2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumcan we agree: long lines causing people to leave without voting is a scandal?
I don't care who that benefits in terms of relative performance--this is undemocratic and exclusionary.
intrepidity
(7,335 posts)Unacceptable, period.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Than their "preferred" candidate... DISHONEST!!!!
I AM SICK of THESE Fucking CROOKS!
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Doesn't make sense
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)Voting should not be a 5 hour process.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)they had to work or were sick or could not get to the caucus location. It is not at all fair.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)Shameful!
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)can unequivocally agree on.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Haha.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Halsey
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)The DNC shoud require all states to have primaries instead of caucuses in 4 years.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)In America.
America isn't so big on democracy.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)informed, civic minded and well educated populace in order to work, which is why it doesn't.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)these caucuses are a mess.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)And there are too often unconscionably long lines during the general election.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)Anyway, caucuses were made to fight corruption and smoke filled rooms where insiders pick the winners.
The problem is that we need to make election days, holidays. Period. No employer should be able to threaten an employee to come into work on an election day.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Caucuses measure depth of support. Primaries measure breadth of support.
If your supporters don't want to caucus, and are not willing to accept all that entails, your support is not a deep as it should be.
JI7
(89,262 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)So no, if they are not willing to stick around through the entire process, too friggin bad. Their support for the candidate is not deep enough.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Welcome to the New Democratic party. Where if you're too poor to take a day off work or can't find or afford a babysitter, you shouldn't have a voice.
JI7
(89,262 posts)Are not able to participate as much as they might.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)1) Live in Nevada
2) Register as a Democrat
3) Become Active in the party
4) Become a delegate to the state convention
5) Work to remove Nevada from one of the "First in the Nation" states
6) Be satisfied with having really no say in the presidential nomination process because you now get your say in June when the state holds its primaries.
JI7
(89,262 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)IT's THEIR choice, not yours.
JI7
(89,262 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The Nevada State Democratic Party have decide they would use a caucus system.
Delegates to the State Convention can choose to forego the caucus system and have their voices heard in June when the state holds statewide primaries. I just don't see that happening, though. Now their voices mean something. If they went with June, nobody would give a shit.
JI7
(89,262 posts)Rocky the Leprechaun
(222 posts)Mine is George Washington High. Where is yours?
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)elderly, disabled, people who can't get off work, don't have childcare? Seems like they are outdated to me, particularly considering how much society has changed.
A long early vote period shows intensity too. During early vote GOTV in my city, we run vans around and knock doors almost continuously trying to flush out every supporter possible. The intensity of the volunteers and the ground game of the candidate is measured, and every person who wants to vote pretty much can. Also why Reps HATE the early vote But it holds true in the primary too.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)the Caucus system is deeply flawed, anyone who says otherwise benefits from a flawed system.
tblue37
(65,483 posts)of for them, or disabilities that make such long, exhausting processes impossible.
Guess which demogaphics are most likely to be found among those who CAN handle the long, exhausting process, and which demographics will be disenfranchised by them.
Now, which demographcs are supposedly the Dem base, and which the GOP base.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Caucuses require commitment from the supporters. If you cannot be committed enough, the caucus measures that by your lack of attendance.
tblue37
(65,483 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Too bad though, primaries are too expensive for state parties to bear the burden.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)than Democratic. Keep it up, you are helping to elect Senator Sanders,
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)If the DNC ever wants the Democratic Party to be democratic, then it will get rid of caucuses so that more people can vote and their votes count equally.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)IF you cannot commit, you have no voice.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)The electorate at large serms to want a primary election process and not the ridiculous caucuses. My understanding is that in NV the caucus process keeps coming back mostly due to the costs to the state to run a primary election.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The state run and paid for primaries are held in June, when nobody would give a damn what Nevada thought of the presidential race.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)...just so I can argue with people in a stuffy room.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)If you are not willing to take enough time off work to caucus, your support is not deep enough.
