31 AM
Feb 2016

Well maybe if you are silly enough to be a "fan" of a dead politician.....

I am a Hillary Clinton supporter, and also clearly enthusiastic about FDR. You do not own him, or even understand what he actually did. Bernie Sanders does not own him either. He is mine too.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
54. Sure,after you have spent how many posts
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:35 AM
Feb 2016

attacking him and his policies because Hillary does not support them.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
56. Here is a nonprofit org & its website which you clearly would benefit from perusing~
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:41 AM
Feb 2016
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/

Hillary is the antithesis of FDR. Only in her rhetoric is she similar.

We Won't Be Fooled Again.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
58. She is not.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:50 AM
Feb 2016

Remember, I read books so I know more about the man than you do. Memes? Really?

Dunno what the link you posted has to do with anything.

Won't be fooled again is a song by The Who.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
60. Wow. I have 3 books on the man & his photo on my freakin wall. Look at my profile.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:51 AM
Feb 2016

You just showed the shallow depths from which you speak.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
62. No.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:54 AM
Feb 2016

I'm not going to look at your profile. Boring. Make you argument here.

You posted memes as a response to an argument about FDR, so I don't think you are in a position to accuse others of shallowness.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
64. GAH! An MLK meme!!!!!!
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:04 AM
Feb 2016

Now you got me! Run away, run away! The truthiness is so terrifying!!!!!



You are mixing up your dead guys now, you know that, right?

longship

(40,416 posts)
66. The Four Freedoms speech.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:21 AM
Feb 2016

January 6, 1941 before congress.

Short version:



A more complete one:


BTW, the only reason why I support this thread is because of FDR, not in anyway to support the utterly idiotic question at its core, as if anybody could answer it. It is just an invitation to a heated argument.

No DURec here.
 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
67. These sorts of posts are really silly
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:29 AM
Feb 2016

There's no way to prove either way. It's just silly suppositions designed to cloak your preferred candidate with a highly regarded figure who can longer speak for themselves and magically you find that they would support your candidate.

It's amazing how that works. You never find that the highly regarded dead person would even possibly support the other candidate. It's almost like you had your conclusion before you started or something.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
68. I really wish that people would remember FDR as he really was
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:33 AM
Feb 2016

not some idealized version of him. And don't get me wrong, I think FDR was one of our greatest Presidents. But the man had flaws. He signed the order interning Japanese-Americans. He turned a blind-eye to segregation in the South. He created the military industrial complex, embracing and enriching corporate leaders.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
69. Nobody is trying to deify him
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:43 AM
Feb 2016

just point out that his stated economic principles are exactly what Bernie is standing for today.

I see people trying to tear him down because that is an inconvenient truth.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
70. Not trying to tear him down
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:07 PM
Feb 2016

just being honest about the man and his policies. Why do you have a problem with the truth?

tokenlib

(4,186 posts)
73. Traditional New Deal progressives finally have a candidate... And that is what matters.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 01:19 PM
Feb 2016

Most of us "New Deal" types support Bernie. That is clear.. That is what matters. And we don't see the "Four Freedoms" as a fantasy.

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