Hillary or Bernie would crush Trump one on one.
All is well.

Last edited Wed Feb 17, 2016, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

"His hat is worth 50 thousand men. But he is not a gentleman"-Wellington describing Napoleon

the ringmaster. He's just lucky that in modern politics he won't literally be whipped off the stage.

You know, Peacetrain, the right is practically in despair over the thought of his winning the nomination. If Trump is the candidate, the GOP expects to lose the GOP the White House.

With Trump as the candidate, the GOP also expects to lose control of the Senate and to lose many House seats, a few more governorships than they would have, and literally possibly hundreds of seats in state legislatures.

Now, I believe that the only way one could be afraid of a truly pathetic candidate like The Donald would be if he or she severely failed to understand our strengths. Please learn to recognize right-wing propaganda lies and refuse to listen to them, out there or here.

The GOP desperately needs to so demoralize people like us so that we don't bother to vote in November. It's the only way they can win.

It's not so much that as his followers and a compliant media. His followers are not interested in truth. They are not interested in facts. The media is interested in a horse race at any cost. Look at the coverage he gets 24/7 Anything he says about Hillary would be taken as gospel. Frankly a great way to demoralize the voters is have Hillary run.

And that's just one thing. She carries an amazing amount of luggage.

screwed. Cause the Party is backing Hillary, and won't back Bernie, and a whole bunch of the 'participants' (by which I assume you mean voters) have already said there's no way in Hell they'll vote for Hillary. Now, here on site, we've seen a lot of Hillary voters proclaim they'll vote for whoever wins the nom, but I honestly think the Party would rather lose with Bernie than win with him, because he wants to end the corporate cash gravy train so many depend on.

Will both sides sit this one out if they don't get their way?

Are people that selfish, ignorant and petulant?

I hope not...

WE MUST WIN.

That's why I've said we've seen Hillary voters say they'll vote for either. But if Bernie voters WON'T vote for either, than the only way to win is to vote for Bernie in the primary, so that everyone votes for him in the general. If you demand that you MUST have Hillary in the primary, KNOWING that she won't get voter support in the general, you're proclaiming you'd rather win the primary and lose the general. You can take people seriously and heed the warnings, or you can stick your head in the sand and pretend that they don't actually mean what they say and will vote for her in the general when they're telling you they won't.

Warning other Dems about weak candidates, then watching them pretend that those candidates will magically attract new supporters in the general, then watching them lose and enduring life under Republicans because they just HAD to have their weak centrist candidate.

of our country. This isn't a card game. It's serious.

Which is why I want the candidate I think CAN win the general to win the primary. I just don't think Clinton can.

Money in politics? The Iraq War?

Trump is already telling folks he doesn't plan to cut benefits, unlike so many of our 'pragmatic' politicians.

And the reasons for my concern are quite different from yours.

Trump needs to be the nominee. We need to be rooting for him from the rooftops.

Then pray that we nominate the candidate that is appealing to the same populist rage that Trump is appealing to...

Because if it comes down to choice between one party's political establishment's pick that has high negatives with independents and an anti-establishment candidate in this year's election, the establishment candidate will get crushed (just ask Rubio, Bush, Christie and Kasich)...

is fear itself.

Can he get a plurality or majority of Americans to buy into his shtick?

I don't think so.

...or else we're screwed.

If Trump wins, the other thing we need to fear is that he chooses Kasich. (Kasich has a level head and that ticket needs balance. He can't choose Rubio or Cruz because he's offended them so badly.)

Fear is in your heart ...

Terror haunts your every thought ...

Around every corner is a critical person who is going to rake you over the coals, twist your pinky toe and demand you 'FEAR TRUMP - HE'S MEAN!!.

Okay ... This is where you and I part ways ...

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"

Seems like I heard this somewhere before ...

In the meantime, try to overcome your fears and be a bold proponent of what is GOOD for your fellow citizens ... Trump is a bully, and Bernie will gladly point out his many many flaws ...

once other Republicans suspend their campaigns.

is probably the guy to be scared of.

big neon sign that says "we decide, not you."

