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Uncle Joe

(58,365 posts)
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:44 PM Feb 2016

Bernie Sanders is right: Hillary Clinton praising Henry Kissinger is outrageous



(snip)

Now, this may all seem like ancient history in 2016. But Kissinger's legacy is still a subject of wide-ranging, angry debate among American foreign policy experts — because it speaks to some fundamental issues about what matters in US foreign policy and the fundamental nature of the foreign policy establishment itself.

Clinton and Sanders's fight over Henry Kissinger wasn't merely academic history: It speaks to some profound differences in their candidacies, which itself helps explain a major source of Sanders's appeal.


Here is the problem with this account of Kissinger: It ignores the fact that he shares responsibility for the deaths of enormous numbers of innocent people. For those who believe American policy should be about more than the naked pursuit of self-interest, the continuing veneration of Kissinger in Washington is appalling.

Most infamously, Kissinger masterminded a Nixon-era plan to carpet-bomb Cambodia. Nominally, the bombing — which indiscriminately hit targets in civilian-populated areas — was supposed to destroy North Vietnamese and Viet Cong bases. In reality, it was designed to improve America's strategic position before a negotiated withdrawal.

American bombs killed between 150,000 and 500,000 people in Cambodia. That created a swell of public support for Pol Pot and his communist Khmer Rouge rebels, who exploited popular anger at the bombings to seize control of the government in 1975. The Khmer Rouge then slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Cambodians and starved even more, ultimately killing at least a million people, about one-seventh of the country's population.


(snip)

This is not an exhaustive list of Kissinger's crimes: It doesn't touch, among other things, his support for proxy wars in sub-Saharan Africa or his backing of the Indonesian dictator Suharto's killings in East Timor.

(snip)

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/2/12/10979304/clinton-sanders-kissinger




This an excellent and I'm sure for many people; an eye-opening read.
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie Sanders is right: Hillary Clinton praising Henry Kissinger is outrageous (Original Post) Uncle Joe Feb 2016 OP
Ding a ling. ghostsinthemachine Feb 2016 #1
He isn't the only war criminal she is close to. nm rhett o rick Feb 2016 #2
You got that right, but HK is one of the worst... Hillary should be ashamed of her affiliation with that war criminal. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #27
Kissenger is the poster boy for Eisehower's warning tk2kewl Feb 2016 #3
I couldn't agree more. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #7
Thanks. I could use some peace about now. tk2kewl Feb 2016 #8
Do Not Forget Barbie Boxer Shillin Fer Hillary On Chris Hayes Tonight... CorporatistNation Feb 2016 #23
Hill and Henny love cluster bombs. Wilms Feb 2016 #4
Henry Kissinger is a butcher with the blood of literally millions hifiguy Feb 2016 #5
Yes but according to the article he was "pragmatic"...so. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #6
Speaking of a special place in hell. LiberalArkie Feb 2016 #11
Seriously, cept im thinkin ole Henry rottin in hell is too good for that POS. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #28
This is a much needed history lesson Duppers Feb 2016 #9
It was my pleasure, Duppers. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #10
Today on PUBLIC radio, the commetators were laughing at Bernie for bringing up FiveGoodMen Feb 2016 #12
I don't believe they will be laughing after the next few weeks. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #15
And peace to you! FiveGoodMen Feb 2016 #16
How is the last debate an old issue? Lordquinton Feb 2016 #17
You're right, it is VERY transparent. FiveGoodMen Feb 2016 #18
Celebrating Kissinger and his friendship is a DEAL breaker for me. Thank you for posting. K&R. myrna minx Feb 2016 #13
Ah, the 60s. The first of the anti-war generations. The memory of his voice makes me cringe. n/t libdem4life Feb 2016 #14
Thank you, Uncle Joe, for the reminder and "need to know". Duval Feb 2016 #19
Since Hillary was the President of the Young Republicans in college and later a Walmart B Calm Feb 2016 #20
You know that really is the most disturbing: being the Pres.of the Young Repubs YOHABLO Feb 2016 #25
Respectfully disagree with "Uncle Joe" that . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #21
That wasn't my opinion it was VOX's but I can see your point, the thing about Henry is Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #24
A long and sickening record of getting things done... Cheese Sandwich Feb 2016 #22
Add Robert Kagan to the mix and you've got yourself a crime spree CoffeeCat Feb 2016 #26
PNAC Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #29
She was also BFF with Mubarak. That's how she swings. delrem Feb 2016 #30
Sanders Tells Clinton: 'Destructive' Henry Kissinger 'No Friend of Mine' eridani Feb 2016 #31
Thanks for the addition, eridani. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #32

