But I think it's only reasonable for him to expect his motives to be questioned, given his past.

He actually giggles at sliming people with lies.

The man is a sociopath.

He tried to play dirty trickster for the conservatives to get tight with his father despite having to hide being gay.

I think he felt terrible guilt over how he hurt Hillary and Bill with his lies during that period and, like some wounded animal, is lashing out at Bernie to try to assuage that guilt or make it up to them. It is really, terribly sad if you think about it.

It doesn't mean I find him any less distasteful, but I don't think he is sociopathic, just really confused.

Those at the top of the political food chain whether it be corporations and/or multi-millionaires simply don't care; they are happy w/ whoever lets them keep all their money at the expense of the other 99%.

Politicians and political operatives who get the $$$ scraps and the middle-management power that goes with it, absolutely.

They sold out; why can't he?

.. that vague sense of discomfort can be vexing and lead people to lash out, without fully
even knowing why.

This time, she feels it's really her turn.

Nobody wants to deify Sanders, least of all him, himself. The problem is he is so much better than the rest that it makes no sense to oppose him.

Elect Sanders? Yes we can.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Though it may sound silly, I used to wonder about why the stereotypical mustache-twirling villain of Victorian melodrama was always set on tying pretty girls to railroad tracks. I finally concluded that the rationale was that someone who had lost their innocence would be determined to destroy innocence everywhere as a way of silencing that nagging reminder that they'd sacrificed something precious in the name of personal gain.

I still believe that. The corrupt feel a need to corrupt others -- or at least to paint them as corrupt. The unprincipled feel a need to deny the existence of principle. The violent feel a need to provoke others to violence.

That's what the whole "turn the other cheek" thing is about. It's not about being humble and self-sacrificing. It's about short-circuiting the mechanisms of provocation by cutting across expectations.

Not silly at all. I would also go further and say that many Republicans, both leaders and followers, are burying their collective consciences, and in a way "going all in" first with the tea baggers, and now with Trump, to double down on what they deep down know, in that BushCo. led the country and their party down a dark road and perpetrated the worst in people, including themselves. To save face they mask the fact they were deceived by inventing lies and then believing the lies they invent in order to feel better about their own compatibility.

many Republicans, both leaders and followers, are burying their collective consciences, and in a way "going all in" first with the tea baggers, and now with Trump, to double down on what they deep down know

Spot-on.

If you like 18th century naval stories, it's very well written and plays out the theme you described. There was a movie adaptation of it that is pretty good but the novella is better.

While it sucks to see Hillary go negative, this is child's play compared to what's going on on the other side.

That is not what they said, but i'll play: yesterday there was a post in the hrc group that claimed Bernie was "attacking" president Obama. In reality Bernie was answering a question with an opinion, the gist of which was "he did not go far enough". And much fingers were pointed and crocodile tears cried over this "attack", followed by the predictable ronouncements of the "implosion" of the Sanders campaign.

Where they know they won't get any arguments against their claims. The worst they can get there if they go too nasty is a hide.

They consider this an "attack" on Obama.

I think he has made the effort. But I think what we need, when I talk about a political revolution, is bringing millions and millions of people into the political process in a way that does not exist right now

I got banned from the HRC group for pointing that out...........

I consider it an honor

Hillary is accused from morning until night of "attacking" Sanders and that's among the mildest of accusations on this board against a woman who is regularly called a "corporatist," "corrupt," "warmonger," "murderer," "liar," "queen," "her royal highness, "Shillary," "ratfucker," and worse.

And the best you can come up with when asked to describe how Sanders is bring "attacked" is "he gets accused of attacking Hillary?"

Really?

I am sure you can find plenty of shit there.

According to Hillary supporters on DU Bernie is Israel's #1 shill, a commie, a crusty old Jew, a pro gunner that thinks women enjoy being raped, that we should abolish pedophilia or rape laws, is a racist, gun nut, draft dodger, scheming little sneak, socialist throwback jackass, drooling sweating old fool, scumbag, pandering phony braggart with some kind of emotional instability, tool for the NRA, Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies, thinks that orgasms prevent cancer, wants guns in the streets, is trying to suppress the black vote, has a nest egg in Israel, is supported by Stormfront and whose supporters are groomed by psychopaths.

Those are all exact quotes and links can be found in my journal.

You're welcome.

Bernie can't be bought so that makes him a pain in the ass to the predator class.

Bernie won't stop them no matter what he does. At best he can pry a few coins out of them for social services and wages. They might even play along to shut us all up until he leaves. Gives them time to dream up the next way to leach the life out of workers.

He wants us to wake up to a realization of our own rights and develop the will to regain and preserve those rights for ourselves and for posterity.

afaic, he's continuing the work of our nation's founders.