I think a lot of indys that usually vote R are voting trump. The 'party' people want him out, it seems.

The Rs are still beholden to TPTB, they own the news as well.

I hope you're right. I think we're ALL tired of the status quo.

Why? The coronation of Hillary Clinton as if she was the only viable Democratic Party candidates. The party establishment convinced everyone for years that she is the ONLY candidate to support and the inevitable nominee. They didn't understand how flawed of a candidate she really is--her unfavorable sky high! So all other Democratic hopefuls were scared away.

But I'm sorry, I still don't think Sanders is electable.

That has been driven by media and some late joiners to the democratic party who keep repeating "she is a liar" narrative.

Right on DU there are a gazillion threads posted attacking Hillary and trying to cut her down, mostly taken from right-wing sites.

Hillary withstood an 11 hour inquisition and came out a winner. She will eat Trump or any other buffoon alive with her intellect, calm demeanor and plethora of knowledge.

Bill Clinton never received 50% of the vote, never mind above that in a general election for POTUS. Ross Perot did the Democratic Party a big favor by torpedoing the GOP with libertarians/fiscal conservatives, etc. Since 1996, the Clintons have piled up more and more and more baggage. There is an open FBI investigation that Bernie has helped Hillary pretend does not exist. Trump or any other Republican will hammer her on this. I don't believe she can get over 50% of the vote in a general election given the current circumstances. I also don't know if Sanders can either. I think it's ridiculous that the party bosses pretty much discouraged Biden, Warren, and others from running.

but I agree with you on the assessment that the party screwed up. I said from the get go that Julian Castro was our candidate, not just the VP. Others said "no one knows him", "too young", blah blah because the party was determined to go w/Hillary.

If I were DWS I would've pushed for the future with Castro/O'Malley. Yes, he's a somewhat corporate candidate. His mother was the neighborhood organizer, but he went to Stanford and Harvard. But he is also a young, attractive, charismatic hispanic candidate with beautiful wife and 2 young children. Why in the goddesses would you go with the other older corporate candidate Hillary Clinton (who had already been beat in 08) when you have someone like Castro available? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

But here we are. So I'm going w/my gut - I agree w/Bernie on every issue so I'm voting for him.

Only Hillary can expose Trump-the-buffoon with her intellect, knowledge and experience and make him go under his own mower.

Trump will eat Bernie alive and mock Bernie's one issue "billionaire-millionaire-banksters-oligarchs-shiny-pony-to-everyone" repetitious speech. All trump has to do is to keep mocking it and Bernie will be shredded.

Bernie has no come back.

Trump will hammer it hard. Don't think otherwise.

The FBI is only doing due diligence on emails prior to their release to the public.

Clintons are smart and they live under a microscope -- even a parking ticket is world-wide news. They are not stupid to commit any crimes.

She was dumb enough to set up a private email server as Secretary of State. "I didn't know" is not a good excuse.

The official state department server was.

...for the part where the act of using the server itself might have broken the law, even if unknowingly. Why put yourself in such a position to begin with?

A new report reveals that State Department investigators issued a subpoena to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation sometime last year. Investigators are looking for foundation projects that may have also needed approval from the federal government during Hillary Clinton’s term as secretary of state, according to the Washington Post.

The subpoena also asked to see records related to Huma Abedin, Hillary’s longtime aide, who for a short time worked for both the State Department and the foundation. A foundation representative told the Washington Post that they are not the focus of the probe. The State Department’s Inspector General office declined to speak about their investigation or the subpoena.

