Bill Clinton did more for the Republicans than even Reagan.

Hopefully we won't have to go through that again.

And Hillary's Iraq war vote sure helped the peace.

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

500 000 Iraqis dead due to U.S. lead embargo
Yugoslavian war, in which U.S. fighter jets were hitting the wrong targets...

My tour was on a frigate in the Adriatic Sea at the time..

along the line if she gets the nod. I will also be mightily pissed off.

Madeleine Albright tells us it was worth it, though.

White house, senate, house, supreme court.

Texas School Board.

Poverty and homelessness rose like crazy, and there is little peace to be found when one fears the gas company will come and help try to freeze you to death, or worse you might get roused by cops that thought poor teenage kids on the street were legal punching bags just to be used for fun (no laws needed to be broken, nor victim charged). By the way, my young friends and i ranged from tan to black to white (you see when you were a poor teenage victim of uniformed sadist at the time your lack of financial status and shabby cloths erased any imagined sense of privileged immunity,We got our brokwen ribs and bruised faces equally under this law of sadism that passed for a justice system there.

I am super happy for the wealthy bankers and their exponential increase in wealth and the suburbanites that were still living in comfort enclosed in a tech bubble).

But for many of us, the Clinton years were pretty fucking horrible, yes, even worse than they were with Reagan that started the hijacking of all the money up to the top, but did not get around to simultaneously causing factories in my area to close while destroying the safety net.

Under Reagan the Steel plants started going to China true, but under Clinton and the continuation of Reagan's work, the wave continued with the shipping of many of our working class factory jobs to Mexico.

The poster that claimed those years of peace and prosperity must not only live a life of privilege both then and now, but are completely devoid of humanity and empathy by making such callous statements in the face of what some of us endured and never recovered from. What a Fuck-wad!!!!!

Fuck, I had to wait a few more years but then at 16 I had to quit school and go to work in a shitty job just to live and survive, and I had been looking at a good future having a 98.9 grade average


The reforms and free trade agreements may have meant wealth to yall here, but where I came from, it was when things went from shitty to hopeless.

For some reason just the right button got pushed and I am too angry to post right now, or even read the crap posted here by the mostly well to do even if sometimes the well meaning ones say the right things like whomever I'm responding to. so many post ignorance here of the reality some of us have faced and are facing now. i think the true reality of a much larger world is beyond the sight of the well washed and they may as well be blind to so much because of it.

Maybee in a few weeks, but I cxan't stand the site of ths place riht now, and to think, I am the one that wants us to come together to fight our real enemies when there is so little truth of the real, larger world seen by people that live on this site I must be crazy to think I could convince anybody of something as real and important as that!

That's what happens when there is NO political balance to the Corporate Agenda and it Oligarchy.

and an economic bubble thanks to the growth of the tech industry, during which average wages only grew by 1.9% while productivity increased by 12%. The economic boom of the 1990's had nothing to do with Clinton; all other things being equal, it would've happened anyway. The longterm effect of Clinton's policies did contribute to making the 2008 crash worse, however.

Absolute thread winner right there!

Thanks for the (still ongoing) !

fiction of "Reagan the great" spread around Republican circles and the similar "Clinton feels our pain" (that he caused by destroying the safety net) Bullshit false history surrounds the Clintons on our side just like pukes and Reagan.

For the people unlike you that were affluent it was a time of hardship, tragedy and, suffering and all just so Bill could impress his new Republican friends by showing them he could show cruelty to those in need just as much as any Republican.

I suppose that as long as the well to do did well those were great years for them and so that's all that counts (just like with Reagan)

It would appear your fond memories are based on our suffering, if you lived in a black neighborhood or any other of the mixed poor neighborhoods you would know the Clinton years were marked by tears, hardship, and unnecessary poverty by many, a new poverty that the newly impoverished never really recovered from.

Congratulations to those that prospered on the misery of others, people like me. I suppose those tears of ours taste sweet to them.

But those people don't matter anyway.