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
27. You got that right, but HK is one of the worst... Hillary should be ashamed of her affiliation with that war criminal.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 01:46 AM
Feb 2016

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
23. Do Not Forget Barbie Boxer Shillin Fer Hillary On Chris Hayes Tonight...
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:39 AM
Feb 2016

They are all in the tank together... The most entertaining aspect of the entire Kissenger exchange was when Hillary started touting Kissinger opening up China to American Business...

She took that hook, line and sinker... then Bernie reeled her in on the JOB LOSS OFFSHORING PARADIGM AND SHE LOOKED LIKE AN IDIOT!

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
4. Hill and Henny love cluster bombs.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:49 PM
Feb 2016

I mean, it must be lonely being a cluster bomb lover. And so, it's a beautiful thing the two of them found one another.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
5. Henry Kissinger is a butcher with the blood of literally millions
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:50 PM
Feb 2016

on his hands. Vietnamese, Cambodians (w/o his encouraging Nixon to take the war into Cambodia there would have been no Khmer Rouge dictatorship), Chileans, Argentinians, Bangladeshis, and the list could go on much longer.

In a world that truly cared about the rule of law Kissinger would have been hanged for genocide and crimes against humanity 30 years ago and his ashes scattered to the winds.

But she seems to be so PROUD of being BFFs with that amoral monster. And that tells you every last think you need to know about her.

Uncle Joe

(58,365 posts)
6. Yes but according to the article he was "pragmatic"...so.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:59 PM
Feb 2016


Before entering public service in 1968, Kissinger was a professor of international relations at Harvard. He developed a very clear worldview centered on the idea of realpolitik: that the United States should carefully pursue its own interests within the confines of what's politically possible. Moral and ideological considerations, for Kissinger, were less important than cold, hard evaluations of what could advance America's strategic position.

This led him to take a more pragmatic view of traditional American enemies, like the Soviet Union and China, then had many prior American leaders — ideas that caught Richard Nixon's ear. Nixon appointed him national security adviser after his 1968 election, and Kissinger quickly became the key influence on Nixon's foreign policy.



I would only edit that moral considerations for Kissinger were non-existent.

Peace to you, hifiguy.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
28. Seriously, cept im thinkin ole Henry rottin in hell is too good for that POS.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 01:48 AM
Feb 2016

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
9. This is a much needed history lesson
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:42 PM
Feb 2016

for the folks who cannot remember the 70s or knew little about it.

It upsets me that there are those, even some DUers, who just don't seem to care.

This is yet another very serious flaw in Hillary's judgement.

Thank you so much, Uncle Joe!

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
12. Today on PUBLIC radio, the commetators were laughing at Bernie for bringing up
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:07 AM
Feb 2016

such an old issue.

Sadly, I kid you not.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
17. How is the last debate an old issue?
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:16 AM
Feb 2016

And if they are referring to him being an old issue, then why aren't they saying the same thing to Hillary?

It's so transparent.

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
13. Celebrating Kissinger and his friendship is a DEAL breaker for me. Thank you for posting. K&R.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:10 AM
Feb 2016

When will Dick Cheney be welcomed into the Democratic Party as an "elder statesman" to dispense foreign policy advice to friends?

