Outside of DU, virtually no ordinary citizen had even heard of it.

Calling him out... while you ignore the obvious insult to public institutions of higher learning and what privatization of education does for a population that has 3/4 of black incarcerated.

EDUCATION? OR INCARERATION?

You've got your nose ring being pulled right along with the 3rd way platform. NONE OF IT is democratic.

It's fucking shameful.... So, if YOU want to keep it up.... I won't stand in the way of YOUR SHAME.

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:45 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm not here to validate your twisted perception.

I realize that is asking a lot, but getting a grasp on the context of a thread aids in understanding.

By all means, go ahead and continue your nonsense

Doesn't sound like a winning strategy for team Bernie.

She's worried about getting elected PRES-i-DENT !

This is bullshit. If an ASAS or Latino leader or a woman or someone who has cast their lot with Clinton, they are immune from criticism because, well they're "special." That's racism and sexism.

First the racialism of an idea yet again -- BLACK COLLEGES would be forced to close. Not colleges. BLACK colleges. Yes lets single out BLACK colleges instead of all colleges that would be in the same position.

Se ord -- Private Good. Public Bad. Sounds like a GOP Conservative talking point....Oooo those awful public services. Everything should be privatized.

Thrd -- If there are valid aspects to his point, there are alternatives to such issues. Perhaps a portion of funding can be diverted to scholarships or partial scholarships or aid to private colleges to reduce tuition.


If Clinton, college may be made very slightly less unaffordable for a few perope, but otherwise we'll still have the same damn status quo, with college far too burdensome and inaccessible to many. And AA's will suffer along with everyone else.

Said the poster accusing another of "pulling the race card."

There may be legitimate objections to the possible impact on Sanders exact plan for funding universal access to public colleges on private colleges. They COULD be addressed once it gets into the slice and dice phase if proposed into Congress.

But saying Sanders is introducing a plan to hurt black colleges is pulling the race card.

It's ALSO conservative GOP spin about all public services. "Oh we can't have the government competing unfairly with private enterprise."

Attack John Lewis before the Nevada caucus, 70% plus or so of AA vote for Hillary.

Next on the hit list is Dolores Huerta, we will see how this outrage plays in Texas and elsewhere.

And now the newest target is James Clyburn SMH

Great strategy Bern fans...if you are trying to get Hillary the nomination anyway.

AttackAttackAttackAttack has been the strategy since day one for the bros and its what is going to bring your candidate down.

This strategy is alienating millions of people who have the same basic goals for racial and social justice.

But she'll need all the help she can get to fight the REAL racism and sexism of the GOP come November.

Short run smart, long run stupid.

They think its helping him to slander and abuse civil rights icons for some insane reason.

When Clyburn first endorsed Hillary and a couple of days after, I was disappointed, but thought he was at least being fair and a gentleman about it.

He could have stayed on the high road and stuck to the positive reasons he supported Clinton over Sanders.

But nooooooooo. He had to follow the Clinton playboopk and both racialize it, and go negative and distort what Sanders is trying to accomplish.

So yeah, he deserves to be criticized for that.

If a Democratic office holder or candidate is sympathetic to the goals of Third Way they should suffer the consequences. Consequences should include complete ostracism by the party.

See, I don't believe the Democratic Party should seek to become more like the Republican Party. But there has been a persistant element in the Democratic Party in recent decades that has betrayed the interests of working people by promoting trade deals, cutting the social safety net and promoting the privatization of public education. We are supposed to embrace this? That is pure insanity.

Maybe you can seriously address my concerns.

Wayers have proposed:

"We are proposing a Savings Plan for Universal Retirement account, the centerpiece of which is a 50-cent-per-hour minimum retirement contribution from all employers to virtually all employees. This is not what President George W. Bush proposed when he sought to privatize Social Security in 2005. Under our plan, Social Security remains as is, but every worker would also have his or her own private Individual Retirement Account, the way many white-collar workers do now.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/05/capitalize-workers/?module=BlogPost-ReadMore&version=Blog%20Main&action=Click&contentCollection=The%20Great%20Divide&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body&_r=0

If Social Security is not changed, and EVERY worker gets 50 cent per hour contributed to a pension plan at age 18, I don't see where there is a lot to complain about. But, I'm not surprised Sanders' supporters are complaining.

I don't know much about the Third Way otherwise, but I see little to complain about with this.

I believe Third Way also promoted the complete privatization of Social Security but have since backed off on that plan as it was so unpopular.

but there is nothing wrong with the idea of an employer adding 50 cents to an IRA type plan in addition to Social Security and any other retirement plan.