If you don't like the NV Caucus, live in NV, register as a Dem, become highly active in the party, become a delegate to the state convention, work to have Nevada removed as one of the first in the nation and move the choice to the Nevada Primary held in June.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Otherwise, you can just bitch and moan about the process and it will remain the same.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I've been bashing caucases for a decade.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Rightly so.
You live in Colorado.
You have no say in the matter.
Rocky the Leprechaun
(222 posts)So I'm curious.
I just told you I live in SE Denver, and will be caucusing at GWHS.
JI7
(89,262 posts)Up his poll numbers if anyone criticises him.
One has nothing to do with the other.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)But it was deemed too costly.
tblue37
(65,483 posts)jobs are hard to come by for many these days.
Who will pay their bills and feed their families if they choose caucusing over work? It isn't as though our social safety net is still all that functional.
And the single mother who leaves her kids home alone will be excoriated if something happens while she is caucusing--or even if something doesn't, if someone finds out she has done that. And if she 's a PoC, she will probably be arrested and her kids taken from her and placed in foster care.
No, it is ridiculous to say everone has an equal choice.
It's like the old joke that a pauper and a millionaire both have an equal right to choose to sleep under a bridge.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Otherwise, it's just too damned bad. Many states require parties pay for primaries or hold them so late the state has no real say in the nomination process. NV primaries are in June. The State party jumped at the opportunity ti become one of the first in the nation but the only financially viable way to do that was with caucuses.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)Today I put in my time off request for the caucus date. I can do that because I have about 90 hours of accrued vacation time, and a month and 5 days is plenty sufficient notice to file to use such time.
But hell, not everyone has vacation time. This time last year, I was working two jobs, and while I probably could have arranged for the time off from one or the other, coordinating time off from both simultaneously was such a major pain in the ass that I literally only attempted it once. I didn't know what my schedule would be the next week, let alone a month out. I count my lucky stars I was able to quit the second job last fall.
Had this election fallen a year ago, I would have been voiceless because I did not have access to the fringe benefits that you take for granted. I certainly do not take my voice for granted and that is why I've submitted a vacation request (something I couldn't do this time last year) to have the caucus day in its entirety off. I wish we had primaries (in fact primaries were mandated by voter initiative in our state but the Democratic Party sued in court, and won, to overturn the will of the voters and keep its caucuses for delegate allocation).
"Caucuses measure depth of support..." sure they do, amongst professionals and people who are high enough on the socioeconomic ladder to take a day's vacation time. Oh, and those who don't have vacation time offered by their employer tend to be the ones least able to afford a lost day's wages from taking the day off anyway.
I suspect that's why Harry Reid placed some phone calls to the casinos on the Strip. I'm not so fortunate as to have politicians give a damn about my ability to participate in the political process like that.
But hey. Even though I've been a Democrat since 2003 (the year I turned 18), my ability (or inability) to participate in the nomination process is of no consequence or concern to Hillary supporters like you. The dripping condescension and arrogance is clear.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Elderly and disabled may not be able to stand for several hours. People who work or go to school may not be able to block out several hours mid day. Union leaders or bosses may pressure or threaten members since no secret ballots. There might be an argument made for caucuses in a small rural community. In a large city they're undemocratic.
Ligyron
(7,639 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Why do you hate the Democratic Party?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)because history has proved it's a failed economic system.
And it's looking pretty solid that Hillary won by more than 3% today.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Emergency personnel, older voters, people who are sick, etc. Caucuses should go. Also registering to vote needs to be easier.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Caucuses measure the depth of support.
Primaries measure the breadth of support.
fullautohotdog
(90 posts)So only people who have nothing to do on a Saturday should have a voice? Because everyone works a Monday through Friday 9 to 5 and has money for a babysitter on the weekends, apparently. How very republican (and Republican) of you.
