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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:47 PM Feb 2016

WAPO Editorial: "Bernie Sanders attack on Reality"

Sounds a lot like my last article...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanderss-attack-on-reality/2016/02/12/e0656e04-d1b1-11e5-b2bc-988409ee911b_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Bernie Sanders Attack on Reality



“MADAM SECRETARY,” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said to Hillary Clinton at Thursday night’s Democratic presidential debate, “that is a low blow.” But was it? Ms. Clinton had just finished pointing out that Mr. Sanders has at times strongly critiqued President Obama. While she made his criticisms out to be more personal in nature than they were, her core point was nevertheless true: Mr. Sanders is running a campaign based on a blistering — and simplistic — critique of the status quo under this Democratic president.

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Ms. Clinton, pointing out that Mr. Obama had to fight tooth-and-nail even for relatively centrist solutions such as the Affordable Care Act, draws the lesson that the next president must have a strong sense of practicality and realism; big rallies cannot wish away the complex politics of Congress. Mr. Sanders, by contrast, claims that Mr. Obama had insufficient revolutionary zeal. That’s why he proposed that the incumbent Democratic president be challenged by a primary opponent in 2012.

Of course, Mr. Sanders’s rejection of realism didn’t start when Mr. Obama stepped foot in the White House. At another point in Thursday’s debate, Ms. Clinton pointed out that the senator from Vermont voted against a 2007 immigration reform bill, a bipartisan deal brokered by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), that would have made the country’s immigration system a little more rational. Mr. Sanders replied that the guest-worker program it envisioned would have been “akin to slavery” and that groups such as the AFL-CIO and the League of United Latin American Citizens opposed it. Such kowtowing to interest groups and indulgence in hyperbole are not uncommon for senators, who are rarely held accountable for failing to get results. But they would make for a disastrous presidency.

Mr. Sanders regularly assures his audiences that he respects Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton. But he attacks the pragmatism they have built their legacies on, even though they had no other option. The system — and by this we mean the constitutional structure of checks and balances — requires policymakers to settle for incremental changes. Mr. Obama has scored several ambitious but incomplete reforms that have made people’s lives better while ideologues on both sides took potshots. A key question in the Democratic race is which candidate would duplicate the president’s work and which would settle for rock-throwing.