If the $0.50 is above and beyond that is something else entirely. Anything that undermines the foundation of Social Security is not a good idea.

The record kinda speaks for its self...............................and, who is backing him, one in particular, even though Boeing is now in South Carolina, how many are Union members-------------------------not one------------why do you think they went there-----------

Do you support Unions? Fair question don't you think?

And your attacks on the issue of free education about Sanders from Clyburn are what-------------, so you feel that FOR PROFIT is better than NON-PROFIT? Or is it something else, please tell us.......................

The above questions are either yes or no ------------------------


http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2016&cid=N00002408&type=I

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/pacs.php?cycle=2016&cid=N00002408&type=I

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cycle=2016&cid=N00002408&type=I

that stuck up for Black students when state universities wouldn't even look at their applications. I think there are ways to ensure they endure.

As to the Third Ways 50 cent contribution plan, leaving Social Security as it is, I can't see the grousing other than folks aren't looking any deeper, just accepting someone else's ill-informed opinion. There are lots of good ideas out there, even from places that make you scratch your head.

where did I EVER support for-profit education or bash public/non-profit education. You cannot show a single post - I have taught in public schools (middle-schools through graduate schools) and my wife is a retiree from public schools. I did not attack free education. I do not think he can get it passed. I would love to see it - have lived in 2 countries where it existed. But it will not happen under Bernie.

Yes I support unions. I have been a member of 2 different unions in my past.

You know - not everyone is going to support your candidate. Getting feelings hurt over that fact is not a good thing.

yeah, because she can work with people across the aisle..........................because she said so.

This election is about trust and facts.

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/02/21/latest-hillary-emails-show-her-private-support-for-trade-deals-she-publicly-opposed/

And just for the record I'm a pragmatists.....................

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pragmatism


Have a nice day. I will

BERNIE HATES HBCUs AND CLYBURN, TOO!!

Argle bargle glug glug glug blip blip

Y'all are SO admirable.

quite the contrary - I think he would be appalled by the posts from his "supporters".

Bernie and/or his supporters are damned if they do and damned if they don't..

Makes my blood boil.

Sanders supporters to stop criticizing him, he should stop saying things that are dubious and designed to obscure the truth.

regardless of whose feelings get hurt

When he stands up for issues that he cares about but he is wrong, lying or not telling the whole truth, you can't expect Sanders supporters to just sit down and shut up and that seems to be what Clyburn and Hillary's supporters are saying.

but . . . please feel free to bash and attack him as much as you like this week

We get to point out and the voters ( which includes the Sanders supporters) will decide.

you know, goose, gander.. that sort of thing?

certainly better than casting others under the bus

So now fighting against Wall St interest trying to PRIVATIZE Social Security makes me a BernieBro

If that is the case I'll wear the title proudly

Children - can we say PUMA

It starts with "P.U."

If Clyburn is doing dirty work for a dirty campaign, then he can be called out.

Once you sink that low, you lose whatever it was you spent your lifetime building up.

Sad, eh?

they need to be called out

I live in James Clyburn's district and he is becoming less and less popular. The only thing that keeps him in office is his very gerrymandered district ( look at up the map and you will see for yourself) If another democrat runs against him, I will be voting for that person.

I hope another Democrat runs against him, a real Democrat who champions the people.

Over the top, rude. I'm sick of us calling civil rights leaders liars and shills. Let's cut the crap, supporting the candidate he wants is not "dirty work". This poster is a long term troll who fights against democrats at every turn.

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Wow, the alerter called me a "long-term troll."

I guess by "fights against democrats" they mean that even though I worked my ass off for Obama, I can see right through the Hill.

Thanks to you and the others.

This is a fight for the soul of the Democratic party

by the machine. Minorities that support Bernie are fair game. Know the rules.

Someone was posting a long string of tweets about every single historical black college being closed if Sanders won the Presidency. They wouldn't tell me why they thought that, so I guessed maybe they were all Christian schools. But now I see that it's that Clyburn thinks they 'can't compete' if college is 'free'.

My rebuttal? First, we already have more people who would GO to 'free college' than we have colleges to go around. So every college would probably end up stuffed to the gills. So Clyburn's claim of 'Why would you go to X, if you can go to Y, fall kind of flat. Just because a school is free doesn't mean you'll get admitted to THAT school. They're not going to magically start taking all 50k people that start applying for 3k slots. And if he thinks it's because the HBCUs are not going to get in on a share of that 'freeness', you can be sure the 'voucher' people will be along shortly to demand that the private schools get subsidies for their students as well. There are plenty of mostly white private schools that will demand they not be cut out of the loop as well.