He's always said it's not about him and he cannot do this on his own. He's trying to raise us from our lethargy and infuse us with his passion.

If Big $$ seeks to maximize it's profits, minimize it's losses, it seems to me that they would want to purchase government representation in similar fashion while being harshest on those calling them out on it. I know this is simplistic but that's how I see things...hopefully the electorate sees things in similar fashion. No, not disagreeing with the paradigm angst suggested in OP, just adding my 2 cents. KnR

The one percent will not go down without a fight. They will destroy the economy to discredit Sanders before they will give a dime. Things will get uglier the better he does.

But they cannot be stupid enough to think the people will not eventually rise up and overthrow them. So much better for them if they can see the wisdom in playing fair.

Even though it is bad.

They didn't run for office to stay poor now did they?

We're the ones left to stop it though.

It's our collective problem.

America's and the world's.

Besides the 40 times a day attacks and slanders here on DU, Ms Clinton has been the most reviled politician in the country for the last 25 years. From Hillarycare and Vince Foster to Benghazi and emailgate, no one has fielded more slime than her over the course of her adult life. I can imagine you've thrown plenty of mud her way yourself.

If Bernie wants to put his neck on the left wing chopping block, his supporters better get used to the brutal scrutiny of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Once he appears as a real threat in November, Hannity, Savage, and Limbaugh will each devote two hours a day or more comparing him to history's worst dictators. They will eat him alive and many will believe every word of it.

You call what he's been subjected to vicious attacks? You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Republicans.

...take a cruise of the Greatest Threads page here at DU sometime.

I've seen both Clintons put through a meat grinder of name calling, innuendo, and insinuation that would make Karl Rove look like a rookie slacker. One of the most popular yesterday was a post where the person recalled his pledge to vote for the Democratic candidate if Bernie failed.

DU was kind of like this back in 2004 when Dennis Kucinich was running. Like now, his supporters accused Kerry of being part of the right wing elite, but unlike then it's gotten much more out of control. I sometimes wonder how many recs I'd get if I simply posted "Hillary is a vile bitch".

that Bernie Sanders was not as involved in the civil rights movement as he claimed. That is as bad as Republicans. You can call it whatever you want. If you don't have a problem with those kind of attacks then that's fine although I thing it speaks badly of the party. But I am not fine with it.

...we can agree that Democratic backbiting is hurting the party, but I have a feeling you only see it one way. Unlike most here on DU I happen to like both candidates equally. I'm only betting the odds of winning the White House right now by backing Clinton. If Bernie somehow perseveres, he has my full support.

Unfortunately, finding a Bernie supporter who will admit they'll even consider a vote for Hillary if she's nominated is rare indeed. That's what truly speaks badly of the party.

"Vicious attacks" my ass. Break out the smelling-salts.

Who are you to criticize him, or his supporters for being inspired by that courage?

I still have a lot of respect for Hillary. Especially what she and her husband went through during his term. I also believed her and applauded her when she talked about the 'vast right wing conspiracy'. But she decided, at some point, that if you can't beat em, join em. She caved, and decided that the only way to power was to be friends with the powerful. That it was too risky to simply have personal principles and stick to them..no matter what. I don't even blame her for thinking that way when she saw others like Kucinich be demolished. But, unfortunately for her, things are vastly different today. With social media etc..and against a fighter like Sanders nipping at her heels, she has become exposed for her opportunism above principle direction. Its rather sad.

She probably found his idealism and purity quaint.

Remember, before her husband was elected president, she was an attorney at the Rose Law firm, a member of the Walmart Board of Directors, and a governor's wife.

She may have fallen, but not very far.

But that looking at him, and the few bold true progressives in the Democratic party, and watching them be misinterpreted in the MSM, to put it kindly, helped her decide that she would NEVER even get anywhere near that kind of principled stance, no matter how much or even little, she agreed with some of what they were saying.

I guess I think its a mistake to completely tar and feather her, (and conversely deify Bernie). She is simply an opportunist, much like Obama, who have convinced themselves that its better to work within the system. (and it pays better). She is not evil, she has just buried her more liberal side for the sake of, what she would call, pragmatism. For instance I think there was a time when she honestly wanted to fight for single payer, universal healthcare, as the end game to her initial plan. She just gave up. And also she never (nobody) saw Bernie coming, or ever expected that kind of populism from such a blatant liberal. I think she may be even a bit envious, because if she had only known, she may have taken a different path than the gratuitous display of boot licking of the .1%.

Maybe I'm wrong about the potential of her progressive values, even in the past. Maybe its just that a part of me feels for her for the bullshit she has gone through in the MSM and Republicans over the decades. And also that she is again blowing it. I'm a little embarrassed for her.

