2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow much wd alternative HRC-SBS "free" college expense plans help in alleviating income inequality?
IMO, during her first 100 days as POTUS, Hillary Rodham Clinton very likely would get her former Senate colleagues to pass a research-based $6 billion a year college expense funding plan guaranteed to reduce future economic inequality.
Government could OFFER "free" 4-yesr public college TUITION to all, but cannot ensure that everyone would ACCEPT "free" 4-year public college tuition, except mainly for the wealthy who had planned to send their children to UVa, UMich, Cal Berkeley, etc, anyway.
In contrast, HRC would make tuition and some other expenses "free" ONLY for commuters to community colleges, and would pay away-from-home campus expenses for years three and four ONLY at HBCUs.
Republican TN Gov Bill Haslan already has implemented a very popular version of this research-based idea focused on every 2yr CC but only on a few 4yr public colleges:
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/education/2015/01/25/tennessee-promise-bill-haslam-free-community-college-tuition/22255303/.
His plan has become very popular in that reddest of red states.
HRC's nationwide ACP (America's College Promise) plan, proposed by President Obama in his SOTU, is estimated to cost $6 billion a year, which is very affordable IMO compared to SBS's alternative plan.
IMO ACP would have the support of many industry associations and even some growth-focused Rs during Hillary's "honeymoon"
Not so for Bernie's perhaps research-ignorant cynical ploy to gain political support from white millennials. As thesquanderer has pointed out, the demand for four-year college degrees by children of the wealthy is very inelastic, so driving their tuition costs to zero would provide almost exclusively a tax-transfer consumer surplus windfall to the Trumps, Kochs, Hiltons, etd, with no economic growth benefits. That is the definition of government waste. And that waste would increase current inequality by transferring hard-earned tax revenues from the rest of us to those who can pay their way already.
The White-House / HRC ACP, otoh, would not attract those who could afford four-year college and those who want to extend their adolescence at "frat-party-schools" like West Virginia. Community colleges attract working commuters who largely attend part-time because they have to work, and very few of the wealthy. So almost no taxpayer money would be wasted on the affluent, who would find community college too downscale for their children.
A brilliant book by Harvard econ professors Claudia Goldin and Larry Katz demonstrates convincingly the cost effectiveness of the last exxtension of minimum universal education offer funding, to high schools in all states by the beginning of the twentieth century. This book also demonstrates the ESSENTIAL connection between minimum level of universal education offer funding and economic ineauality. See http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674035300&content=reviews
Note also the likely effect on future inequality of these earnings statistics fron the US Dept of Education, at http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cba.asp
Figure 2. Median annual earnings of full-time year-round workers ages 25 34, by educational attainment: 2013
HS completer $30,000
Associates degree
$37,500
Bachelors degree $48,500
If future earnings go up 25 percent for the large percentage of the poor who are lucky to leave school with a high school diploma, and do not change for those who under the status quo would go on to get bachelors degrees anyway, future inequality MUST come down
Bernie is peddling hot air to the naive and willfully ignorant, IMO.
Bernie's plan surely wouold transfer hundreds of billions of tax dollars to the wealthy with no gain in output of bachelors degrees for employment in growth industries. That would increase inequality now.
Public four-year institutions are concentrated in a handful of university towns in each state. Most who choose to go there would have to live on campus away from home unless their parents happen to live in a university town.
Poor families cannot afford room, board, transportation, pocket money, etc. for students away from home, so, unless the poor family lives in a college town, Bernie's plan is no good to them for four-year educations and the higher earnings such education brings in the future.
If some non-poor kids are induced to get four-year educations with Bernie's plan, that adds to inequality between chilfren of poverty and children of non-poverty in the future, IMO.
angrychair
(8,702 posts)Your racist dog whistles and poor-shaming is disgusting. Under your plan poor and middle class are mostly resigned to 2-year community colleges while wealthier students go to better 4 year universities and colleges and better opportunities.
Your plan is focused on keeping the poor "where they belong". Telling them they don't deserve it or implying they won't fit in at 4-year institutions.