These guys are Clinton's attack dogs - as if the $Millions they have given her aren't enough


Hillary Clinton is the 3rd Way Candidate

Chance .

They march in lockstep.

gets into the White House.

And - we will read bullshit fawning explanations of why war and privatised Social Security and fracking and the TPP, to name a few things, are GOOD for us. Bill would charm his way through killing SNAP. IMO this country would be gleefully Thatcherized.

Lost on the Gambling Casino known as Wall St

Same for war. And fracking. And the TPP.

No votes from me for Third Wayers. My starting list is the membership of that New Democrat Coalition. The Third Way advises them, and they are well down the path of destroying what used to be the Democratic Party.

No to the warmongering neoliberal 3rd way and the warmongering neoliberal Republicans!

Lip Service don't pay the bills

I grew up in SC, and I've been an educator more than 40 years. I'm also a union member and lifelong Democrat.

Months ago, one reason (among many) that my union analysis favored Hillary was the problem with Bernie's college plan.

We could easily see that the FTT would be harmful to union and public employee retirement funds, and that the dollars didn't add up - but we also noted that Bernie's plan would be harmful to HBCUs!!!

I was in Charleston last week, and heard Clyburn and other AA leaders mention this important aspect of Bernie's platform. Instead of attacking the messenger, the OP needs to explain why Bernie is all about $s, but ignores the impact on social justice.

This is only ONE example of many where Hillary had a better platform - and in fact my union analysis had O'Malley and Biden (if he ran) ahead of Bernie on the plans that they espoused!! This is one reason that unions didn't go for Bernie.

Jim Clyburn is a great Democrat, and throwing him under the bus for making an informed decision doesn't make sense. Bernie is too stubborn and entrenched to realize he made mistakes and should change direction; or else he will not win the minority or union votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Clyburn

and I look at the facts. I grew up down here, and I worked for Gov. Riley (SC two terms; Clinton's Sec. of Ed.) for three years.

Anyone looking objectively at the candidates months ago would have caught this issue. That's why Hillary talks about expanding Pell Grants, refinancing, work-study, etc. instead of simply free tuition.

Bernie's plan was not well-thought out.

All Clyburn is doing is stating what many of us had figured out before educator unions endorsed Hillary.

I can see by your insertion of a Hillary ad in there that you're a big fan of hers.

Pretty clever of y'all to have this ready to go just before the SC primaries. Doesn't matter that its not true, right?

That's the way to campaign, yessiree. Just make stuff up, make it as ugly and damaging as you possibly can, and then let it roll.

Did any of Hill's Republican advisers think this one up? Brock, maybe?

If my candidate campaigned like that, I think I'd puke for a week.

But I can tell you've got a nice strong stomach there.

You're going to need it.

And as a union activist I pay attention to the union positions. As an ex-SC resident, I know my way around. I've been in a lot of those old Charleston churches and I personally know some of the SC politicians. I live in Florida now. Saturday I attended a union educators meeting in Tampa.

I didn't have any contact with Hillary's campaign. All I've done so far is donate and mail in my primary ballot here in Florida. (yes, we already have our ballots).

I don't think wikipedia is a Hillary ad. I've posted about Bernie and Hillary's plans for education many times on DU over the last few months. Nothing new to me.

These are old criticisms of Bernie's tuition plan. For example, as part of investigation of Bernie's FTT (Robin Hood tax) I have a bunch of information - we look for everything we can find that is useful:

gets in by application acceptance. Then Allen could accept the brightest students. I believe that for right now, families with money, are a significant factor, in who gets in.

Third way is for inequality and separation. So are it members.

Public universities have been, and would remain, the most popular choices for students trying to keep costs down. Entry will remain competitive.

Private universities will remain popular with students who want to enjoy the additional services and prestige (handshake, if you will) that a private university would provide, and will be willing to "foot the bill."

There will be no new rush from the latter to the former, and the latter will still require large amounts of federal and private financing in order to attend for many students.

Unfortunately, the core problem of Sanders' plan--free public education--won't change the dynamic of admissions in the US. Moreover, it won't change the overall spending and financing of education in both public and private universities. But Clyburn's assertion is silly.

The undocumented community also doesn't like the "free public tuition plan". Vermont, for example doesn't have tuition equity.

A dreamer who is undocumented can attend a public school all their life, but not be admitted to a public university or be able to take advantage of free tuition. Hillary mentioned this problem at the town hall in Nevada last week!! She gets it.

Bernie's plan is not only bad for social justice with AAs, but also dreamers!! And it's paid for by taxing the retirement benefits of public employees and unions; but the wealthy can still easily avoid the FTT!!

