2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Naivety of Millennials in Politics
Naivety. It's a theme usually slipped in between the lines by surrogates for Hillary Clinton trying to explain why millennial voters so strongly back Senator Bernie Sanders over the former Secretary of State. At least one of her high profile supporters though, Democratic Rep. George Butterfield, chose to go there boldly. Rep. Butterfield is a Hillary Clinton ally from North Carolina who is also the Chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus. Speaking at an event announcing an endorsement for Clinton by the CBC PAC, Butterfield, as reported by The Hill, made these comments:
I hope the students would understand the big picture, and that is, Sen. Sanderss message might be appealing, but is it realistic? Butterfield said Wednesday.
Butterfield attributed Sanderss success with millennials to the inexperience of those young voters.
Many of these are first-time voters, and Sen. Sanderss message resonates with a younger generation because of the promises that hes making, Butterfield said. Its not a disparagement on the new voters. Its the fact that many of them are inexperienced and have not gone through an election cycle before.
You listen to the message, and then you make a second evaluation about whether its realistic. http://thehill.com/homenews/house/269037-black-lawmakers-sprint-to-clintons-aid
Embedded inside that friendly critique regarding the inexperience of youthful voters was another even sharper one contained in this phrase; Sen. Sanderss message resonates with a younger generation because of the promises that hes making. That's code talk for all of that so called free stuff. The Hillary Clinton campaign has to be artful in the way they make the charge that young folk really only support Sanders because he is offering them the promise of free stuff because a) directly saying that would exasperate their current problem with millennial voters and b) they are counting on the support of millennial voters in the General Election race against the Republicans if Hillary wins the Democratic nomination. But someone like Rand Paul, when he was still in the Republican race, was freer to spell it out clearly, in comments like this one made at a Heritage Action for America presidential forum:
Alright, Bernie Sanders is offering you free stuff. He wants to give you free healthcare. Hed give you a free car. Hed give you a free house. But guess what. There is no free lunch. Rand left out Bernie's position on tuition free public higher education and threw in instead a colorful hallucination concerning free cars and houses instead, but you get the idea. Free stuff is unrealistic, got that? Even if the lure of lots of free stuff is downright exciting. And that of course leads right into another classic excuse made by the Clinton campaign to explain why Hillary is getting trounced by millennial voters. Campaigning for his wife in Florida, Bill Clinton recently said the following:
...both primaries have been dominated by very emotional campaigns that I think are the product of peoples doubt about whether they can claim that future. He also said this; We are too politically polarized and we keep rewarding people who tell us things they know they cant do because it pushes our hot button. In regard to the Democratic primaries Bill Clinton was addressing the hot button of unrealistic free stuff no doubt, which makes young folk get so highly emotional.
So in summary then, millennial are responding with their hearts, not their heads, when they flock to Bernie Sanders (you've heard that line before too, haven't you?) Because of their inexperience and youthful emotions, they truly believe that getting all of that exciting free stuff is actually possible, despite all evidence to the contrary. Just because most of them graduated from public high schools after twelve years of public education, without incurring any personal debt in the process, or that most other advanced nations offer 16 years of tuition free public education to their citizens, is no good reason to believe that America is capable of pulling something like that off here. And our unique American system of health care would no longer be so exceptionally American if we started guarantee free health care to all of our citizens the way that other advanced democracies do.
Bill and Hillary Clinton both know personally how unrealistic the expectations of youth tend to be before they mature and learn to be pragmatic about what is really feasible. A millennial, as defied by Merriam Webster, is a person born in the 1980s or 1990s usually plural. Using that definition everyone with an age between 17 and 36 today is now a millennial. When Bill Clinton was himself mere 30 he became the Attorney General of Arkansas. When Hillary Clinton was herself a mere 26 she was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.
When Martin Luther King Jr was 26 he led the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott. By the time he was 28 he had helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, serving as its first president. When John Lewis was 23 he was the Chairman of The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Bobby Kennedy would be considered the equivalent to an older millennial today at 36, when he became the Attorney General of the United States and the closest Advisory to his brother the American President. Bill Gates was 20 when he co-founded Microsoft, and Steve Jobs was 21 when he co-founded Apple.
