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cali

(114,904 posts)
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:14 PM Feb 2016

Bernie has a better, more respectful civil rights record than Hillary.

Forget his early activism and his record in Congress. It's what he hasn't done- and what she has.

Bernie has never used racist pig dog whistles. Hillary has. And not just her campaign and surrogates. Hillary personally appealed to hardworking white Americans. That is a loud and ugly dog whistle, amplified by the fact that dog whistling hill was running against a black man.

Bernie has never called black kids super predators. Hill did. And yeah, that sure as shit was who she was referring to.

He has never told activists that if they don't like what he has to say on their issues, he'll only talk to white people. Hillary did.

He has never take money from the for profit prison asswipes. Hill has. And only stopped when called on it.


That's just fact. And if it doesn't resonate in the AA community, then it doesn't, but:

Dog whistling politicians are reprehensible. Hillary was in deep with that crap.

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie has a better, more respectful civil rights record than Hillary. (Original Post) cali Feb 2016 OP
Super-predator theory was racist pseudo science Cheese Sandwich Feb 2016 #1
Super quick link collection and formatting there. onehandle Feb 2016 #7
So are you defending the debunked racist pseudo-science "super-predator" theory? Cheese Sandwich Feb 2016 #9
the Third Wayers were all Bell Curvers MisterP Feb 2016 #26
I think Hillary got detention in 10th grade for popping gum in English class, one_voice Feb 2016 #29
Racist pig dog whistles are trending on Amazon.com. nt onehandle Feb 2016 #2
Yet the ultimate arbiters disagree with you at the polls. eom Hoyt Feb 2016 #3
Doesn't Bernie lead in the popular vote at this time? panader0 Feb 2016 #6
Doesn't change the facts. cali Feb 2016 #11
I think it does, but I am sure the people that matter appreciate your admonishment. Hoyt Feb 2016 #13
That is irrelevant Hoyt. What conjure in your head has fuck all cali Feb 2016 #18
Again, the ultimate arbiters disagree with you. Hoyt Feb 2016 #21
You think that people can vote to change facts? That's an unusual position el_bryanto Feb 2016 #25
I guess I will have to be more direct for you to get it. I trust Blacks and other minorities to Hoyt Feb 2016 #28
The facts don't matter? What did he say that was inaccurate? Or untruthful? el_bryanto Feb 2016 #31
The facts are debatable. I'll trust those directly affected to judge the facts, not the OP or you. Hoyt Feb 2016 #32
The whole point to facts is that they aren't debatable. Right? That's why they are called facts.nt el_bryanto Feb 2016 #33
Opinion is not fact. Say median income is $50,000.That's a fact. People making a lot less, probably Hoyt Feb 2016 #34
Bandwagon fallacy RufusTFirefly Feb 2016 #16
People who know, know. People who don't want to know won't even read this. thereismore Feb 2016 #4
Dr. Cornel West was on the tube (CNN) this morning. panader0 Feb 2016 #5
Why do you suppose Sanders isn't resonating with the AA community? As a whole I mean ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #8
IMO, fear. jeff47 Feb 2016 #10
These is a discussion in the AA forum on why Sanders isn't doing as well as expected ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #15
An economic justice platform designed to only resonate with the historically oppressed jeff47 Feb 2016 #17
Agreed ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #20
The way to assure a lack of economic justice is to divide us by race and not treat us as a whole Dragonfli Feb 2016 #23
What you cited is not a "civil rights record." It's speech. A record invokes work and Jitter65 Feb 2016 #12
That's absurd. Speech damn well is part of the record. cali Feb 2016 #14
He is the candidate who has never spoken against the equal rights of anyone. She most certainly has. Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #19
Bernie has been consistent, the Clinton record is what it is. Her campaign began Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #22
Hillary. Her name is Hillary. MineralMan Feb 2016 #24
No. I don't have respect for people who are corrupt. Or who are arrogant enough cali Feb 2016 #27
It's up to you, of course. MineralMan Feb 2016 #35
Do you remember her dreaming out loud about Obama being assassinated? Barack_America Feb 2016 #30
 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
1. Super-predator theory was racist pseudo science
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:16 PM
Feb 2016



For example Michelle Alexander has said
In her support for the 1994 crime bill, for example, she used racially coded rhetoric to cast black children as animals. “They are not just gangs of kids anymore,” she said. “They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel.”
source

And Ta-Nahesi Coates has said
Since the days of slavery, into the days of super-predators, and now the time of the Knockout Game, there has always been a strong need to believe that hordes of young black men will overrun the country in a fit of raping and pillaging. It's how we justify ourselves. Information can't compete with national myth.
source

