ken...so putting words in women's mouths is the first creepy thing you shouldn't do if you are trying to woo women's votes....HRC will have lots of enthusiasm .....and women will have their cake and eat it....they will have HRC in the white house AND they will have bernie and warren...etc etc....she's got plenty of passion....bernie has the privilege of being the first male political handmaiden!

Doesn't that strike you as a worrying sign?

she walked into the state that is number one in guns and ammo manufacturing....and pulled almost 40 percent....bernie doesn't come from a gun control state and he will not vote against the NRA because they need the votes; he got a lot of loyalty as the next door neighbor...I am not worried...she's doing very well in SC....and a dozen other states....so no not worried thanks...

And she went from being thirty points ahead there to losing by 22%, in a primary she won in '08(and therefore should have been able to count on winning again this time).

NH was a gun state in '08, too.

given the conditions and the stance she was taking...it's still fine remember a lot of people don't come out for a primary and just wait for a general....

How is that NOT a collapse?

You can't be at an unfair disadvantage in any state where you won the primary eight years earlier.

Bernie pulled MORE female voters than Hillary ...

It's as if you are purposely avoiding the facts to make a point ... Why is that?

can explain the discrepancies in both Iowa and New Hampshire, to the satisfaction of Democratic voters. She just barely eked out a win in Iowa, and there are questions about caucus votes being switched from Bernie to Hillary. In NH, where Bernie beat her by 22 points, she still pulled more delegates than he did. This is supposedly because of the superdelegate system, which no one really understands. I fear that if all this cannot be explained, Sanders supporters will feel cheated and the convention might be a repeat of Chicago 1968.

All women love HRC. Women are Borg. Go away male human.













sarcasm

is the nominee (Life-long family of Dems here). When Rachel Maddow has to use an old poll chart to prop her up, you know Hillary is facing a terrific problem.

but she's doing fine right now in current polls

were showing and the IA and NH votes proved that. And she is in a virtual tie with Bernie in the current national poll that just came out. She is losing ground nationally. And Hillary's campaign puts stock in those polls. Candidates don't view losing ground as "fine", but you can if you want.

But, that was not any of the points of my post. One of the points was: Rachel Maddow is worried enough about Hillary's current standing that she did something that was beneath her usual journalistic standards: she used old poll chart data when new current data was out, in order to prop up the candidate she supports.

ALL polls are notoriously unreliable and represent whatever media is presenting them...for example plenty of media out there skewing the polls for bernie...i think young people and people with idealist bents (religion as an example) are vulnerable to polls (they pull in viewers) and they just look for the polls that reflect their beliefs....as an older voter I don't pay attention to them...it's sort of like taking your baby's temperature a hundred times a day and inferring something from one particular reading....my suggestion...calm down go smoke some pot and watch the blues bros or something...we have a long way to go

are, by definition, notoriously unreliable as well.

Therefore, none of the HRC slam-gloating on those polls is just trash-talk with nothing behind it.

posters are trash talking? gasp! No! really? I think by me point this out means I'm not trash talking but certainly all types are trash posting including bernie posters....as an older voter I put the passion aside and take the candidate out of the mix and just deal with the issues ...one can see more clearly that way....

n/t.

just don't pay any attention to them since they are unreliable...but people are going to listen to whatever reinforces their prejudice or bias that would be you...reading the poll....it's called cherrypicking for bias....that's why I don't pay any attention no matter where they come from

family for Hillary. None.

vote for the Democrat. I am a life long Democrat- I vote for the Democrat

She's negative, narcissistic and won't appeal to very many independents. I'm a woman who won't be enthused by her, at all.

Now, stop believing that every woman supports her. I think she's GOP Lite, myself.

let me guess....Ted Cruz and Trump don't?

But it's even more skin crawly when it's someone who claims to represent my political views.

are your political view and represent no one but yourself, just like everyone.
your job is just to pick the the candidate who's voting record you like and hopefully has the experience and maturity for the job....I'm not a car salesman or a bookie I can only vote for the person I think will do the best job ...no such thing as a perfect candidate the whole "skin crawl" emotional reaction is very "right wing"....I just want to keep the GOP out of the white house and I vote green locally...so far Bernie has not proved that he is up to the job...in my opinion....but I like him a lot he's a very nice guy

Because they're all too far to the right for me.