61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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WAPO Editorial: "Bernie Sanders attack on Reality" (Original Post) stevenleser Feb 2016 OP
Spreading Ever More Establishment FUD - So Predictable cantbeserious Feb 2016 #1
Your last article? Is that the one where you called Hillary a liar and unfit to serve? n/t JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #2
Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #4
Hey, I'm just calling out what I see as first-class cognitive dissonance. I didn't mention Bernie. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #11
Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #12
Too bad you didn't mention this reevaluation of her character in 2008. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Feb 2016 #16
No I attack the apparent disconnect between two pieces of journalism you have written. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #17
Which don't apply to the posted OP at all. Thus, ad hominem. nt stevenleser Feb 2016 #18
You brought up your previous posts and comments. You "opened the door". Buh Bye. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Feb 2016 #20
Why are you still acting like a child? retrowire Feb 2016 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Feb 2016 #23
No, you made up your own definition and now arbitrarily apply it Arazi Feb 2016 #26
You just gave me a link to you calling everyone Berniebros... retrowire Feb 2016 #27
Isn't referring to the people you respond to as "Berniebros" an ad-hominem? Bjorn Against Feb 2016 #24
LOL Exactly what first came to mind. SMC22307 Feb 2016 #37
Wow thanks for kicking my post to let me know. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #38
My pleasure. I have a couple under my belt... SMC22307 Feb 2016 #56
Hillary is the rock thrower RobertEarl Feb 2016 #3
LOL at the irony. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Feb 2016 #7
Yes, because the invasion of Iraq was so pragmatic. Vattel Feb 2016 #6
my o my madokie Feb 2016 #8
Post Editorial Board are clowns of the earth Cheese Sandwich Feb 2016 #9
I proudly stand with Steven Leser v2.0.08, that dude was a keen judge of character Fumesucker Feb 2016 #10
I proudly stand with you as well. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #13
Perhaps something was lost when the new version downloaded? guillaumeb Feb 2016 #30
I'm loving his "BernieBro" comeback to everything now Arazi Feb 2016 #21
He's now flagged for review neverforget Feb 2016 #35
What does that mean? JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #39
Probably just a hairy eyeball in this case... n/t bvf Feb 2016 #44
He had a couple posts hidden today neverforget Feb 2016 #54
Don't these "journalists" work for amazon.com now? Ron Green Feb 2016 #14
Oligarchy is "reality." moondust Feb 2016 #25
"You've read your free limit of articles for the month". m-lekktor Feb 2016 #28
Some call it pragmatism when a politician settles for far less in the name of compromise. guillaumeb Feb 2016 #29
False statement " But he attacks the pragmatism they have built their legacies ... basselope Feb 2016 #31
I said it another post... tk2kewl Feb 2016 #32
K&R ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #33
RW horseshit. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #34
In this thread I've learned that calling someone a word used all over the Internet betsuni Feb 2016 #36
You've got it! But those days are coming to an end soon, my friend. NurseJackie Feb 2016 #60
I will be counting the SECONDS! nt betsuni Feb 2016 #61
Ponies and unicorns for all. Beacool Feb 2016 #40
Yep. He's fighting the "reality" of a corrupt political system that doesn't represent the people. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #41
What did I miss? Capt. Obvious Feb 2016 #42
Panic after two hides back-to-back is my take. n/t bvf Feb 2016 #45
He has a visceral hatred for Bernie supporters. m-lekktor Feb 2016 #48
I love the drippy kind farleftlib Feb 2016 #49
gasp. lol. Anyhow, he's a Berniebrophobe! nr m-lekktor Feb 2016 #52
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! "...even though they had no other option..." uponit7771 Feb 2016 #43
The effing funniest thing about this artislife Feb 2016 #46
! neverforget Feb 2016 #57
Great article. Cali_Democrat Feb 2016 #47
K and R oasis Feb 2016 #50
DU REC! bravenak Feb 2016 #51
Kicking for the lulz frylock Feb 2016 #53
Now I get to tell my friends I battled a Fox news pundit into defeat. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #55
Oh that Wild and Whacky Washington Post is at it again Armstead Feb 2016 #58
K&R. What's funny is he blames the Vermont governor for single payer not being R B Garr Feb 2016 #59

Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #2)

Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #11)

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
15. Too bad you didn't mention this reevaluation of her character in 2008.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:04 PM
Feb 2016

Oh, and my post was no ad hominem. It stuck to the facts.

Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #15)

Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #19)

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
22. Why are you still acting like a child?
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:13 PM
Feb 2016

The Berniebros insult lashing out of you every chance you get?

We're real people. As are you. You lost respect and integrity from a great deal of people, gave the most generic explanation about why your character changed, and you still expect people to take you at face value? While you call us Berniebros?

What kind of a man are you?

Response to retrowire (Reply #22)

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
26. No, you made up your own definition and now arbitrarily apply it
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:17 PM
Feb 2016

whenever someone disagrees with you.

It's pretty silly even for a Faux pundit imo

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
27. You just gave me a link to you calling everyone Berniebros...
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:22 PM
Feb 2016

Hmm.. Let's see.

Did you know that respect begets respect?

The way you act will not illicit any further respect from others, so stop expecting it. You're not entitled to anyones good nature when you don't give them the same.

Secondly, in reading the post, are you aware that people on BOTH sides do the exact same things? I'm not going to defend the assholes who support Bernie and I'm not going to consider all Hillary Supporters the same types of people.

I don't say Hillarybots, Hillarians, Shillaries or any of that nonsense. Know why? Because it's not becoming of me.

I'm a 27 year old man who knows how to treat others despite having differences. I know how to dish it out when it's given to me as well. But better than that, I know that some people are just people and SOME people, are literally insane.

But judging by YOUR past stevenleser, you're people. From what I can tell, you're capable of being good people too.

So why doesn't that coincide with how you act today? You changed this much... Because you witnessed Hillary concede to Obama?

