2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe fingerwagging at the Clinton camp for echoing Huerta's claims is pathetic. Sanders is fine.
That dodge completely disregards the shabby treatment this accomplished woman encountered at the caucus from Sanders supporters. All of this in defense of a politician. Pathetic. Care for nothing but a candidate who lost NOTHING in this incident.
Who the hell here knows what she heard? Huerta was not allowed to interpret and English ended up being the only language used for participants, just because Sanders supporters raised a stink. That nonsense began with Dolores Huerta shouted down from the stage.
And the Snopes ruling of 'false' relies on the Think Progress article where she describes the harsh treatment she received there.
from TP:
The fellow that was running the caucus said that the first person to come up to the stage could translate, so I went up. Nobody else did, she said. Then the Bernie people started yelling no, no, no. One of their people came up, and I suggested we both translate. But the moderator decided we would have no translation. So the Bernie people preferred we would have no translation just because I was going to do the translating. Its ridiculous, because if I had said something that wasnt accurate, Im sure somebody would have corrected me.
A blurry, barely-audible video claiming to show this confrontation was briefly posted on Facebook by Clinton supporters on Saturday. Actress America Ferrera tweeted earlier on Saturday that people had shouted English only at Huerta, which Huerta confirmed.
The room was divided with the Hillary people on one side and the Bernie people on the other, Huerta said. It was really unfortunate, because there were many Spanish-speaking voters, the casino workers. We wanted to make it more comfortable for them, so they could know what was going on.
Delia Garcia, the woman who originally posted the video, told ThinkProgress she was with union members who needed a translator.
We were with the Culinary Workers, and a good chunk of our supporters wanted a translator, she said. Dolores Huerta started going up there and Bernie supporters started booing, saying, Dont let her get up there.'
Im so disappointed because Dolores Huerta is a progressive icon in for our community, not just Latinas, but labor, women, everybody to treat her that way is just not cool, she said. I hope its an isolated incident.
There's not much to defend about the conduct of the Sanders people at that caucus. Lashing out at those of us appalled at the treatment she received doesn't address that at all. Sanders is fine. This wonderful woman was the one mistreated here.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Above is Delores Huerta Foundation Receiving $100k from Clinton Foundation in 2010
See pdf page 34... There it is! http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/300/300048438/300048438_201012_990PF.pdf
Hillbots could care less how CORRUPT are the Clintons... pitiful
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)You are not helping your candidate.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)She's a national treasure! Fuck that, she lied and shilled and got busted. Deal with it.
Hekate
(90,769 posts)JURY: Poster is referring to Dolores Huerta as a "sacred cow," as in (quote) "Don't you dare speak out about our sacred cow!!!"
I am using a literary device which parallels the words he uses.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Tweet that shit. Go ahead.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Pay no attention to that Super-PAC/Super-delegate/shill/lies...
So, be quite everybody!
Now, assuming everyone falls in line... how do you feel about the way the Clintons are running their good ole American campaign?
Proud as punch? I don't see that as being particularly helpful to any Democrat.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...what a spectacle to see the excuses for treating this American icon this way.
Shameful.
frylock
(34,825 posts)She. Lied.
Hekate
(90,769 posts)JURY: No insult intended. No prevarication committed.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)JURY: "Broken record" is a term from Olden Times referring to a vinyl LP played on something called a "record player." When scratched, the needle would bounce back rather than proceeding, resulting in a phrase repeated ad infinitum. Hence the term.
frylock
(34,825 posts)prove that nobody chanted "English only". Her tweet, which has been retweeted nearly 4000 time, remains at the top of her feed without a retraction or clarification of what actually transpired. She lied.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Very telling she does not delete it
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)But ignorance is ignorance, and ignorance can kill. <--- No sarcasm intended.
Response to CorporatistNation (Reply #1)
Post removed
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)or the contribution. That's the "sleaze" in all this.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)She has not retracted that post from twitter. She. Lied.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The bashing of Civil Rights icons because they haven't endorsed Sanders is really despicable.
frylock
(34,825 posts)An apology would be in order too, if she had any honor.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)What other privileges does her status of icon afford her?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)supporters are opposed to giving even good Democrats.
frylock
(34,825 posts)That's what this is about. Do not change the fucking subject.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Bye.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)shireen
(8,333 posts)I mean, she's pretty elderly and the room was quite noisy.