The Washington Examiner reported earlier this year about a Clinton donor – a Nigerian businessman — who may have benefited personally from State Department policy while Hillary Clinton severed as secretary of state

This latest subpoena is part of an ongoing investigation by the Secretary of State’s Inspector General’s Office, which is also probing her private emails. According to Fox News, the FBI is also investigating a possible “pay for play” allegation between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department business. Last month, Clinton denied allegations that the FBI expanded its probe.

http://lawnewz.com/politics/bad-legal-news-for-hillary-feds-subpoena-clinton-foundation-documents/

Bush is at best 4th. Why go after him? I think trump has pivoted to the general.

He was already criticizing GWB and the Iraq War months ago. It's just that he made a big scene of it at this debate the other day and now everyone is acting like he suddenly jumped the conservative shark. Apparently they weren't paying attention in previous debates when he made similar comments about Iraq. I think the points he made about 9/11 are what is really bothering the GOP people more than anything.

At this point is out of their minds.

I think a lot of the grassroots conservatives are against it. But they don't like to see GWB criticized for 9/11. They don't want to admit that Trump is right about giving up 20 runs in the first inning of a baseball game and then doing "pretty well" for the other 8 innings. It's a lot easier to blame Bill Clinton than to admit GWB failed too. It was a failure across the board. No sense in trying to sugar-coat it for GWB.

If the majority of voters want Trump, America has devolved into a lost cause shit hole, and it doesn't matter who runs it.

But Hillary can't beat him. No way. And Bernie, who could, can't get past the Hillary Brigade of Inevitability and Heiress to the thro...I mean White House.

I still have hope, however. And she's the one that's doing it...the silly attacks...the superiority complex...the "not ready for prime time" Chelsea who is just another bored rich woman, the stupid ads, et al.

Bernie is picking up speed, money and voters. I think it's going to be both anti-establishment candidates and a Sea Change for American Politics to get real, rather than bought.

attack in part because he is a consistent and honest person who has not climbed up a ladder crafted out of bullshit to get where he is.

I offer that you say 'stop pointing at others' but also you call persons you wish to control 'delusional' for not being very afraid. That's contradictory.

Trump, like Hillary, are masters at fighting. They don't know what to do when Jui Jitsu Bernie leaves their attack in mid-air and mores on. I love it.

Yes, someone points at you and says Stop Pointing your finger at me. LOL.

Last edited Wed Feb 17, 2016, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)

In all the interviews, town halls, debates, etc., has Bernie ever screwed up? Has he ever not come through? That's my answer.

I'm the cynic. If I'm optimistic, they you must be more cynical than me. I didn't think that was possible! Haha.

To be honest, I have this sneaky feeling Bernie is going to hit this one out of the park.

However, I'd be lying if I said I'm not concerned about the general election, regardless if it's Bernie or Hillary.

The extreme scenario was brought up by a reporter yesterday who's covered Trump for a few years. He said if something like a terrorist attack occurs close to the election, he could see Trump exploiting the fear/anger it generates to his advantage.

That's the extreme possibility, but especially after 2000, I'm not entirely confident in our electoral system. People with money and the right connections can tilt it in their favor under the right circumstances.

The GOP candidates are as weak as straw and Trump is no smarter than your average mowing machine.

We can take nothing for granted but right now it really appears to me that, no matter who our nominee is, there will be another Democrat as President in 2017.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

if Hillary can't figure out how to beat a 74-yr old socialist she had better throw in the towel because Trump will make mincemeat of her. The right wing has been building their file on her since Arkansas.

As far as Bernie, what you see is what you get. What is the worst thing Trump can say about him? He's an old socialist who lived on a kibbutz. Yes, he sure is. That's why we like him - he has always been like this - looking out for others. He's a mensch. People can choose - do they want a hateful billionaire who is going to continue to use the system for his own gain? Or would they prefer a reset by having an FDR in office again for awhile?

first, Trump is not inevitably the GOP nominee. Trump and Cruz are pissing off the "establishment" candidates big time. right now there are 4-5 of them splitting up the "establishment" vote, and they're all around 10%. what does that mean for when most of them drop out? Rubio/Jeb!/Kasich/whoever's left will be pulling 40%+ of the GOP primary vote, and all the delegates earned by the other establishment candidates up to that point are going to be dumped into one guy's box. which suggests to me that there may well be a brokered convention figuring things out between Trump, Cruz (because zealots don't give up), and one establishment candidate. edge: establishment candidate, but it will be hilarious.