Remember, that was your FULL explanation for having a change of heart. That explanation, is what you expected was enough for us all to accept your change of heart. Like I said before when you stopped replying, you don't need to worry about what others think. But what we think of you, DOES decide how you're seen by your peers.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
24. Isn't referring to the people you respond to as "Berniebros" an ad-hominem?
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:14 PM
Feb 2016

It is quite ironic to see you complaining about ad-hominems in a thread in which your primary debate tactic has been name calling.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
38. Wow thanks for kicking my post to let me know.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:55 PM
Feb 2016

I never elicited hides to my responses before. And from a faux journalist too! Nice!

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
56. My pleasure. I have a couple under my belt...
Sun Feb 14, 2016, 01:53 AM
Feb 2016

from Seattle. Wasn't my intent, but it was so damn easy what with "useless white supremacist liberals" and flattery of anti-Semite Farrakhan.

"Bernie Bros," indeed.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
3. Hillary is the rock thrower
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:52 PM
Feb 2016

Bernie is the reality based, we need changes, candidate.

All H can do is throw rocks because she is part of the real problems coming from DC.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
5. LOL at the irony.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:56 PM
Feb 2016

WaPo shouldn't be lecturing on 'reality' days after they published a false propaganda smear job written by one of their sloppy hack 'journalists'.

Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
6. Yes, because the invasion of Iraq was so pragmatic.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:56 PM
Feb 2016

And Sanders' ability to work with Republicans to get significant veterans legislation passed was so unpragmatic. And because gee, gay marriage happened so incrementally. It took centuries for people to overcome bigoted attitudes like Clinton's

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
21. I'm loving his "BernieBro" comeback to everything now
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:12 PM
Feb 2016


He's literally got nothing to say but the lame bark of "BernieBro"!!

moondust

(19,993 posts)
25. Oligarchy is "reality."
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:17 PM
Feb 2016

Don't even bother trying to change it. Give up. Go away. Die quickly.

Said the Bezos Billionaires' Gazette.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
29. Some call it pragmatism when a politician settles for far less in the name of compromise.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:25 PM
Feb 2016

Some call it selling out and contributing to the apathy that affects millions of US citizens.

Constantly doing the "pragmatic" thing by moving ever farther to the right convinces millions of US citizens that the two major parties are, as Ralph Nader described them, "two sides of the same corporate coin".

An interesting post that basically argues for the soft bigotry of low expectations and calls that failure of vision "being pragmatic".

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
31. False statement " But he attacks the pragmatism they have built their legacies ...
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:27 PM
Feb 2016

... even though they had no other options"

In February 2010 Obama took the public option off the table when he COULD have forced it through with reconciliation.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
32. I said it another post...
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:25 PM
Feb 2016

Thank goodness someone is attacking our current reality because it truly sucks.

attacking reality is at the heart of progressive activism.

betsuni

(25,537 posts)
36. In this thread I've learned that calling someone a word used all over the Internet
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:30 PM
Feb 2016

will get you swarmed by Bernie supporters and posts hidden but any kind of name for Hillary supporters like "Hillarians" "Hillbots" and so on are fine. Any insult for a Hillary supporter is okay but "bro" is a horrible slur. Got it.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
41. Yep. He's fighting the "reality" of a corrupt political system that doesn't represent the people.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:10 PM
Feb 2016

And, the "reality" of a corrupt party that all to frequently collaborates with the Republicans.

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
48. He has a visceral hatred for Bernie supporters.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:58 PM
Feb 2016

it's funny!! every post just DRIPs with disdain for us!

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
46. The effing funniest thing about this
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:55 PM
Feb 2016

is how the Op writer is willing to compare themselves to a yellow journalist.







As if they could achieve that height.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
55. Now I get to tell my friends I battled a Fox news pundit into defeat.
Sun Feb 14, 2016, 01:17 AM
Feb 2016

What a great day this has been.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
58. Oh that Wild and Whacky Washington Post is at it again
Sun Feb 14, 2016, 03:02 AM
Feb 2016

Jeff Beizos must really want him some favors from Clinton.

R B Garr

(16,954 posts)
59. K&R. What's funny is he blames the Vermont governor for single payer not being
Sun Feb 14, 2016, 04:29 PM
Feb 2016

enacted in his own state. Isn't that a dose of "reality"? So phony.

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