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
20. Since Hillary was the President of the Young Republicans in college and later a Walmart
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:30 AM
Feb 2016

Corporate Lawyer it didn't surprise me she adores Kissinger!

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
25. You know that really is the most disturbing: being the Pres.of the Young Repubs
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:55 AM
Feb 2016

especially back in the late 60s and the height of the Vietnam War. She was also a big supporter for Barry Goldwater. We would have all considered her part of the "establishment'' or just totally square in those days. I don't think she ever really strayed from her Republican Lite days.. it shows. I think her so called ''progressive'' stance now is nothing more than a hood wink at the left. If she gets in, you will see her veer far to the right again. That's always how it ends. Obama did it too as soon as he was sworn into office. I really think that people are going to be very disappointed by a Clinton presidency. Kissinger should have been tried for war crimes IMO.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
21. Respectfully disagree with "Uncle Joe" that . .
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:31 AM
Feb 2016

the carpet bombing of Cambodia was K's "most infamous" act.

Actually, I'd call it his torpedoing of the Vietnam peace accords in 1968 . .

which led to, not only the bombing of Cambodia, but four more years of totally unnecessary war in Vietnam.

AN EXTRA million Vietnamese dead, AN EXTRA 20,000 Americans dead - not to mention countless Laotians and others . . .

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

Uncle Joe

(58,365 posts)
24. That wasn't my opinion it was VOX's but I can see your point, the thing about Henry is
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:46 AM
Feb 2016

there was so much in his massive, infamous record that could argue for being number 1.

If you had to live under the dictator Pinochet in Chile, or the genocide in East Timor, I'm sure that would be at the top of your list, etc. etc.

Peace to you, FairWinds.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
26. Add Robert Kagan to the mix and you've got yourself a crime spree
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 01:05 AM
Feb 2016

Robert Kagan, the founder of the neocon movement, was one of Hillary's hand-picked foreign policy advisors while she was Secretary of State.

He was one of the original PNAC signators.

It's pretty vile.

I listened to HRC bloviating about the Iraq War on the Senate floor. Someone posted the video last week. And I'm thinking--My God, why didn't we see what she was years ago?

A friend to Henry Kissinger, and an avid fan of the man who began the warmongering movement. It couldn't be more clear, what she is.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
30. She was also BFF with Mubarak. That's how she swings.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:30 AM
Feb 2016

Both she and her husband are pro's on the swing circuit.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
31. Sanders Tells Clinton: 'Destructive' Henry Kissinger 'No Friend of Mine'
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:41 AM
Feb 2016
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/02/12/sanders-tells-clinton-destructive-henry-kissinger-no-friend-mine

Though Kissinger's legacy may not be as well known among the younger generation of voters who have been streaming to Sanders campaign over Clinton's, historian Greg Grandin—author of Kissinger’s Shadow: The Long Reach of America’s Most Controversial Statesman—has argued that during the decades he served as a central player in U.S. foreign wars and political interventions, policies and actions supported by and executed by Kissinger have had a destructive impact across the globe. As Grandin wrote last fall in a post for TomDispatch:

Over the last decade, an avalanche of documents -- transcripts of conversations and phone calls, declassified memos, and embassy cables -- have implicated Henry Kissinger in crimes in Bangladesh, Cambodia, southern Africa, Laos, the Middle East, and Latin America. He’s tried to defend himself by arguing for context. “Just to take a sentence out of a telephone conversation when you have 50 other conversations, it’s just not the way to analyze it,” Kissinger said recently, after yet another damning tranche of documents was declassified. “I’ve been telling people to read a month’s worth of conversations, so you know what else went on.”

But a month’s worth of conversations, or eight years for that matter, reads like one of Shakespeare’s bloodiest plays. Perhaps Macbeth, with its description of what we today call blowback: "That we but teach bloody instructions, which, being taught, return to plague the inventor." We are still reaping the bloody returns of Kissinger’s inventions.
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