second, Trump is a loser candidate who instantly alienates ALL minorities and a fair chunk of the Republican base. campaign ads write themselves. the GOP nominating him? we should be so lucky. either of our contenders will eat his lunch.

imho, the candidate to be worried about is Kasich. that guy is smooth, real good at coming across moderate conservative and reasonable at the same time, very upright & respectable, no obvious pitfalls with minorities. if he comes out of the primaries as the GOP candidate, we will have a tougher time no question.

which brings me to...

third, we have two good candidates who will be able to build winning coalitions and turn out the vote. true, they both have flaws that will be attacked, but when has that not been the case? Hillary will eviscerate any of them in debates, and Sanders will out-vision them on the campaign trail. the rancor in this forum is very ugly but at the end of the day we're going to have a solid candidate and they'll be lucky to have one who knows how to tie his own shoes.

is the General Election going to be tense and suspenseful? sure, lately it's always that way, but an interesting race will improve turnout which works in our favor.

NO We Can't is a LOSING strategy, and any politician worthy of the name should know that.

If the grassroots and Bernie can take over this party and put forth an energizing message, we can win. Following the Dem leaders is a guaranteed loss, IMHO.

If Hillary is the nominee and we're well into the general election and she is not cleared by the FBI, what next? I honestly don't think she should have run with that hanging over her head. Other viable candidates stepped aside for her and here we are. We've got Bernie, who I love but who is still a long shot overall, and Hillary.

Concern trolling by our supporters??

politics are not for shrinking violets if you are too scared to face the GOP I suggest you find another hobby.

Trump is actually a freakin lightweight when it comes to actual solutions. He beats up the rest of the clown car because they are even weaker than he is. He spanked Bill Clinton because both he and Hillary have a freight train full of sleazy baggage.

Bernie Sanders is a seasoned Master. Trump is a pathetic amateur.

Hillary has the DNC Machine behind her but in their zeal to coronate her as "inevitable", they have turned off not only Indy voters but the traditional Liberal base and millennials w/ her campaign. Sorry, but it's the truth. The GOP voters will come out in droves to vote against her no matter who the Republican nominee is; that much is certain.

If Bernie somehow wins the nomination, I see the DNC Machine turning their backs on him completely, so Bernie's going to have to rely on Indies voting and a record millennial turnout for him. He's already shown that he can raise money from average citizens but I don't know if it's enough, honestly.

If Hillary were not in this race and say, Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden, O'Malley etc were, I'd feel a whole better about the Democratic Party's chance this election, but they aren't.

That falls squarely on the DNC for clearing the decks for an incredibly flawed candidate in Hillary Clinton.

Hillary is too much of a distraction and Rs will come out in droves to vote against her.
Bernie's ideas are refreshing and he's saying what needs to be said about the government, but I don't see him winning a national election.

DEMs are stuck with another Clinton, the status quo, Washington insider, who many don't seem to like, but she's probably a better GE choice just because of her name recognition and connection to the party
Or
Bernie Sanders, the old, crazy socialist. Whether it's kosher to admit it or not, many see him as an old man. And, yes, he's only a few years older than Hillary and Trump, but still. He's an old man with an agenda that's probably difficult to sell to the average American that's not a liberal DEM. Ageism? Maybe, (and not from me), but I think that's how a lot of Americans see it.

Yes, MOST DEMS will vote for the DEM whether it's Bernie or Hillary, but I think it's going to be real tough for the DEMs to win the WH, especially since Ds have already been in there for 8 years.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but that's the way I see it. I hope I am wrong, but I think DEMs have a major challenge ahead of them in November, and it has nothing to do with posting behaviors on a message board.