suggesting Hillary's really like the "Republicans"? She is a moderate progressive liberal Democrat, and this behavior is disgusting.

Personally, I'd just as soon all who feel this way go find a Republican forum and trash Democrats from there, as some no doubt will do after the primary anyway.

or, like most Hillary supporters, will you settle for a pure Ad Hominem Logical Fallacy and call that "Good Enough for Hillary"?

That is because Hillary's ideology is vastly different from that of today's Republican Party both theoretically and in practice.

If you became interested in understanding who she really is, unlikely as that may be, you would be able to post from an almost endless list of professionals who have studied her lengthy and intensely documented record.

Since I don't expect you to, here's a quickie I grabbed off the top of a google for anyone who cares about the links between honesty and morality, truth and knowledge:

You can not dispute anything I posted in the OP,
but instead posted a worthless, meandering Word Salad hoping to confuse the less intelligent Hillary supporters.
Thanks for playing.
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Come back when you can find (or invent) definitive support for ANY of your positions that contradict what I posted.
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Of course, you can always ALERT and hope for a Hillary jury.

I had no expectation whatsoever of changing your mind.

Since you're writing, though, here's a suggestion for you and anyone who believes what you wrote: Examine any one of the items on your list for the DIFFERENCES between Hillary's policy or action in the past and those of the GOP. It would be enlightening.

Otherwise, my response, bvar, is that I will leave you to jump over your spinning hoops yourself.

People who indulge themselves in lies can never be wise or knowledgeable and are only right rarely and by accident.

I understand you are angry. It hurts to see the truth laid out naked like I did in the OP.

Go ahead. Take a shot. I can support every single one of my claims.
I have video for most of them.

So instead of disjointed, meandering baseless attacks on me,
let have a discussion of the policies.

MmKay?

I'm a Liberal, I usually vote a straight Dem ticket, I found this video to be enlightening.

https://www.facebook.com/sfraine/videos/1098295776868843/

She only chooses the liberal path when the political winds blow in that direction. She has a very "tenuous" relationship with the truth.

--you say.

And you don't see why they WOULD!????

Why not educate yourself? Insight is literally seconds away.

Google: Hillary Clinton plus each of those words separately and in combinations. Then look for honorable knowledge sites, being careful to weed out the propaganda sites. Those are only for people wanting to be lied to.

But for a kickstart, here's Stanford University's Crowdpac evaluation of all the candidates. Zero is considered "centrist" ideologically. It does not conform to the middle of the populace.



Can't be anything like correct, could it? It makes sense to those who understand that the today's right has moved far right compared to what it once was.

Here's a picture drawn from from the Washington Post from a very different approach, one based on who people follow. But, same general results.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

in 2013 as part of an article on domestic surveillance. Those dots on the left are Democratic representatives most here imagine are Republican in all but name. Bernie wasn't mentioned back in 2013, but he's an "outsider," so he's likely to be that blue dot at the bottom.

In general, those politicians who rate as insurgents or outsiders are on the wings of the liberal-conservative scale. The Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street and Ron Paul movements probably all fit into the outsider or insurgent category, for example, even though they inhabit vastly different spaces on the traditional left-right political spectrum.

?w=575
Conversely, moderates in both parties tend to score as establishment politicians. There aren’t very many “radical centrist” members of Congress who offer a pronounced critique of the status quo while also coming down somewhere in the middle on most policy issues.

Is that better?

a good dose of it!

It's day and night, but some don't see it because it's her turn.

The plane that we're flying is crashing and we have to jump. Electing a republican is like jumping with bricks in our pockets. Accepting Hillary is basically the same as exiting the plane with a hand-full of party balloons, definitely not as bad as bricks, but unlikely to be much help. Now if we manage to elect Bernie, that would be the same as leaving the plane with a parachute in our hands. We're not wearing it properly and we haven't been trained in it's use, but a way to save ourselves would be in our hands.

Then call out the people who are standing in their way.

That will change over Congress and win hearts and minds along the way.

Offer them nothing and it's business as usual.

It's perfect!

.

And, brother, we need change and we need it now.

the ground is coming up real fast.

Hillary is The Democrat (tm). Sanders is democratic. The Democrats seem to be all about party which forgetting why people care about party - that the different parties have different philosophies of governing. Too many here support The Democrat just because of the label, not caring about the issues or how The Democrat will govern.

whether she would be a good first President or not. There is a difference! I would want the first woman President to be a great President, not some corrupt, vacillating weather vane.

I would rather have a President represent the people, regardless of whether they were a Democrat or an Independant, rather than pick a crappy Democrat because he/she has always been a Democrat. There are no Republicans that are for the people so that is moot!

Wasn't she a republican at some point? So she wasn't "always a democrat," which I actually don't hold against her. That she is a republican now, I do.

Rec

to divide us and only give government representation to those who serve them. This has been going on for so many decades few people can identify who or what they are. Cram us all into one party, ruin the other, sit back and watch us argue over who is most true to the party when in reality it needs to be divided to reflect the spectrum within. Then everyone can have dignified representation directly, and more would get done without all this infighting. The infighting is because we are being forced together while our ideals simply do not match.