Ben Jealous has said
The superpredator idea was this notion that a child at age six months could be such a sociopath as to be beyond redemption. And it’s a violation of theology, it’s a violation of basic psychology. It was never used, as far as I know, to describe anyone white. It was always used sort of to describe young black men as a mass. And it made life very tough for us. And it helped push in bills, quite frankly, that have led to the biggest spike in the incarceration of women that we have seen—of, typically, black women.
source

"As Ex-Theorist on Young 'Superpredators,' Bush Aide Has Regrets"
February 9, 2001

PHILADELPHIA, Feb. 8— From his perch as the director of the new White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, which he believes will help uplift many needy people but particularly the most troubled teenagers, John J. DiIulio Jr. conceded today that he wished he had never become the 1990's intellectual pillar for putting violent juveniles in prison and condemning them as ''superpredators.''

''If I knew then what I know now, I would have shouted for prevention of crimes,'' Mr. DiIulio said during an interview in the clubby University of Pennsylvania office that he is temporarily vacating to join the White House staff.

Instead, five years ago, Mr. DiIulio created a whole theory around the notion that ''a new generation of street criminals is upon us -- the youngest, biggest and baddest generation any society has ever known.''

''Based on all that we have witnessed, researched and heard from people who are close to the action,'' he wrote with two co-authors, ''here is what we believe: America is now home to thickening ranks of juvenile 'superpredators' -- radically impulsive, brutally remorseless youngsters, including ever more preteenage boys, who murder, assault, rape, rob, burglarize, deal deadly drugs, join gun-toting gangs and create serious communal disorders.''
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/09/us/as-ex-theorist-on-young-superpredators-bush-aide-has-regrets.html

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
29. I think Hillary got detention in 10th grade for popping gum in English class,
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:14 PM
Feb 2016

add that to your OP. That shows a total disrespect for authority.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
18. That is irrelevant Hoyt. What conjure in your head has fuck all
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:46 PM
Feb 2016

to do with facts and the record. What people do with those facts is another matter.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
25. You think that people can vote to change facts? That's an unusual position
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:00 PM
Feb 2016

So in Texas, the history books, approved by democratically elected state school boards, really are accurate? Even if they disagree with actual historical scholarship?

Well to each their own.

Bryant

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
28. I guess I will have to be more direct for you to get it. I trust Blacks and other minorities to
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:10 PM
Feb 2016

decide how they feel. What the OP says/believes, really doesn't matter, does it?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
32. The facts are debatable. I'll trust those directly affected to judge the facts, not the OP or you.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:46 PM
Feb 2016

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
33. The whole point to facts is that they aren't debatable. Right? That's why they are called facts.nt
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:48 PM
Feb 2016
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
34. Opinion is not fact. Say median income is $50,000.That's a fact. People making a lot less, probably
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:08 PM
Feb 2016

think it's a good income. People making more, not so much.

In politics, there are few facts. You guys think Sanders is the best on Civil Rights. Yet a clear majority of those most affected by civil rights, in the best position to gauge, disagree with you. That's a fact too.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
16. Bandwagon fallacy
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:40 PM
Feb 2016

Unfortunately, there are many things Americans believe that are at odds with the facts.

When it comes to facts, the majority doesn't rule.

The encouraging news, however, is that our fellow citizens have demonstrated a capacity to sync up their opinions with reality once they receive reliable information.

thereismore

(13,326 posts)
4. People who know, know. People who don't want to know won't even read this.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:18 PM
Feb 2016

We've reached saturation at DU. The question is, how can Sanders get the message outside of DU. The media aren't exactly helping. It's the new media and social networks. Forget DU.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
5. Dr. Cornel West was on the tube (CNN) this morning.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:20 PM
Feb 2016

He jumped on the "super predator" quote. He was quite good and I was glad to see him
getting some exposure before the SC primary. I believe that when more POC hear Bernie,
learn about both Bernie and Hillary, they will switch over. I truly puzzles me that Hillary has
the majority of the POC vote. Bernie is by far the better civil rights candidate.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
8. Why do you suppose Sanders isn't resonating with the AA community? As a whole I mean
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:23 PM
Feb 2016

He certainly has some AA support.

Curious.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. IMO, fear.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:29 PM
Feb 2016

Fear that he'd lose the general.

Fear that they'd be left out of the economic reforms - that this is just the latest "40 acres and a mule".

With Clinton, they know specifically how they will be screwed. With Sanders, there could be a big upside, but there also could be a big downside. And far too many of our party have delivered "downside".