One could argue that passion got the best of all of the people mentioned above, before they could internalize what was deemed possible to achieve by the establishment of their youth. You could say the same about much of a whole generation that engaged in the struggle to end Segregation in America, to end the war in Vietnam, to move feminist concerns into the foreground of public debate, to instill environmental consciousness into a disposable society and more. Young people by and large, all too naive to understand what couldn't be accomplished. All too impatient to change the world to accept that it couldn't be done, except incrementally, through a realistic pragmatic approach.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I hope Team Clinton keeps it up.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)people like my daughter and some of her friends hear this and get rightfully pissed off. They know that it takes money to pay for this stuff and that their taxes would go up. They also know that the rich, Wall Street, banks and large corporations aren't paying their share and need to ante up.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)I posted this yesterday if you are interested: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511252983
kiva
(4,373 posts)Yep, that's why I support Bernie.
The bashing of young people will only encourage them...to vote for Bernie
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)You hit it out of the park!
I'm a Baby Boomer for Bernie! I never lost my idealism and hope I never do.
Uncle Joe
(58,424 posts)Thanks for the thread, Tom Rinaldo.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Yea, it exists only due to Republicans. lol We get the big picture, Butterfield.
Great OP, thank you.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it is corruption or more politely the quid pro quo aspect of 'old school' political dynasties, 'small things like as we were recently shown how some of the superdelegates are lobbyists for one of the candidates , we've been told "that's how things get done" or "that's how it is" but then you have a candidate like Bernie who seems free of most the political quid pro quo and for many of us no matter what generation we may be of it is at long last a breathe of free air and a new way that could be or to quote JFK-
.There are risks and costs to action. But they are far less than the long range risks of comfortable inaction.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)they're making themselves clear what they will do and what your expectations had better be.
Clinton's message is stark, and candid enough, I know what I'll get. I believe that
is why she is not doing as well as she and her handlers thought they would.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)is the one who would deny the same benefits they enjoyed to millenials. and really, who is inspired by "vote for me," i will compromise for what is possible." thank goodness millenials want something more than what is compromisable within a hopelessly corrupt system.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)HRC's family will continue to be rich, gather more money and lavish on their own even as they say no to everyone else. Leaders who want to lead have to recognize the unity of all and they don't. There's no money in it.
Scotchgirl
(1 post)This line of defense by Hillary Troops is condescending and patronizing.It is a BIG MISTAKE. Rope a Dope.An ignorant mistake, showing fear and vulnerability.
I was a strong Hillary supported. Not so much now.
I am 70 years old. Born in 1945. I am not naive nor inexperienced in politics. I met Eleanor Roosevelt when I was 12. I went to RFK's funeral. When Bernie first appeared he scared me to death. All I could see was stolen votes, shades of the Gore debacle and Hillary as "the only one" who could begin to push back and get elected.I saw Bernie assassinated. PTSD from the 60's still is alive for many of us. Hillary seemed "safe". A slam dunk given the script and clown posse on the other side.
Since then, I am seeing things differently.
The concept of the "free stuff" argument and seeing Berners as all good little kids who don't understand adult life is as outrageous as telling my generation of white kids, who marched for Dr. King, that we just wanted to have sex with black kids. BIG MISTAKE, HILLARY.
It makes me sad, Hillary is annoying now. She does not know how to communicate in the fast changing world we all are experiencing. She is a worker and doer. NOT a performer. Putting down other's supporters,no matter how it is put forth it is OLD WORLD BULLSHIT. Old politics. Reacting in this way just shows how out of touch the Clintons are. Bill is tired. So is Hill.
The Clintons are no longer "hip". They are grandparents. They behave like grandparents who are exhausted.Knowing when it is time to leave is a great gift many in my generation have difficulty with now.Many are hiding their true health problems. Now we are getting a big dose of what our parents experienced in the 60's when we were a pain in their arse.The trick is to leave the stage gracefully with class and art.Love and respect for the young ones. And not become a drag on them. Or god help us, try to compete with them or fight with them.We CAN collaborate with them.