Just wondering ... it could have been a misunderstanding that spiraled out of control.
Hekate
(90,769 posts)Thank you for being reasonable, when others are running with this like rabid dogs.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)...the bullying is a familiar tactic.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)@WyzeChef first John Lewis, now Ms. Huerta. Ripping down civil rights icons of color and replacing them with a political candidate. Unreal.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The bullying just goes on forever
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...to suit their defense of their candidate.
Here's the campaign actually caught cheating in THIS election, fired a senior staffer and others, still haven't gotten the full account of their malfeasance, and they want to lecture us on truthfulness.
Apparently, now it's fine with them to run minority icons (and others) down to suit petty defenses of their candidate and campaign. have you seen ANY defense of this woman from the Sanders camp? What the hell do they expect, that we're just going to stand around and watch them beat her down from the caucus to this forum?
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)mcar
(42,366 posts)It is completely possible that some Sanders supporters behaved badly toward Ms. Huerta yesterday. That does not mean that Bernie is bad.
The over the top attacking of this noble woman because she dares to support HRC is just mind boggling. And sad. And a really awful campaign strategy.
plus5mace
(140 posts)There is a well developed pattern now. The ratfucking will continue for the entire god damned primary.
Hekate
(90,769 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I'm just going to call this crap out from now on. I encourage everyone to do the same everywhere. That is all this entire post is. A campaign tactic. Don't stand for it any longer.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...you're not defending against racism, you're defending your candidate's sweet self.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I'm defending my candidate because the campaign you support smeared him and his supporters yet again, and I'm doing by pointing out that you are pushing a talking point specifically crafted to divide by race. Two birds, one stone.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)I mean seriously, there is video evidence, eye witness evidence and even the person in question has now walked back what she thought she heard. Lies get called out.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...what I read was an expounding of her earlier claim.
Not one thing in that article said she was 'walking it back.'
She has witnesses corroborating her version, as well.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)...said.
OR she 'misheard' and it was only the moderator not allowing translations since there were no neutrals present as he later statement said. You can't have it both ways. You obviously want to. But you can't.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)Petrushka
(3,709 posts)uponit7771
(90,348 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)but you know having a foundation and accepting donations, OMG this Huerta woman is just horrible, LOL.
frylock
(34,825 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)an 85 year old labor activist. idiots.
starting at 53 minutes in.
https://www.ustream.tv/embed/recorded/83452078?html5ui
Hekate
(90,769 posts)So, did Bernie supporters shout down an elderly woman who has a lifelong history of labor-rights activism? Do they even have a clue who she is and what she has achieved?
frylock
(34,825 posts)kiva
(4,373 posts)Have you ever caucused? The temporary and permanent chairs have to be scrupulous about their neutrality. The two chairs at my location were both Hillary supporters and had to step back from that role and make sure everything they did was transparent and observed by a Bernie supporter.
It wasn't Bernie supporters who refused to allow Huerta to translate, it was the person she refers to as the 'moderator' who decided not to have a translator. And I would have also protested if someone who was clearly supporting a candidate was allowed to be the sole translator at a caucus.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)... who has a lifelong history of labor-rights activism? Do they even know who she is?
desmiller
(747 posts)"I'm gonna own your ass like its 2008."
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Everyone needs to bring their A game and get Bernie the nomination. I can think of nothing that would hurt her more than to be a two time loser.
desmiller
(747 posts)I'm with you.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)daveweigelVerified account
?@daveweigel
"Sanders surrogates went after Huerta in a conference call today"
I asked him to elaborate and he hasn't and he should.
I would agree with people who think it's not fair to throw that out and not explain himself, but it's hard to believe he would report this frivolously.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Both sides would do well to drop this. The account you give is exaggerated, and the outrage from both sides is exaggerated, and the descriptions of bad motives are exaggerated, and... everything about this is blown way out of proportion. We long ago passed the ridiculous on the way to the sublime. Instead of letting it drop, as we should, we're escalating, firing salvo after salvo of selectively culled facts, baseless aspersions, ridiculous phony outrage, and just plain crap.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)The camel can only carry so many straws. This is a ongoing attempt to divide us by race. Its antithetical to everything we should stand for and outrage is a mild word to describe this.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Get on board, or get out of the way.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)No one was shouting English only, that was another fabrication by a Clinton surrogate, like we've come to expect.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...which hardly disproves her claims.