I've been rubbed horribly the wrong way by Bernie supporters. Thank you for helping balance that out. I only wish I didn't live in a state that has no influence on the primary or general, otherwise it might matter I'm considering changing my support from Hillary.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)If you cannot commit enough to make arrangements and insure you will attend the caucus, then you are simply not committed enough to be counted in the caucus system.
rpannier
(24,333 posts)with someone who is physically challenged or disabled?
You've made some really good arguments in favor of Clinton
This is by far one of your worst because your argument seems to be okay with a system that is discriminating against the elderly, the physically challenged, those who work more than one job (the poor), members of the armed service, etc
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Holding a special primary in February is cost prohibitive for the state party.
The only other choice is waiting for June when your vote wouldn't mean a damn any way.
Organizations are faced with choices in this life. In my opinion, the Nevada Democratic Party made the best choice available to them.
rpannier
(24,333 posts)It sounds like you're taking an "As long as we win I don't care' approach
So, gonna let it go
But, it's still a pretty weak argument that they aren't committed because they have to get to work to feed their families or their physical challenge prevents them from fully participating
fullautohotdog
(90 posts)Eight years ago, Nevada officials decided going early was more important than the will of the voters.
Because screw poor people who can't spend all Saturday at a caucus, as well as those out of town for work, school, military service, etc. Only the upper-middle and upper classes should count.
How democratic (and Democratic) of you.
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)then that is a problem with the process.
People wait in line and then give up so they can go back to work.
that is thwarting the process.
It is far from a test to show depth of support when they can't exercise their support.
Bull.On.That
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...don't have to work on Saturday or don't have young children to be left alone for hours on end, you might want to think about coming up with a more fair DEMOCRATic process. Keep us informed.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)And then the supporters fight to the death. Whoever is standing at the end, their candidate gets all the delegates. If your fighter loses, clearly they didn't train enough and their depth of support wasn't up to snuff.
If you want to get your candidate elected, you have to prove you're dedication with blood!
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)WTF
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)JI7
(89,262 posts)And vote by mail
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)All states should move to primaries.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)I find the process strange and prone to error or worse.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Florida voting is less rigged.
Response to tammywammy (Reply #13)
Name removed Message auto-removed
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)caucuses are cheaper than a primary.
I wish there was a way to go with a rotating primary schedule. I'm glad that I have two weeks to vote before Election Day, and that includes weekend days too. I just remember when I worked retail, there's no way I would have been able to caucus on a Saturday, and only so many could be off at once. I just disagree with caucuses altogether.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
jwirr
(39,215 posts)SamKnause
(13,110 posts)If you work you can't go. (Some of the people today said they would be
punished if they were gone longer than 1 1/2 hour)
If you are severely disabled you can't go.
If you have no transportation you can't go.
If you have no money for public transportation you can't go.
If you are the care giver for a sick family member you can't go.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)At a caucus, why would a long line make you leave? You have to be there for hours anyway.
.
valerief
(53,235 posts)can be.
Green Texan
(31 posts)It looks like a mess in Nevada right now. People in Nevada are saying they want to have a primary like other states.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)weren't told to register earlier than day of. Anyone who has visited a doctor's office for the first time knows that filling out paperwork slows things down.
Did they expect to walk in and scan their credit card or ID and that was it?
A little common sense would a helped.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)The ppl registers had to waitu
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Kittycat
(10,493 posts)I'll take my ballot over this any day. I get the excitement and all, but still.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)musicblind
(4,484 posts)Every person who wants to vote should get to vote.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)If people take the time to show up, they should be able to vote.
Other reasons I think caucuses, in general, are a crock. No early vote, no absentee. What about the disabled, those who need to work, parents of small children who can't get childcare. Even coming down with a heinous cold or the flu means you might not be able to vote. Car breaks down.... on and on.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)these are just some of the problems
traffic
long lines
people in charge not knowing what they are doing
not enough forms
people misrepresenting themselves trying to trick people
problems getting registered
is is a travesty in 2016
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)all the t's crossed and all the i's dotted.