As David Bowie did.
At least Bernie DOESN'T vibe old and tired. Or overweight, like Trump. who looks like a heart attack on the hoof lately. I am 70. The idea of being shoved through a Presidential campaign in one's
60's to 70's is nutz. The "naive" tactic just proves how out of touch
and fast change is happening to geezer politicians out there,
dragging their bones around woofing and barking. Being the "authori-tee" not collaborator. Being "parental" and condescending. No wonder the kids go out and dig up dirt.
THIS is exactly why many are flipping and supporting Bernie. People of all ages, races and cultures. The old way to run a push to the primaries, even with Bill in there, is tired old and does not give us anything we need. It throws trucks loads of money around better spent helping others. Balancing the inequality economically out there. Not perpetuating the toxic old system. Again.
WE NEED CHANGE.
Hillary does not visually represent change. Same old politics.
In how they communicate and push forth ideas.
The bickering and fighting and war/sports ethic of old world politics
is boring and exhausting. It is BAD ART, BAD WRITING, BAD PERFORMANCE.
Bernie comes off different. He isn't promising "free stuff" to the kids. He is stating truths and human needs and thoughts that need to be heard. He is acknowledging the need for TRUE CHANGE. From a changed perspective. We don't NEED change circa 1990's. We NEED CHANGE systemically in ways that go farther than that ever could conceive. "Safe Change" is Grandma change. I don't want Grandma Change or "Safe" Change.
I want to live long enough to see my kids and grand kids TAKE OVER and CHANGE THE WORLD. I don't give a rat's ass about "having my turn". Time to pass the torch for NEW ideas. Blow the roof off "through any means necessary".
Now we all know Bill owes Hill big time. The party ( or some sector of the party) owes her big time.I get that. She worked hard her whole life for this country. The deal was, put the black kid in first, then give it to a Woman. And I was down with that. Until I saw how they were conducting the campaign in the old tired way. It is too late for that. The world is changing too fast.
My generation is Old. We are dropping very fast now.
We look tired no matter how goofy we are (the Donald). To overcome that perception new things need to be said in new ways, without fear or who we owe. This is the unspoken elephant(as it were) about this campaign.
I will vote for who ever wins the primaries.
It makes me very sad, Hillary looks so bad to the kids. Because she CARES about the kids. And it makes me sad
others are nasty about Bernie. That the party is so polarized and infiltrated. There is nothing inspiring about this battle or fight. Just polarization, fear and the same old same old. And oceans of money going down the drain again.
The ONLY inspiring thing out there now for me IS BERNIE.
And the way David Bowie bowed out in pure creativity.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)I've been away at work since posting this OP, and now will be out for dinner, But I had to thank you for this very personal powerful commentary before heading out. I will try to reply more later (I'm 66 by the way).
Response to Scotchgirl (Reply #11)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I know you're new here but it should be an OP. What you've articulated is how I feel as well; not as old as you but I have 3 grown daughters, and I want THEM to make this country the way they want it, with my help. The future belongs to them.
I'm tired of the Clintons, and tired of their campaign tactics; I'm tired of voting out of fear. I don't want to re-live the 90s and I don't want any more family members of previous presidents in office. No dynastic families please.
So cool you got to meet Eleanor Roosevelt, and David Bowie? We can all learn something from him.
Welcome to DU!
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)I think she has drifted in life to where she doesn't even realize how disconnected she has become from base voter realities, or understand how inadequate the standard remedies offered via status quo politic have become.
I think you will appreciate and take some comfort to how Maxine Waters, who supports Hillary herself, reacted to the press conference by the Congressional Black Caucus PAC and statements made there about young voters:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/darrensands/black-lawmakers-and-their-staffers-split-on-bernie-sanders#.ft0m13o2l
...Waters, the California Democrat and Clinton supporter, did not participate and apparently had not watched.
After the event, with her colleagues mostly gone, Waters walked out and wanted to know: Had her colleagues publicly chastised young voters for their naivete?
Some lawmakers had, onlookers told her. Her face dropped.