So much for the reliability of Snopes.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Chants, to the moderator now saying no translations since there was no neutral. I ask again Bigtree, what are you going to believe? The facts, or some made up bullshit that lets you continue to wallow in the mud?
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...that quote of yours doesn't appear on Snopes or Think Progress.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Your choice.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)TIA
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)CLAIM: Supporters of Bernie Sanders shouted "English only" at civil rights activist Dolores Huerta during one Nevada caucus event, ostensibly objecting to a translation of remarks into Spanish.
FALSE
http://www.snopes.com/sanders-english-only-huerta/
Hekate
(90,769 posts)dchill
(38,516 posts)Don't start something you can't finish.
artislife
(9,497 posts)It is funny, because there really is so little support for Latinos on this site except for their votes, but not our causes.
I think we are all just votas.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...which will earn you a hide (as far as I'm concerned) for your posts for the forseeable future. Unfortunate. You have access to a google search.
I'm 55 years old, artislife. My life experience doesn't begin and end with DU.
a few bigtree posts from the past
Feb 20, 2008
Dolores Huerta, co-founder of United Farm Workers with Cesar Chavez, has been stumping for Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4679349
May 30, 2012
Sí, se puede, Dolores Huerta
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002742905
in that post:
May 30, 2012 Lyrics to Corrido De Dolores Huerta :
En Dawson, Nuevo Mexico
El diez de abril
Nacio Dolores Huerta
Nadie se lo imaginaba
Que ella iria encabezar
Parte del gran movimiento
En Stockton, California
Donde ella se crio
Empezo a ver la injusticia
Que el campesino ha sufrido
Sin la representacion
Que una union le daria
Me acuerdo que alla en Delano
El sesenta y dos
Se asocio con Cesar Chavez
Y entre el y la Dolores
Formularon una union
Que llego a cambiar les leyes
Su sentir de mujer
Dirigio por buen camino
Del mejor por venir
Al humilde campesino
Su sentir de mujer
Le presto a la union la fuerza
Te has ganado la flor
De la paz, Dolores Huerta
Despues que organizaron
La gente en la union
Imponieron una huelga
Para hablar de los contratos
Tambien para nagociar
Apuntaron a la Huerta
Cesar Chavez les decia
"Vamos a ganar
Esta huelga sin violencia
La revolucion social
Hay que ganarla con la paz
Derramar sangre no es ciencia"
Y un dia en Arizona
La gente decia
"Ay Dolores, no se puede!"
La Dolores les contesta
"Esto sera nuestro grito
Si se puede! Si se puede!"
Su sentir de mujer
Dirigio por buen camino
Del mejor por venir
Al humilde campesino
Su sentir de mujer
Le presto a la union la fuerza
Te has ganado la flor
De la paz, Dolores Huerta
http://www.lyricsmania.com/corrido_de_dolores_huerta_lyrics_los_lobos.html
In Dawson, New Mexico
The April 10
Dolores Huerta was born
Nobody imagined
That she would go head
Part of the great movement
In Stockton, California
Where she grew up
He began to see the injustice
The farmer has suffered
No representation
That a union would give
I remember there in Delano
Sixty-two
Cesar Chavez was associated with
And between him and the Dolores
Made a union
I get to change their laws
His sense of woman
Headed in the right direction
The best to come
The humble peasant
His sense of woman
Lend strength to the union
You won the flower
Of peace, Dolores Huerta
Then they organized
People in the union
Imponieron strike
To speak of contracts
Also for nagociar
They pointed to the Huerta
Cesar Chavez told them
"We will win
This strike without violence
The social revolution
We must win the peace
Bloodshed is not science "
And one day in Arizona
The people said
"Oh Dolores, you can not!"
The pains are answered
"This will be our cry
Yes we can! Yes we can! "
His sense of woman
Headed in the right direction
The best to come
The humble peasant
His sense of woman
Lend strength to the union
You won the flower
Of peace, Dolores Huerta
frylock
(34,825 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)I am a bit sick of one side pretending they care during election years the rest of the time well not so much.
jfern
(5,204 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)...essentially cheating. Not the best platform to call anyone else a liar or any other deflection you can conjure.
jfern
(5,204 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)...no one has to take that nonsense.
frylock
(34,825 posts)It's like 2008 all up in here.
jfern
(5,204 posts)We are sick of the lying race-baiters. Hillary has earned her 67% not honest and trustworthy rating. Let me guess, you somehow think that it's OK to nominate a candidate who 67% of Americans say isn't honest and trustworthy?