You stated, "Poor families cannot afford room, board, transportation, pocket money, etc. for students away from home"
Reducing costs at these institutions is what this about. Your opinion is, your implication is, since they are poor, they only deserve a 2nd tier education. Your implication is that wealthier and whiter students are better suited for 4 year colleges.
You've changed around some of your wording, using more language to imply how a Sanders plan will hurt PoC, all while resigning them to primarily 2-year community colleges.
Sorry, my friends and family deserve more opportunities than community college with 10 hours a week of slave labor.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)or to a figment of your angry imagination?
Please actually read what I wrote before kicking down my barn.
The self-delete option at the bottom of your post may be the most appropriate reply from you
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)What are you willing to do to brighten your own future? Do you want everything handed to you on a silver platter?
ACP is targeted toward the poor, most of whom GLADLY would work 10 hours a week to be able to commute to community college and have their school expenses paid. The alternative for the poor is NO payoff from a postsecondary degree, even if they were willing to combine school with 100 hours a week of "slave labor". Are you poor?
I suspected that SBS was playing to millenials' sense of entitlement, and your post verifies my suspicions.
"The Lord helps those who help themselves."
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)IMO, during her first 100 days as POTUS, Hillary Rodham Clinton very likely would get her former Senate colleagues to pass a research-based $6 billion a year college expense funding plan guaranteed to reduce future economic inequality.
And how would she do that?
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)would look hypocritical to the folks back home if they did not support extending to the whole country what is working and popular in very red Tennessee. Other red state Senators also are likely to jump on this bandwagon, IMO.
Unlike yours, my post is well thought out. Please feel free to use the "EDIT" option
Apparently, you did not even read to the first blue URL link, just a few lines beyond the first sentence
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...if you think she'll be able to get any Republicans to go along with her, you're way off base already.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)my very short reply to your rude, ignorant and presumptuous post. Again, I recommend "EDIT" or "SELF-DELETE".
Here, I'll even repeat the relevant URL from the OP proving just why you are so WRONG:
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/education/2015/01/25/tennessee-promise-bill-haslam-free-community-college-tuition/22255303/
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)GDP like a speedy-gibberish-posting video game
Red Knight
(704 posts)Poor kids can't afford to go to college anyway because they can't get there so why bother giving free tuition?
Poor kids go to college now. They just bury themselves in astronomical debt to do it.
I can't quite follow your logic. Yes--they may have to pay for some things(they do now with part-time jobs and loans--but they would not have tuition cost). Wouldn't they still be better off?
I have no problem with giving kids the free community college. No problem at all.
But why should they be limited to that? For some--that's great--that's all they want or need.
Some kids want to do more than that. What's the answer for that? More of the same? Massive debt?
I'm not an "economist" so I won't pretend to know all of the numbers on any of this but I do know that there are some economists who believe Bernie's plan IS doable. There's disagreement on that. But either we tell poor kids they are too poor for 4 year schools or we let them bury themselves in debt. You can always tweak these things at an economic scale that seems fair. I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't need the help for his kids. We already do this with some financial aid.
Why shouldn't this country be as good as the rest of the world?
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)through my long post.
I buried this point somewhat--but after a commuter has earned an Associates Degree, ACP will support third and fourth years on campus at a Historically Black College / University such as Howard (DC), Xavier (NOLA) etc.
Is a family living in poverty? Subsidizing their children's's education is not going to cut the intergenerational transmission of poverty if they are not poor. ACP is intended to make a way where currently there is no way, and is targeted to the needs of those who just cannot afford college, even if they were to combine school with 100 hours of low-wage work per week.
Red Knight
(704 posts)I went for a couple years with my VA help. But I helped my kids when I could. Still, they took some loans. It certainly affects their lives. I feel for any of these young people in debt. It's one thing to accumulate debt for dumb things. It feels wrong to start out your young life in debt because you wanted a higher education.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)to HRC's plans to help historically black colleges and universities:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511306931