Prosperity. NAFTA, minority destroying welfare reform sponsored by that troglodyte Newt Gingrich.

Pass!

. . . it's time for you to get out from underneath your rock.

If you were rich and white

when they cut off your benefits...

Not much prosperity for those people.

If he were running for the Republicans this time (of course they wouldn't let that "socialist" in the party these days), I'd probably vote for him over Hillary.

At least he would tax the wealthy more appropriately than the corporatist Democrats of today, and would not let the MIC take over our spending and ask people justify spending THERE more than so many other places where Bernie's being asked how he's going to pay for spending on items that will benefit the average person more.

Ike hated war. Hillary never met a war she didn't like.

Not just when his tech bubble burst exposing the damage he did that then led to a Depression (fashionably called a great recession), He hurt people in real time back then as well!

Hurt many dearly! People I was close to!

And "New" Democrat deregulation set the foundation for the Great "Recession".

She will be a disaster.

wondering where the fuck my country went wrong.

They don't care how they have to get it or how you feel about it. All they care about is that they get your vote.

Anti-republican is still better than Republican

eom

eom

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Why am I not surprised, though? The grapes were sour with that one!

Here is a thread from 2014 which makes the point I am making in many, many ways. It's that same Stockholm Syndrome poster, doing the same thing to Jews in 2014, you have your now banned troll taking slippery part. You were very effective in that thread.
One of the points is that in 2014, the 'vine' they were falling from sure as shit was not Bernie Sanders. So if you want to find the root, you need to spot the right vine.
"Thank You Internet... I Now Have A Different Understanding Of The Phrase... "Anti-Semitic"...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024385176

If numbers are all that matter, what's stopping you?

But please, one humble request: don't even think about calling it democracy.

It should work.

fairweather soldiers suck

I guess I'm getting a little jaded from the fractiousness at DU

Last edited Tue Feb 23, 2016, 01:53 AM - Edit history (1)

It'll be a greater good vote.

After all, it's how I'd be voting for Sanders if he's the nominee.

I'll vote for her because every time a barrier is broken, such as by having a black president or a woman president, it's important to all minorities. I'll also vote for her because her record is overall pretty liberal. I think her voting record made her the 11th most liberal senator. I think in the heat of this struggle people are perceiving her as something she is not. Unlike Sanders, she never represented a homogeneous population so her voting and her actions reflect the fact that she represented a very diverse population. Sanders, as a career politician from Vermont, was always able to represent primarily a white, middle class, liberal population, allowing him to be quite pure, though on issues like immigration and gun control he certainly played politics.

No complaints.

Nevada was the last straw: many reports, often substantiated with videos, of the corruption and cheating and abuse committed by the Hillary mob there. I now see no difference between a male SOB and a female SOB. I will never vote for one.

It's never Bernie's fault for losing. Guess the stolen data didn't help enough. Bernie also won the majority of coin tosses

Bernie Sanders is the first person in a very long time, that I've actually voted FOR.

And when the time comes, and if Clinton is the nominee, I may well be an undervote.

I just read a bye bye DU journal post calling Hillary the C word. No true Democrat would ever use such language towards a woman. Disgusting filth.

yes indeed

The lesser of two evils vote.

Is it really? I'm not sure a Trump admin would be worse than a Clinton admin. With Trump we have a solid chance at retaking the WH in 2020 with a progressive, maybe even Warren. With Hillary we wait until 2024 for the opportunity to run a genuine progressive candidate again.

Advocating for either? Nope. It's Feb 22nd and only 102 of 4,293 delgates have been officially pledged. Right now it currently sits at a tie 51/51.

Bernie 2016. There's still a long road ahead of every candidate still running.

And all I said, was, "we shall see y'all. "
And I was blocked. What harm was I causing besides dissenting? I was not rude nor abusive. What is with that? No conversation. Just shut me out. Don't get it.

wear being blocked as a badge of honor.

it was Hillary supporters that created PUMA.