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)and they keep getting caught, and you keep denying. Nobody is buying it. It looks ridiculous to double down on a debunked lie.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Not going to be guilt tripped for calling out this slimy shit.
Green Texan
(31 posts)The desperation form Hillary's campaign and her supporters is way over the top.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and it obviously pissed off a few assholes. Yelling at Huerta - an 85 year old volunteer - to "get off the stage".
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)The crowd calling for that neutral translator rather than a partisan has nothing to do with winning or losing. It has to do with rules, of which nobody is above. Honestly though, I don't fault you for the bullshit you slam on every one of these threads. It's just how Hillary has raised you.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)people, which would have been the responsible thing to do. But the crowd cheered when he caved and said "english only".
Please post a link to "the rule"? And you should maybe try and resist with the personal insults, it really does not speak well of you. I've had about enough of that bullshit.
Hekate
(90,769 posts)...for going after one Civil Rights icon after another. I wonder who's going to be next?
Logical
(22,457 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Totally bogus factcheck for too many reasons to ennumerate.
Logical
(22,457 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)dchill
(38,516 posts)Projection much?
mcar
(42,366 posts)and the ongoing smearing of her character, is absolutely disgusting and shameful.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)"The person who was running the caucus ... people were saying we need a translator, so he said the first person that comes to the stage can be the translator," Huerta said. "So I went up to the front to be the translator."
The video above shows that her appearance onstage wasn't so well received. Some Sanders supporters may have been disturbed by the idea of a Clinton supporter interpreting events for the entire crowd. But that doesn't explain everything Huerta said she heard from the crowd.
"It was mostly the organizers," Huerta continued. "The Bernie organizers were shouting, 'No, no, no.' Then a Bernie person stood up and said said, 'No, we need to have it, I can also do translation' or whatever. The person who ran the caucus said, 'Well, we wont have a translator.' The sad thing about this is that some of the organizers were shouting, 'English only! English only!' The Bernie organizers."
Again, this is what Huerta says happened when she tried to interpret from English to Spanish at a Nevada caucus site. The crowd apparently included a large number of Bernie Sanders supporters. And given that much of the Las Vegas strip's workforce is made up of Latino Americans and Latino immigrants, one would expect that some people in the crowd might have wanted to hear Huerta.
Instead, Huerta and actress America Ferrera, an on-the-record Hillary Clinton supporter, both tweeted that Huerta was shouted down with chants of, "English only!"
It sounds like Huerta heard exactly what she said she heard. She's pretty damn clear on that.
Sid
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...thanks for posting!
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Your flailing fuck up last night, or the continuing pathetic attempt to save face. Ffs give it a rest.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)and noises they were making were deliberately intended to intimidate her.
She was there and she heard what she heard. There may also have been other chants that were different from what she heard. But if she said that she heard "English only," I give her the benefit of the doubt.
I wasn't there and 99.9% of DUers probably were not there either. But she is someone who has paid her dues and deserves respect. She does NOT deserve shouting and chanting intended to intimidate from any person who claims to be a progressive or a liberal.
That is GOPer behavior.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)"She was there and she heard what she heard."
Sid
frylock
(34,825 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)Were Bernie supporters shouting at her?
Were they chanting at her?
Were they trying to intimidate her?
The answer to all three questions is "yes."
frylock
(34,825 posts)If she was mistaken, she should clear that up. This moving of goalposts is fucking nonsense. You people have gone from likening us to xenophobic, bigoted assholes on a level with Trump supporters to, oh they were so rude to interrupt her. Hillarians have been using race as a wedge from fucking jump.
BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)She was not the only one who did. She has also earned the right to be believed when she says such a thing. I believe her.
Unless an eyewitness was standing right where she was and not hearing the things that she was hearing - which has not been the case, so far at least - there is absolutely no way to show that she was wrong.
"You people" Just
frylock
(34,825 posts)What other privileges does her status afford her? And yeah, YOU people. Team Hillary.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)It's a common human trait that everyone is capable of despite their "status" above other citizenry .
Hekate
(90,769 posts)One who happens to be a legend in labor rights activism?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Even heroes are fallible.
The problem is that your candidates campaign is perfectly happy to cling to and catapult lies that support your "berniebro" narrative.
This sucks because;
1) It's douchebaggery.