"Guessing" other posters motives to imply any preference of a Republican may lead to an alert and a hide by the jury system. Once you have 5 hides, You lose your posting privileges until the hides expire. Your transparency page is also visible during this time which shows each statement you have had hidden.

I believe our goal as members of DU is to follow the Terms of Service. Would you agree?

and to not have my gender even be a consideration. Hillary expects the opposite. That's misandry, NOT Feminism.

How about looking at who has the greater grassroots organization, which ignores all the stereotyping. Bernie has that one hands down. Yell me when you read a Sanders supporter playing the victim card.

stupid is as stupid does; lets face it some posters are very stupid

Same with Bernie.

My fear is once the candidates on both sides are clear, how many issues currently being discussed will just fall off the radar.

if Hillary wins the nomination.

He won't change his tune. Hillary changes by the hour.

Priceless. Thanks for the LOL

Because that message was such a success in 2014.

you going to do, say, if Bernie loses?

Would it be much easier to support Hillary by not going after her relentlessly now?

She needs to accept that she can't get elected by telling people that the should settle for crumbs and know their place.

Why doesn't she just admit that the issues the Sanders movement raises are valid and embrace the agenda it fights for?

Why doesn't she just shitcan the dismissiveness?

No one is only going to vote for her if her attitude towards the idealists is "get over yourself".

Nobody out there in the electorate actually WANTS her to be a downer.

people like Hillary being beholding to rich assholes who dont give a shit about us.

She has to be told by YOU if she is the nominee that what Bernie proposed better god damn happen or she can say bye bye to a 2nd term.

Etc

It's not about me or my ego.

It's about the validity of what the movement fights for...she still doesn't care about standing up to the rich and she never really has cared about racism(you can't ever have cared about that and been ok with totally putting it aside like she and Bill did in the Nineties, when they abandoned POC on everything).

We can only prosper as a party if the streets matter more than the suites.

But POC are slipping away from HRC now...the recent swings in the polls and the increased number of Bernie endorsements among POC show a real change.

Mainly, from what I can see, POC have bought in, until very recently, to the "ONLY HRC can win" myth. They are now seeing that that is bogus and that they don't have to settle.

The votes they gave Bill in the Nineties were hardboiled pragmatism. There was very little belief that Bill and Hill actually cared about fighting racism in '92...only that Bill was supposedly the only Dem who could beat Bush the First.

The AA community isn't a monolith, and its allegiances aren't carved in stone.

Things are up in the air.

Aren't you grateful that you've got two candidates working for your votes this year? That hasn't been the case in U.S. politics for most of the post-1980 era. The GOP treated you like cattle and the Dem nominees other than Obama mostly did all they could to be seen leaving you out in the cold in the post-Carter era.

Her actions are distinct from how PoC choose to vote. Votes do not erase past harmful actions.

..voting for her.

and she doesnt give it to us.


I no longer look at any of this as a supporter of a candidate, I am looking at a completely broken system.

TWENTY people have the SAME as ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION COMBINED

that we arent burning shit down is amazing to me...gotta fix it before it gets ugly, dont want it to get ugly

That implies a willingness to sit out an election (i.e. vote 3rd party) if a Democrat does not do as we wish. And we are frequently told here that that is anti-Democratic (big-D).

the TOS.

So I'll leave it at that.

mistaken.

having delivered truckloads full of cash in advance is about the same as my being able to flap my arms and fly to the Moon.

Indies and millenials won't come out. Republicans will come out in record numbers because she's the devil incarnate to them--Bill Clinton in the White House again over their dead bodies. If she tries to go hard left in the general she will be crucified by the flip flop machine that is tv and YouTube. She's already upside down in favorability. That problem will only get worse not better.

The cake is baked already. It's Benie or a disaster I can't fathom with Trump or Cruz as POTUS and SCOTUS appointments. This is not a game. We go social demcracy or Facist. That's what this primary is about. I still don't know if even supposedly informed people know what's at stake

will come out...there is a Scotus seat to be filled....we don't go social democracy or facist....we are a democracy progressing to the left....it never happens fast enough for anyone. just remember what Tom Hanks said in A League of Their Own...when she's nominated "there's no crying in baseball"

Many posts daily, from everywhere, stating commitment to write Bernie in if hilary wins the nom. Enthusiasm for her is at or below zero.

noses and vote for her. Though at the rate she's going with her insane line of attack, that may not be true for long.