…line about the bogus Free Market.

. . . and was rather taken aback by a response I received from a friend -- a Bernie supporter, no less -- taking me to task for putting Hillary supporters "on the defensive" with "dubious rhetoric. (Although supporting Bernie, she has completely bought into the validity of the "BernieBros" narrative.) It was this graphic:



I pointed out to her that these are all positions Hillary is on record supporting -- troubling as they indeed are. I said that it wasn't about putting Hillary supporters on the defensive, but about (hopefully) getting at least some of them to ask some honest questions of themselves about what they think their candidate stands for. And, I added, if there is some explanatory context for any or all of these positions that makes them less troubling, I'd very much love to hear it!

We're in a sorry state indeed if a candidate's own stated positions are now to be regarded as "dubious rhetoric!"

Everything I post here is "borrowed" from one source or another.

. . . I shared it (I forget whether I saw it here or on Jackpine Radicals).

Thanks once again, bvar22. Your posts are always worth reading.


~BERNIE~

Kicking It High!!

That's like a sledge hammer of truth. (I never, ever had a nanometer of doubt).

My Price is low: $0.
Feel free to use it anywhere.
The more widely spread, the happier I will be.

Great post!

Please, proceed.

...or so, I'll get back to you about this. Deal?

You, the OP, and all those others clamoring for "what" know full well which are true and which are not.

It's not working. What's the old saying? Put up or .....................

(Paraphrasing)

And regardless if these dozen or so requests you made of Cali (who is she , your employee that needs to send you files by tomorrow morning or else?), you cannot dispute ONE, ONE ONE bullet point.

That tells me volumes about you, and the person you support. And when Hillary gets her war with Iran and/or Syria, the one that Vlad has said could be WW3, we will not let people like you be so slick.

Iraq for profits for the 1%. The deaths of hundreds of thousands were collateral damage. But you must be able to overlook that. Maybe because they were Iraqi's. But how can you overlook the thousands of American lives that were devastated by that "mistake"? You apparently can rationalize the sick war profits that the Wealth 1% have made from the war and forgive Bush and Clinton. I never will. Children killed by cluster bombs and land mines and phosphorous shells. And the DU (depleted uranium) that covers the country will give for generations, give cancer that is.

We have a chance to vote for honesty. Why do you reject that? Why do you side with Goldman-Sachs that wants to continue to loot the 99%. Serious question, why do you support those that have ruined this country.

...

but "friendship" with Kissinger is not a policy, and I limited the OP to policies and positions.

However, they DO make a cute couple.

sure Collin Powell might be a democrat but he's still a Conservadem to me. to me Democrats are Liberal. Sometimes they are needed sometimes they are not. Right now because of the supreme court they are very much needed. We don't need to swing the court hard right.

I'm sure it could be lengthened, but these are all key differences.

what bvar said!

I think Susan Sarandon explained very succinctly why HRC supporters are voting against their best interests.

Not a lot of Hillary supporter posts. I wonder why?

Because....

If it smells like a republican, acts like a republican, plans like a republican, hangs out with republicans, but calls themselves a democrat - it's probably not a Democrat.

I'm too tired to respond to them one by one. But really, most of the content in the OP is the result of either serious dishonesty or very serious misunderstanding. Just a few examples: Bernie did not consistently support gay rights over the last 40 years; Hillary and Bernie both support universal healthcare (they just differ on exactly how to achieve it), while Republicans do not; Hillary has stood up to the gun lobby, Bernie and the Republicans serve their interests. Etc., etc.


How are we supposed to take you seriously if this is the quality of your argumentation?

At one point in the wake of the whole debate over civil unions, he said it was not the right time to pursue marriage. He didn't oppose it. He just said politically the country was not politically ready for the next step YET.

Universal health care is a nothing term that has no meaning. Only the specifics. A plan to provide public social insurance based on income is the only way to provide it. Hillary has thrown cold water on that idea.

That also is why I am a Democrat and voting for a Democrat....Bernie!

The republicans never had a soul. Hillary sold her soul. At this point what difference does it make? Those points above make me think she's just an undercover republican, she definitely agrees with them. A lot. Just as OP said.

S & W 2016

That Bernie Sanders is a rotten hypocrite and THANK GOD he WILL N-O-T be the Democratic nominee.

He ain't even a real Democrat.

I don't know for sure that he really is an independent who became a Democrat. I think he may be a Republican plant.

Yes, he was elected to Congress more than 20 years ago — but that was only because he wanted to wait until age 74/75 to run for president of the United States and, while doing that, labor hard to sabotage the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton.

Now I do agree with Bernie on policies. But, Bernie is a single-issue candidate—like “Citizens United,” single payer, and free college tuition. Horrible! And he would lose the general election like George McGovern did, in 1972, when he couldn't even carry Hawaii. Bernie might not even be able to win District of Columbia. But, hey, as much as his policies are excellent … Bernie is not a Democrat. He is not a real Democrat like my Third Way/DLC Democratic Party of Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama.