2) At one point, a few months ago, it was perfectly imaginable that we might nominate Clinton and preserve the coalition that Bernie cultivated and brought to the party. This potential base of new support has now been squandered by calling us racists and misogynists.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...from a scorched earth, anti-Hillary campaign which can't seem to find a supporter of Clinton they can bear.
If Sanders manages to gain the nomination, there's little doubt that party regulars and others who make up the Clinton support will rally behind him for the win.
Not so clear what Sanders supporters will do if they lose, many of them outwardly alienating themselves from the Democratic party. That's their responsibility if they care at all about defeating the republican nominee.
The victim thing, deflecting against people calling out clear bigotry by calling them 'race-baiters' and the like has worn thin in this campaign. It's a lame tactic which is as old as the debate over equality itself, used to deflect blame for objectionable acts.
Stop playing the victim and defend against this sort of bullying we saw in this Nevada caucus against this labor rights icon.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)She makes the same claim now she made about Barack. What about that?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)...is "clear bigotry"?
Does the projection inherent in accusing Sanders supporters of "the victim thing... which has worn thin" cause any cognitive dissonance?
I get message discipline; I even approve of it to some degree - there are worse things than to be called a one-issue candidate. But when that one issue is how horrible coalition supporting her opponent is, it's reasonable to a) question why she can't come up with something better and b) wonder why they keep with it when they have to walk back each slanderous and easily disproven scummy attack.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...you chose to generalize this with a broad brush attack.
you:
The problem is that your candidates campaign is perfectly happy to cling to and catapult lies that support your "berniebro" narrative.
This sucks because;
1) It's douchebaggery.
2) At one point, a few months ago, it was perfectly imaginable that we might nominate Clinton and preserve the coalition that Bernie cultivated and brought to the party. This potential base of new support has now been squandered by calling us racists and misogynists.
me:
The victim thing, deflecting against people calling out clear bigotry by calling them 'race-baiters' and the like has worn thin in this campaign. It's a lame tactic which is as old as the debate over equality itself, used to deflect blame for objectionable acts.
If you really want my answer as to how I view what transpired, read through the thread.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Hekate
(90,769 posts)Scatter the Old world, build the New!
Smash the Four Olds!
Smash the Gang of Four!
Eventually they'll get around to Have fewer Children, raise more Pigs -- but in the meantime, pupil is turning against teacher, the white hairs of age garner no respect, and the survivors of the Long March are suspect. We didn't even get to try letting 100 flowers bloom.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)suppression and oppression of them, said Senator Obama avoided Latinos and had poor judgement and little courage I took issue with her because her words were pure bullshit.
Do you think Obama engaged in huge intimidation of Latinos in 08? One assumes that you do.
2008:A Spanish-language ad praising Obama says Clinton disrespects Latinos; Huerta strikes back, charging Obama supporters with intimidating Clinton voters.
But United Farmworkers Union co-founder Dolores Huerta went further, accusing the Culinary Workers Union of intimidating Clinton supporters and keeping them away from the caucuses. Union leaders are telling Clinton backers if they dont vote for Obama, they wont get transportation, they will be fired, Huerta said. She also argued that Clinton has a cultural, political and social relationship with the Latino community, which Senator Obama does not have. Latinos call Clinton Hilaria, Huerta said, adding derisively that they call Sen. Obama Como se llama? (as in Whats his name?)
http://www.salon.com/2008/01/19/huerta_obama/
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...so much so, that it resulted in an agreement negotiated by the Clinton camp for the casinos to allow workers this time around to attend the caucuses without retribution or penalty.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Her rhetoric against Obama was endless. Much of it dog whistle heavy as well.
I'd never support a candidate who had spoken against the rights of yourself or anyone else. You would. Dolores would. And the ethics that allow you to do that allow all of this aggression and dishonesty about others. Every single week, Clinton Camp is doing personal attacks. I hate that. I don't want my country to be like that.
I would never support a any candidate who had opposed the equality of any minority group. Clinton supporters are eager to support such a candidate. I do not respect that.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...it takes nothing to see this woman was the victim here, not Sanders.
After bullying this 85-year old woman, Sanders supporters got their way and there was NO Spanish translation for participants.
Lecturing me about your subjective view of 2008 changes nothing in that.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)They knew there was nobody neutral at the caucus.
They used Brownshirt tactics to "shut it down".
Disgusted by their tactics.