I will cajole the fuck out of my neighbors when I try to gGOTV... probably at a call center since, as a Texan, I won't otherwise matter

No, enthusiasm will be low. She doesn't embody a cause. But I'm not a Democrat because I'm idealist. I'm a Democrat because I'm a realist. And anything other than a Democratic victory will be really bad.

But our party can't win anymore if it keeps running nothing but "stop the monsters" campaigns in the fall.

We need to actually give people, as Tim Hardin would say "a reason to believe".

We keep slipping more to the right, and we're being told to accept, no we can't, and this is good enough. Not to mention the horrific insults, such as being told we're leftist, tea partiers. Being diminished for our sex, race, age - whatever the meme of the day is. These are hard lines to erase in the sand should the time come.

Does that make me want to go door to door to help them get out the vote? No.

I know they don't need my money, since they're rolling in the corporate trough. Which is good, because I certainly won't send it. Not to them, the DNC, or many of those that stepped on us to support them (sorry state leaders, no coat tails). I'll continue to find and support like minded progressive candidates that stand true to our party, and not turn their backs on us when it's politically (or donor) expedient.

This post has a wonderful article linked that shares some of my greatest issues, negative campaigning aside. Long, but well worth the read.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511258079

....is somewhere between Dukakis and Kerry.

Several rallies with at least 100 or so people at them. With tshirts. And maybe stickers.

would be the knuckle-draggers who think that watching and listening to Fox Noise, Hannity, Rush, et al make you smart stampeding to the polls to finally GIVE THOSE CLINTONS WHAT THEY DESERVE FOR THE GOOD OF MURCA! That's where you'll see enthusiasm.

The fake scandals are already teed up, the fake promos are already in the can and the fake outrage is all but percolating already. Fox and the rest of the scum that make money off of scaring idiots with false news stories stand to make a whole helluva lot of money running against HRC. That's a scary thing, IMO because it could lead to President Trump or Cruz.

but honestly, I haven't heard an inspirational speech from Clinton since her NY kick-off. I thought she seemed genuine, made all the points she needed to make. Since then, not so much. It's looking like she'll be our nominee, and I will vote the Democratic nominee, but I tell ya, she inspires about as much excitement in me as a bum tooth.

If a Republican in the White House is not enough reason to be enthusiastically in support of our Democratic nominee......I don't know what else would be needed!

Not many others.

they will vote for Hillary.

Sanders and Trump/Cruz supporters all over the place however.

we have been called racists,sexists,and anti-women by her campagin and her supporters

Bill Clinton compared us to tea party

why should progressives and anti-war dems vote for corporate and kissinger loving Clinton.

i am leaving party and DU if clinton wins nomination.I have been personly attacked by clinton campagin,her supporters,and now
Bill Clinton.and from 1992 -2014 i always voted democratic here In Missouri.

since i can only assume dem establishment agrees with bill clinton since they should have denouced his comments comparing bernie supporters to tea party.

Clinton as nominee just proves both partys are corrupt and both part of the corporate party.no place for progressives and anti-war
people in democratic party.Clinton will move to right.she has already attacked single payer and been talking like republican on taxes.and is hawk on foregin policy.

...is to show the HRC crowd we never deserved all the slanders they hit us with.

(with "sweet" as the very junior partner in the bitter-sweet coalition).

When she loses
And she will lose
It will be our fault no matter what.

that and the fact that she perceived as untrustworthy, she is a proven liar, and does not appeal enough to younger voters. the fact that she is such a terrible candidate just makes more pissed off with the dem leadership.

years of Democratic rule. They are like we were in 2008 (and like they were in 2000).

We'd better turn out the vote or we're doomed.

she will does not inspire.

She made a great speech in Harlem recently.

And we sure don't need any massive level of grassroots enthusiasm. Just more votes than the other guy Many do not find your guy particularly appealing either. And even fewer like the GOP choices.

It really cramps her style.

She was counting on bullshit and bluster to be able to carry the day, but it isn't.

Yes, Hillary can lose to Trump. She's about as uninspiring, bland, and "Vote for us because we suck less" as DLC Dems get. And that's the kind of campaigning designed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

But it will be hard to muster enthusiasm to vote for HRC.