From where you stand, it must appear that the RW attacks on the Clintons ended with Bill Clinton's 2nd term. In your view, it must seem that Hillary has moved into far right territory and has been welcomed into their Phyllis Schaffly sorority with open arms. From your perspective, anyone the 10th most liberal US senator is in the farthest right wing reaches of the political spectrum.

Your perspective is skewed from reality.

Hillary supporters can shit all over Bernie? I don't think so. If crying is what you want to call it then Hillary supporters do their fair share of crying.

Bernie is as noble and good as John Lewis. I suppose if Lewis were running against Hillary, he'd be getting swiftboated, too.

Yes, Ms. Clinton "has been the most reviled politician in the country for the last 25 years." And as such will set record voter turnout numbers...for REPUBLICANS.
As far as the professional dung beetles on the right, nobody that believes their spew will ever vote for a dem anyway.
Thank you.

A daily view of the front page at DU confirms that and Republicans despise her.

However, thinking that 25 years of attacks by the "dung beetles" have had no effect on good Dems is in error. I still have union brothers and sisters who wrongly believe the Clintons initiated NAFTA. The Democratic woman who cuts my hair thinks Hillary was "present" when Vince Foster died. Too many on the left believe "there's some truth to the Whitewater scandal", and how many Democrats have "forgiven" Bill for having State Troopers pull over women for sex in his limo?

If you think Ms Clinton will spawn a heavy turnout of GOP voters, wait until hate radio and Fox News spend months implying that Bernie Sanders is the Zionist dictator who will usher in the end times. They'll point to vague Bible passages and play up his Socialist background to Stalinesque proportions. The next time I get a haircut, I'll have to endure trembling scissors amid fears that Bernie will bring about WWIII. I'll end up looking like Bernie by election day.

For now, the right is keeping their powder dry and letting the left aid in taking care of the front runner, but if that changes expect a frustrating onslaught that will give Sanders' supporters cold sweat nightmares.

And we see it a lot amongst her supporters.

I guess we're fortunate to be ordinary people backing a very good candidate.

But if i had to make a comparison about anything then i would say Bernie is just like the rest of us, a precious jewel, not to be lost or sold or left astray but kept near the bounty of, where all can watch it all shine so bright

But they also don't want to give up their money and perks that are part of the establishment. It's not just that they need to rationalize it...they are addicted to it.

because I remember the attacks against Barack Obama in the 2008 race. Hillary has a powerful machine behind her and she`ll use whatever she needs to use to win, even smearing Bernie Sanders. He`s a man who has stood up for economic and social justice (and veterans) for decades, but that doesn`t matter to her or her followers because they`re perfectly content with the money machine she represents. Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to the presidency in 2008 and she thinks that now.

who I believed were honest and principled people, Jimmy Carter and Bernie Sanders. Both were bright men who were willing to give up four years of their life to help America. We must not miss the opportunity of selecting Bernie to be our President for at least the next four years. He wouldn't be able to get everything going right but he would make significant progress.

Stop worrying about whether he is electable. Most current polls show that in a head to head, he would beat any of the Republican candidates.

Hillary's appointees would be similar to DWS and Tim Kaine.

We need someone that believes in progressive Democrats. They CAN win. We need someone who will recruit and fund them.

Or else 10 years from now we'll be right where we are now with elected Democrats that support Wall Street's interests over Main Street's interests whenever it counts the most.

We need a progressive Party Chair desperately.

1. Economics
Powerful forces are embedded in the economic culture of the day, and their paycheck depends on maintaining our current economic policies, and we're talking some really big pay checks!

2. Ethics
Some people see ethical virtue in selfishness, and view care for the poor as an ethical weakness. Why? Generations of propaganda from the economic elite, that's why. Bernie is promoting a new ethic, and the elite are on defense.

3. Ambition
Some people don't care about policies, that's just minutiae. The only outcome that matters is winning. Power has an absolute corrupting influence.

4. Fear
All of the above, and fear of change. Some people will settle for a known evil rather than take a risk on transformational change.

YMMV

Your OP does a great job of explaining the response to both - even though Carter and Bernie have different focal points in their policy rhetoric.

They have none.

It cannot be faked.

They don't want him here because then they have to look themselves in the mirror and realize that they are are the ones who did it wrong. They could have fought the GOOD fight and done so without lying and corruption. They could have but didn't. And Bernie is showing them that yes, it can be done honestly and with integrity. That scares the living shit out of them.

and that's basically the question the crooked cops keep asking him.

And livening up the Party.

First they get hit with cognitive dissonance: they just can't believe Bernie is a real human being.

Then their feeble rationalizations begin to unravel: if Bernie is for real, why can't I be more like Bernie?

Then, if they are smart, they realize that their candidate has been bettered, stop pretending to adore a false idol, and start FEELIN' THE BERN! (If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.)