This is not looking good.
I am really sick of saying:
"This makes me sick."
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)you know its bad when fox news is standing up for a broken system....
demmiblue
(36,875 posts)DAMANgoldberg
(1,278 posts)Set aside a date, such as the 1st Saturday in April, for presidential primaries with early voting and vote by mail or secured internet options. Then have a national run-off date with the top 2 candidates in the Republican, Democratic, and Non-affiliated parties 1 month later if necessary. If you want to make it later in the year to compress the cycle, that would be fine with me.
potone
(1,701 posts)Our system is profoundly anti-democratic. People who live on the West Coast have very little say in who the nominee is. It is absurd that a state with the population of California has less influence than a state with the population of New Hampshire, Iowa or Nevada. And while we are at it, we need to get rid of the Electoral College too, and have a national vote for president.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)There's a long history of "unknown" candidates coming from nowhere to win the primary. That is not possible with a national primary day.
A national primary day makes it all about the media.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)On to South Carolina. Things are getting interesting.
MerryBlooms
(11,771 posts)Unless those voters in caucus states put the pressure on for change, it is what it is.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)It's a clusterfuck because so many people left early for work. The lines waits and crowds were huge, we had to move to the orchestra room
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I do think more polling places is better than less. I also like absentee and on-line voting. Everyone should have an opportunity.
brooklynite
(94,699 posts)...so if everyone shows up at once, that's anti-Democratic?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)brooklynite
(94,699 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)It's the only way we can deal with our ever-expanding population.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
George II
(67,782 posts)....in 2008 waited 6-8 hours to get in, very few left without voting.
JI7
(89,262 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)... and to push any state Democratic Party responsible for running caucuses to fix their systems!
Ensuring that every American can easily cast their vote and have that vote accurately counted is fundamental. And too often it's a forgotten issue. For example:
>> Democracy for America doesn't list voting rights/election protection on its list of "Issues We Care About."
>> MoveOn.org doesn't have a campaign related to voting rights/election protection.
>> NDN doesn't include voting rights/election protection on its list of programs.
>> Progressive Policy Institute doesn't include voting rights/election protection on its list of issues.
As far as Congress and Senate members -- I visited a few sites. No sign of "Voter Access Protection/Election Integrity" as a priority.
The ONLY place I found "Voter Access Protection/Election Integrity" listed as an issue/campaign is on the Progressive Democrats of America site. (Cheers for them!)
I've occasionally asked a speaker at a forum I attended why election protection isn't a priority for their organization. "I don't know" was the usual answer. Sometimes "it should be." Once I was flabbergasted when a person from NDN said she thought it was an issue for the parties. Sure, caucuses are run by Parties and they need to be pushed to fix their systems, but primaries and general elections are run by the state. Ensuring we can vote, and have those votes accurately counted, is central to the integrity of our government. As such, it is an issue for our government. And it's an issue that political organizations and office holders need to make a priority.
Years ago I did my own little letter writing / faxing campaign calling on selected groups and office holders to make election protection an issue. Time to do it again. If more of us find the time to do the same, perhaps we can put this "forgotten issue" on more agendas.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Omaha Steve
(99,698 posts)The turnout (it was out first ever) was so heavy at the one location for Sarpy County, the sheriff shut down the road in.
OS
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Original post)
cyberpj This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Whenever I've voted I've just gone straight in, max three people in front of me.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Geez, I would never leave, especially after putting in several hours.
The lines should not be long and whatever causes them to should be addressed, but if something happens and it is longer, don't give up and go home.
JustAnotherGen
(31,866 posts)That's shameful.
Triana
(22,666 posts)Polls close at 7:00 p.m. Still in line? Too bad. Go home 'cause you ain't votin'. One of their post-VRA actions there.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)makes the Democratic Party look not too Democratic....
?
Liberty Belle
(9,535 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Please post whatever documentation you have on this there. Thanks.