But I'm on the outside peering in.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
15. These is a discussion in the AA forum on why Sanders isn't doing as well as expected
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:39 PM
Feb 2016

My personal thought is that it has to do with white blindness to AA history. Human beings tend to think our experiences re the same i.e., The experience or being working class and black is the same as being working class and white, when that is simply untrue.

The Sanders economic justice platform was almost destined to NOT resonate with the historically oppressed, because it makes the same assumption.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
17. An economic justice platform designed to only resonate with the historically oppressed
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:46 PM
Feb 2016

won't work either.

People seeking wealth and power have used racism and economic oppression to gain and maintain that control. When people seek economic justice, those in power ramp up the racism. When people seek social justice, those in power ramp up the economic oppression.

So an economic plan that only helps the historically oppressed gets killed via racism.

We have to tackle both economic justice and social justice, and we have to tackle them at the same time. Or the forces aligned against us will continue to use the opposite issue to derail reform.

With there being so many cases where economic reform was limited by racial lines, the skepticism is completely understandable. That skepticism is what we'll have to overcome, and most importantly, we have to actually deliver.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
20. Agreed
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:58 PM
Feb 2016

Although I'm a strong Hill supporter, the person running who seemed to "get" this the best was O'Malley. To address racism, we need to hold social justice just high as we do economic justice, and address the results of historical oppression and at least attempt to root out institutional racism.
Of all the things that bother me about this primary, the lack of historically correct context in all areas is number one.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
23. The way to assure a lack of economic justice is to divide us by race and not treat us as a whole
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:18 PM
Feb 2016

That is why politicians against economic equality and social equality want us divided. One in particular is using this tactic quite successfully.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280123066

I think the OP listed above is worth a read.

Bernie is planning on economic growth and overall equality for ALL citizens regardless of isms, that is why I like his plans, historically the divides, race culture, religion, sex, etc. are what's used to keep us poor and those that wold divide us along those lines do so for one reason, so we do not find our common strength and rise up against the true common enemy.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
12. What you cited is not a "civil rights record." It's speech. A record invokes work and
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:31 PM
Feb 2016

accomplishments.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
19. He is the candidate who has never spoken against the equal rights of anyone. She most certainly has.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:49 PM
Feb 2016

The people who push her as some civil rights leader are people who very obviously do not count LGBT rights as civil rights. Many, many of her endorsers in this Party have been strong opponents of civil rights for LGBT. Many of them have voted to deny equal rights to us, repeatedly. Many of her endorsers were proudly standing with her as the last holdouts opposing LGBT civil rights.

Hillary was not the only dog whistler on her team in 08. Many of those same people are pulling the same crap on Bernie, and lots of it is still about him being 'the other'.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
22. Bernie has been consistent, the Clinton record is what it is. Her campaign began
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:23 PM
Feb 2016

with the lion share of support. Bernie was not likely to run for POTUS had another
progressive had...he plays catch up. If you have the WH in your sights you don't
wait until you're 74 years old. Why she clings to Obama when convenient is to invoke
a distrust and a disrespect that Bernie had to Obama, to try and portray him against the
man versus the policies. In reality, Conyers and many other Democrats have called
out Obama..not just on TPP, but early on, about health care, Guantanamo, etc.
As president he does not appreciate that, duh...no president does.

To his credit, Obama discredited Clinton on that score yet it is obvious
who he prefers to take his place..and it is of no credit to her campaign
that he came out early with an unofficial endorsement, not once but
twice. I can speculate he prefers her due to TPP for the most part, even
though she claims it is imperfect at this late date.

I do think Sanders should go into heavily Clinton favored districts and
ask them, what do you think of the claims Hillary has said about me
and Obama...what do you understand about the primary statements
I made in the past. If he is not going to get their votes, they should
at least hear from him in a direct way what his objections were instead
of hearing it from that fucker, Brock.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
24. Hillary. Her name is Hillary.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:57 PM
Feb 2016

It's not Hill or hill. Please give her that much respect. Thank you.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
27. No. I don't have respect for people who are corrupt. Or who are arrogant enough
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:09 PM
Feb 2016

to pile up on my face conflicts of interest.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
30. Do you remember her dreaming out loud about Obama being assassinated?
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:19 PM
Feb 2016

Jame Clyburn apparently doesn't, but that's when she died to me as a human being worthy of respect.

"It was against that backdrop that Mrs. Clinton’s mentioning the Kennedy assassination in the same breath as her own political fate struck some as going too far. Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, an uncommitted superdelegate, said through a spokeswoman that the comments were “beyond the pale.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/us/politics/24clinton.html?_r=0

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