The last presidential candidate who generated widespread excitement was Reagan. Before that, we have to go back to Kennedy. Clinton has plenty of enthusiastic supporters. More importantly, she has enough lukewarm supporters to win the election. Probably. True, she actively discourages enthusiasm, with her "simmer down, now" cautions about expecting too much, and her proposals for financial reform, etc. are miles short of anything that could be considered ambitious, and let's not even use words such as "bold" or "visionary." She is a Clinton. Even though she is related to her husband by marriage, you would think they were identical twins, at least when it comes to political philosophy and methodology. So she will probably win the presidency the same way her husband won.

If Madam Pantsuit honestly wins, I will write in Minnie Mouse.
I've voted for Mickey several times in the past but I'll vote for Minnie to
prove I'm not a sexist. If the DNC uses Super Delegates to give her the nomination
(i.e. steal it from Sanders) I'll buy a lot of freeze dried food and wait for the Republican
President to start WWIII.

But with democrats, meh, most will be more enthusiastic about emptying the kitty litter or taking out the garbage than forcing themselves to vote for more war, poverty, bank deregulation, etc. I suppose even without any enthusiasm most will show up anyway for the same reason you empty the kitty litter or take out the trash, it would smell worse if you didn't. The old hold your nose reasoning to keep Republicans out.

Others unfortunately, especially the new voters Bernie attracts, the poor voters willing to start voting again because of Bernie, and the moderates he attracts because of his much better policies would likely just stay home and watch her crash and burn.

She's worth 1-3 million additional repig votes nationally. At least.

that's just a donkey cart to Hell instead of a freight train. The destination is the same either way.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, I would suggest voting for somebody however (just a suggestion, not a demand) be it write in, Green, or whatever you feel represents your best interest.

Using your vote as you see fit (and feeling free to keep that vote private) is a rather large part of living in a Democracy.
In fact it is democracy itself.

I'll vote Green or a write in if Hillary is nominated. And I'll work hard for Bernie's army https://newrepublic.com/article/129047/bernies-army-running-congress We MUST take our party back from the right wing hijackers!

and he'll have evidence too, no doubt. That will be the end for Hillary. She'll be toast. Trump hasn't had to be a hand puppet to power, and neither has Bernie. But Hillary has been fighting on behalf of banks and assholes like her son in law for decades now. People have had ENOUGH!Her candidacy is a huge mistake.

Look how fast she folded up her " Trump is a sexist" attacks as soon as he said "you wanna talk sexism lets discuss your husband"
Not a word since
She is terrified.of trump

no doubt he has some damning emails of recorded conversations with both of them. He'll run, either as the GOP nominee or an independent. I wonder if she's even given it much consideration?

It will be another groundbreaking victory of historical significance and a chance to lock in and build upon the gains of the Obama Administration.

You may not like it, but it sounds pretty damn awesome to me!

I'd like to find SOME redeeming value in Hillary as a candidate. But I cannot. None of you have given us one honest reason to vote for her. NOT. ONE.

I wont' donate to her - she has Wall street and the global corporate elite. She doesn't need me and will never have MY back.

I will vote in the election (down-ballot at least) but I'm not sure I want my name on her presidency. I'll cross that sewer later

If she gets nominated I expect to have President Trump...

But rings hollow if Bernie cant beat her in the primary.

People say they will write Bernie's name in, if it's not at the top of the ticket.

if any Hillary supporters live around here, they sure are being quiet about it.

...even with folks like you in our party working to suppress it.

From here on in, every speech she gives should be like her NH concession speech. If she gave nothing but speeches like that, she'd win in a landslide.

She needs to forever lose the whole "shut up and do what you're told" attitude towards the activists and the young.

no one will want president Trump,or Cruz, or even Rubio. 2000 left a serious stain and still bring a lot of pain.

enthusiastically vote defensively ... as I have in every election.

But you actually explained things better than I could. I will play DEFENSE with enthusiasm, even with people by my side that will probably make umpteen nasty jokes and threats because I was not a rah rahrah Hillary supporter from the alpha second. However, one the game is over, I will also watch our newly elected quarterback with enthusiasm. If she scores points on our side rah rah rah, but if she throws interceptions, or if her agents try to drive the team bus over the same people that got her the job (and you know what I mean by that) then I will use the fact that I voted for her ass as my excuse to criticize, to remind her who got her the job.