So THANK GOD Bernie Sanders WILL N-O-T be the nominee.

Now, after Hillary — who couldn't reach 20 percent of the 18–29 vote in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada — wins this nomination, all you Bernie Sanders supporters better get yourselves in line with us Hillary Clinton supporters — and HILLARY … WILL … BE … THE … N-O-M-I-N-E-E — and make sure you vote for president Hillary Clinton this November.

If you fail to do this, you will be the people who cost her this election, if she doesn't win, and Y-O-U will have doomed us all with the Republican Supreme Court and President Donald Trump.

Do your duty, all you Bernie supporters, and make damn sure you vote for my Hillary!

Thank you!

And we'll talk again come the 2018 midterms.

"Now, after Hillary — who couldn't reach 20 percent of the 18–29 vote in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada — wins this nomination, all you Bernie Sanders supporters better get yourselves in line with us Hillary Clinton supporters — and HILLARY … WILL … BE … THE … N-O-M-I-N-E-E — and make sure you vote for president Hillary Clinton this November. "

If you sold burgers like you do your candidate, no one would come.

"Do your duty, all you Bernie supporters, and make damn sure you vote for my Hillary! "

Savor the fact she is YOUR Hillary, cuss at people, and then invoke Duty. That means you think of people who disagree with you as people to be ordered about.

Hillary has brought out the ugly authoritarian side of this party, people who have gotten an ego high because Hillary has sold them on the idea she cares about them They cannot take responsibility, thinking they had no blame for the fact that Hillary lost, or that ther GOP has been eating congress, thinks to good old Debbie "GOP are my friends" Schultz.

Fear not, I will vote for Hillary, and I know that is all the self dehumanized fanatics want, but I will do it for one reason, so that when she starts WWIII in the mid east, and when she gives her patron, Llyod Blankfein, Social Security on a silver platter, I will laugh. And then know that you will "talk again after the 2018 midterms, you know, the elections Debbie has been losing three straight times. Not that Hillary really wants a democratic congress, they might have to pay promises then.

I almost put you on ignore!
Great job of satire. You depicted the arrogance I see around here quite well.

Why, oh why, in the FUCK are you voting Hilary as a democratic voter again?

Great Post

Last edited Tue Feb 23, 2016, 05:56 AM - Edit history (1)

*Sanders rejects the friendship, advice and policies of Henry Kissinger. Hillary and the Republicans did not.
*Sanders donates paid speaking fees to charity. Hillary and the Republicans do not.

And Sanders is alone in one of them.

and hold their chosen candidate to these ideals.
What are we if not a party of principles?

Wonder why she didn't just run as an outright Republican.
No need for the pretense running in a Democrat mask.

Purging the Clintons from this party will ensure that it has strength for the future.
Third Way is DEAD.

Bernie Sanders will revitalize this political machine.
Using the coalition Obama put together in 2008 he will take this party to the FUTURE.

John Lucas

and corrected the first line and saved to share for all!

Sanders has supported gay rights since 40 years ago

I changed it to
Sanders has supported gay rights for 40 years.

- climate change is not "our nation's biggest threat".

"The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great moral issue of our time, it is the great economic issue of our time, and it is the great political issue of our time." - Sanders website

- Sanders does not promise to "break up the biggest banks"
The issue is not mentioned or listed among his priorities on his website.

- Sanders has been not a supporter of gay rights for 40 years.
from Slate: "...as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont." and he voted for DOMA because of his support for state's rights, not gay equality.

- "Sanders marched with the Civil Rights Movement 40 years ago. Hillary and the Republicans did not"
True but Misleading: Clinton didn't march with the movement. But starting around 1966, when she listened to MLK speak and met him afterwards, she strongly supported the civil rights movement. According to PBS, "As president of the student government at Wellesley, Hillary became an activist committed to working within the system. Seeking to ward off violence in the wake of King's assassination, she helped organize a disciplined two-day strike on campus and worked as a liaison to channel constructive dialogue and meaningful action...As a student at Yale Law School, Hillary...worked at the Yale Child Study Center, took on cases of child abuse, volunteered at New Haven Legal Services, and researched the problems of migrant workers for Walter Mondale's Subcommittee on Migrant Labor." Civil rights across the board!

- "Sanders refrains from waging personal attacks for political gains. Hillary and The Republicans do not."
False: Both candidates are criticizing each other on their policies, not their character. For example, Bernie attacks Clinton for taking money from large donors, and Clinton attacks Sanders for proposing programs but not giving a clear picture of whether raising taxes on the wealthy will be sufficient to pay for them.

I am angry and ashamed at posters who are giving Repubs ammo for the election. I hope these same posters will be happy when President Cruz is elected. Shame.

that isn't factual. Listing facts isn't bashing. But maybe you already know that.

Hillary is her own worst enemy, not the posters on this thread.

We can't help it if she is a center-right corporatist and she and her supporters will be to blame if she gets the nom and loses the general.

.

For getting to the meat of an issue. Thank you for putting this very important list together.

What the hell.

I was curious who kept punting this old OP back to the top of page.