You cant do that, she said. Thats why I cant stand behind them. Because I dont want my young people to think I think that way.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)PatrickforO
(14,592 posts)Sick of the status quo.
I have lots of faith in the Millennial generation. I've two grown kids and they are great. Their generation may well save the world.
Welcome to DU.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I'm not a god-damned kid, anymore, and I'm sick of clueless pundits and Establishment hacks deriding us as "dumb, naive kids".
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)Even when I now, at 66, sometimes slip into the mental shorthand of comparing "kids" nowadays to how it was when "we" were "kids", I do so with a deep appreciation for all the things that "kids" both then and now are fully capable of. I do so with a firmly rooted understanding that people in their teens, in their 20's and in their 30's often make some of the most powerful positive contributions to humanity, becoming leaders for all ages in the process. I understand that often it is only, or predominantly, the young who have the courage, the independence, and the energy to counter deeply entrenched wrongs in this world we all share. I am honestly looking to your generation for leadership now - the future is largely in your hands. It pisses me off too when you are not acknowledged for being the vibrant vital adults that you are - well informed and acting out of strong convictions.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but in a good way. It is more the, wish I had their energy... which I don't anymore.
And no, you are not a kid, you are an adult, who can make decisions.
There is a moment when older people and younger people do not look different to you. It is fleeting.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Just wait, though, man. In a blink of an eye you'll have 50 breathing down your neck. No time at all.
But your point, I agree with. The condescencion from some quarters ("tweet your favorite emojis about student loans!" is simply dumbfounding.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Ive been saying for decades that no state will EVER vote to legalize marijuana. It will simply not happen.
Take it to the bank, no states are ever gonna legalize. Sorry, pot peoples!
...
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Just like we were, when we were first-time voters!!
Boomers, that is.
The first Presidential election I was able to vote in, I had to lean in towards the tv, and everyone else had to stop talking in the room in order to hear what the Democratic candidate was saying in the debates.
That's because he spoke in a soft, quiet reassuring tone, almost like a minister does when they are speaking to their congregation in a church.
That candidate's name was Jimmy Carter . . . and after being told by friends that they thought that he wasn't experienced enough to be the President, I told them maybe he wasn't, but I sure as hell already knew what a frickin' douchebag President Ford was, so I voted for Carter!!
And we won!!!
Damn kids! They have the audacity of hope!!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Yes, a certain number of senior Democrats still miss the 20th century. We get it. But kindly keep your romancing of the past out of the primaries. Third Way's time has come and gone. And Hillary, as usual, is one of the last to take in the news. (Her record on TPP and gay rights should have told us as much.)
BeyondGeography
(39,380 posts)They couldn't be more correct when it comes to college costs. Bernie might not have the exact right plan, but if Democrats have half a political brain they'll recognize the absolute home run he has hit with it with younger voters and figure out a way to make the bulk of it their own.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)Once you know your goal there are always any number of ways to get there, just like with driving a car. There are choices and trade offs, and if the goal is far enough away that one or more passengers will end up with a turn behind the wheel, negotiations are built in.
The Affordable Care Act that passed Congress differed in numerous regards, some small some large, from what Obama campaigned on in 2008. The key point is being clear on where you have to get to, then working to find the way most feasible to get there. It's not like free higher education is an untested radical idea. The largest Public University system in the nation, California's, was tuition free for over a century before Ronald Reagan got his hands on it as Governor.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)I think both Clnton and Sanders are unelectable nationally. But the naïveté of Clinton and her most ardent supporters is on a whole other plateau than whatever one the Bernie kids are on.
The US has changed a lot in the last quarter century and the "brand equity" that Bill Clinton had in middle-America and the South has been lost. Clinton-Gore won six Solid South states. Hilary Clinton might win one or none at all.
The only thing Hillary Clinton has done successfully is suck all the air out of the room in the Democratic field and after her insane behavior in 2008 potential candidates with time on their side are just going to wait this one out. Four years from now she will have either accepted her station in life or will just be a national punchline blamed for delivering the White House to Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)"Only the hopelessly naive dream of making the world a better place. Don't dare to dream."
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)...there wasn't a big excess of money seemingly sloshing around just waiting to be spent