You are going to do what elections are about? ... Pick the best of the alternatives and stay involved?

How refreshing!

Now ... if you tell me you will accept a HRC Presidency, while working to get more progressives in the pipeline to build on whatever will be accomplished in 2016 ... You will have my undying respect (not that you don't already have it, despite our many, many areas of disagreement).

however, I will say this,and I do not think you will mind

1) if she whines about criticism, I will remind her when when many of HER supporters, not just the bernie people, hurled lobs at Obama (yeah, Paul Krugman is an example) Just like Obama knew he was driving into a shitstorm, do does she)

2) if she throws certain people under the bus ("hey, gays,women, people of color, you were great when I needed you to smash bernie, but now my friends are giving me lots of money to drive this bus,please lie down on the pavement." ) then I will be throwing tomatoes. You may join or not join, but do not try to stop me. Knowing what I know about you, you will probably point me towards the real squishy, stinky tomatoes that go splat on expensive suits

if so, we are cool, not that I thought we were not. And if bravenak is reading this, everything I just said to 1strogn,I say to you, including the fact that regardless of disagreements, you two are the people that keep DU worth a damn.

along as you are being fair in your criticism and tomato throwing.

and I hope I do nto have to do such, although again, if she goes anywhere near that bus,the tomatoes fly.

We all will have plenty of opportunities to throw tomatoes and fits ... If I learned nothing in Grad School, for every policy position there are winners and losers, the bigger the move, the more losers (and winners); but, none of the wins, or losses, are in isolation ... So, in every instance, the whole policy picture must be considered.

that is something quite rare, especially here.

But then, people often mock that which they don't understand, or wish they possessed (but don't).

however, being that all of us are, at the very least, left of Donald Trump, it is not unreasonable to hold Ms. Clinton to the expectation that we will be doing more of the winning than the losing. No, I do not want her friend Lloyd Blankfeld cutting Social Security, nor her friend Debbie Wassermann Schultz to cheer lead war with Syria and/or Iran.I can make several meals out of the half-loaves of compromise, but I will not allow them to switch that bread to dog food.

You'll see enthusiasm like you wouldn't believe.

And to think I read a recent post here on DU that claimed purity tests did not exist for the party and its candidates.

Only the other one admitted that he/she would take their proverbial ball and go home if Hillary won the primary. So if your only point in being here is to trash Hillary, why don't you do those of us who feel differently about her a favor and leave now. Also, on the DailyKos today, another Bernie supporter stated that he/she would not vote in the GE if Hillary won. How nice. But I'm certain those Bernie supporters would want us Hillary supporters to vote for Bernie if he should win the GE. Geez I can't wait until this campaign is over. This used to be a place I could come for news and information. Now it's a place that's just filled with hate.

I don't believe Hillary has done anything to try to win over those supporters she will need in November, including she and Bill throwing insults at them, along with help from the surrogates. The supporters have been even worse and actually pushed me from being a neutral lurker over the past 7 years, to actually participating here.

If you want someone's vote, earn it. Don't just expect it to be handed to you because you have the D behind your name.

As for your call asking for those who feel differently about Hillary to leave, I am sure you can find an echo chamber somewhere else if that's your thing (I know of at least one awful dump you can visit).

On a side note, how is her health? I've seen clips of several coughing episodes disrupting speeches. Does she have anything going on we're not aware of?

romancing the 1990-ies? All the others know in their heearts, but try to talk each other out of reaching the inevitable conclusion: that it is better for the party to tell Clinton that Third Way's time has come and gone, and would she please go too.

I find it difficult to believe that if Hillary won the nomination, the vast majority of DUers wouldn't support her with everything they had...

but I doubt it would be with everything they had.

A different way to ask the question would be: After the primary, do you see her support growing or has she topped out? The past suggests she doesn't gain supporters as the campaign proceeds and the polls suggest she doesn't do very well with independents. Even if she could unite all the Dems, it wouldn't be enough if she can't attract independents. I have yet to see compelling evidence she can do this.

This is the situation the party put itself in by going all in for the candidate who believes it's her turn, telling voters what are you going to do? You'll have to vote for her because there's nowhere else for you to go. It's a cynical, arrogant attitude.