We are half of the Democratic Party. Our voices and views deserve a chance to be heard, not just now, but going forward. Without us the Party would be in a world of hurt, just like it would be without you guys. Healing isn't just about us sucking it up and voting for somebody we're unsure about, it's also the responsibility of the other side acknowledging the importance of what we raise and talking about how they empathize with our concerns.

If they can't do that, I'd still vote for her, but Hillary would lose.

it will be a disaster. She is unlikely to win the general, given what the NYTimes called the "visceral dislike" many people have of her. If she does win, she has a good chance to be one of the worst Presidents ever. And we'd have to put up with smirking Bill chasing interns around the White House, and smirking Hedge Fund Chelsea. Gak.

There's no way I will help that happen. At least with Bush, one could say that idiotic Republican. I don't want a President like that from my own party. It would remove any future motivation for people to vote Democratic.

believe that a reluctant or nauseous vote is even sweeter.

Thanks for sharing.

I will vote for every D on the ballot, but I will never vote for Hillary.

The DEM will win my state, so it's a win-win.

It won't matter. It is delusional to think she can win this year

In 2008 I thought I'd hold my nose and vote for her if Obama didn't win. Then in the interim years I pushed my distrust of her to the back of my mind and thought I would actually have no problem voting for her if Sanders didn't win. Then she got desperate and all the nasty lies she says and the divisiveness she encourages became apparent again. Even worse than 2008 because I really believe we have an opportunity to transform our political vision and get back to the roots of the Democratic Party.

My dilemma is I think if Hillary wins the nom and progressives like me fall into lockstep and help her win the GE, we will not see another opportunity for real change in a very very very long time. The corporatists will win, the lobbyists will win and the people will lose. And Third Way Dems will stay in control and the beltway pundits will push the center right story as gospel. Dems will continue to run as Republican lite and nothing changes except the middle class continues shrinking and the poor get poorer.

But if Rubio or Kasich win - or Trump - the country will be reeling. Dems will fight most everything, Congress approval will go further into the toilet and nothing much will get done. Some bad shit might pass and the country will reel from it. And a real strong progressive movement will grow from it. Younger less establishment politicians will know that Third Way Dems are not the answer and stand up again for real small "d" democratic values. Maybe we have to hit the wall to dare to break it. Maybe 4 years after a Republican president, a real progressive has a chance and there will be no opposition from the usual suspects to keep them down.

I know I want something different. If not for me -- then for the young who deserve a country that is standing up for them.

of folks will not be casting a ballot for her in any manner

There's no changing their minds, either.

if I don't like their "rule".


Now I kind of hate some of the Democrats as much as the Republicans, and that takes some doing... congratulations.

Since I don't really care to "reward" the behavior of Hillary and her supporters in this campaign by voting for her in the general election (if she's the nominee, and hasn't been hauled away in handcuffs by federal marshals).... I may just take their advice.

I'll vote for her. But that's the only way.


If I still lived in AK there's no way in Hell I'd cast a vote for her.

I agree

I will do what I feel is right.

the lesser of two evils has never been more evil.

"Woo, look how scary the other side is! You'd better violate your morals and vote for this person who doesn't align with your values at all, or else Hitler Jr. will get in! SCOTUS! SCOOOOTUS!!!!!"

I'm tired of it. If that's what it takes for the Powers That Be to learn that they can't just run whichever slimy power-broker they want, then so be it.

Anyone who thinks a vote for Hillary is no different than a vote for Trump is either extremely naive, or just does not give a damn about humanity or our planet.
If you can not differentiate the values or morality between Hillary and Trump I feel very sorry for you.

I didn't say they had the same values. I said that neither of them represents MY values, and for that reason neither of them get my vote. So you can take your pity and cram it sideways.

Not a cent will be donated, not a second of my time will be dedicated in support of 3rd way neocons like Hillary Clinton

as someeone who has campaigned for, donated to, and gladly voted for her.

Sid

Oh, wait...

she doesn't need Progressive votes because all she needs are PoC in the South. I don't think that sounds right, but they keep saying it so it must be true.

Some Dem candidates have asked for my vote and say they need my vote.