There's no way around it, Bernie's tuition plan is not good for minority and immigrants.

Admissions to the major public schools are already competitive. Ther e are plenty of parents who earn $150,000-500,000 per year will still often push there kids toward the UCs, the North Carolinas, the Michigans--all the major public universities--before the major private universities. Making public school free does not mean there will be more public schools or public schools will start allowing more students to enroll.

Free tuition will not make more modest public universities more attractive to those same families. At that point, they will choose private universities, either funding fully or accepting some form of financing.

ETA: And let me repeat, neither plan takes into account that colleges and universities are taking in far more than their operating costs because of public financing.

Looks like it.

Hopefully our POC friends wake up and smell the BS.

Third way doesn't give a damn about their families, and never has. And never will.

Third Way = Shoving Republican Ideas Into The Democratic Party. We all lose.

Clyburn is popular. You mean he is good at selling shit. Doesn't make him a person who supports his constituents. Just another pretender. Just like his boss.

Would be diverted to increasing funding to those on the bottom of the SS current funding. Sanders, Hillary and the Third Way proposes to increase the FICA taxes on incomes over $250,000. The privatizing was a GOP offering.

Raising the cap on the taxable income is the way to go.

Recipients getting increases? Not progressive.

They want to cut benefits to balance the budget

demands bargaining with a Party that doesn't bargain in good faith. The President tried it for six years and every time he reached across the aisle he pulled back a bloody stump.
The name of the game is getting out the base, and that requires standing for the principles that have been the Democratic Party's foundation since FDR defeated fascism.

I think he has proven himself to be a valuable representative for Democratic principles in Congress. Let's not tear this good man down because he endorsed a Democrat.

it's the way they do it, is what bothers me. Their endorsement always comes with a half truth directed at Bernie.

Z

James Cyburn has a valid concern.


February 21, 2016, 02:04 pm

Clyburn: Sanders’s plan would kill black colleges

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/270214-clyburn-sanderss-plan-would-kill-black-colleges

By Bradford Richardson


Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Sunday that Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders’s plan to make public colleges tuition-free would have a deleterious effect on private, historically black colleges and universities (HBCU).

The third-ranking Democrat in the House — who has endorsed Sanders’s primary rival, Hillary Clinton — said such colleges would not be able to compete under the Vermont senator’s plan.

“You’ve got to think about the consequences of things,” Clyburn said in an interview with BuzzFeed News. “[If] you start handing out two years of free college at public institutions are you ready for all the black, private HBCUs to close down? That’s what’s going to happen.

“Tougaloo College in Mississippi will be closed if you can go to Jackson State for free,” he added.

........................................

He's just doing his Third Way attack dog routine. Nobody is above criticism when they're wrong. And by propagating this untruth, he's doing more damage to his AA constituents. With free college, which is the rest of the civilized worlds standard, more AA would be able to attend college, and attain a better life, and raise their standard of living.

This is a red herring. A good friend of mine founded free public kindergarten in New Hampshire years ago, and thats the exact argument her opponents used to try to kill it. That it would destroy private kindergartens. Today they still exist side by side, and everyone, not just the rich, get the advantage of early education.

After that, she was elected to the School Board, Alderman, and State Legislature. After she moved to Florida, she ran for State Senate, against one of he most corrupt incumbents in Florida. But, she got zero support from the DLC, New Dem, Third Way assholes running the Florida Democratic Party.

Private Good. Public Bad. Private Good. Public Bad.

Helping people bad. Fend for yourselves good. Helping peope bad, fend for yourselves good.

Conservative good. Liberalism bad.

Why should I give a fuck about that?

2. The two articles you linked to do absolutely nothing to address Clyburn's concern that Bernie's plan would kill HBCUs.

Try again.

Know whom you are supporting.

And they have worked to undermine Democratic principles ever since

but could be remembering it wrong. I recently ran across an interesting site that reviews a book by From, The New Democrats and the Return to Power.

I bookmarked it but the URL appears funny in the browser area. If you copy & paste it, it should work.

https://medium.com/@matthewstoller/its-al-froms-democratic-party-we-just-live-here-5d0de7f89c3e#.2a6aolb3d

The review was written in Nov. 2014. It's an interesting read. For instance,

Really, what next?

That overwhelmingly targets AA.

.. has been co-opted by moderate conservative Republicans
who now call themselves progressives.

The Third Way is definitely part of this trend.

Liberals just can't gain enough traction while this group has
power, and that also includes DWS and the DNC.

and go for the "free stuff"?

to Sanders' plan that apparently does not give a damn. After reading Clinton's plan for public and private HBCUs, I agree with Clyburn.

nt