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ericson00

(2,707 posts)
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:57 PM Feb 2016

Bernie Wanted to Abolish the CIA, which helps keep us safe? No how, no way

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-cia-219451

One big difference between then and now: Forty years ago, Sanders didn’t just complain about CIA interventions abroad; he called for abolishing the spy agency altogether.
The CIA is “a dangerous institution that has got to go,” Sanders told an audience in Vermont in October 1974.



not fit to lead and protect this great country
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Bernie Wanted to Abolish the CIA, which helps keep us safe? No how, no way (Original Post) ericson00 Feb 2016 OP
Unrec G_j Feb 2016 #1
CIA, which helps keep us safe? Get real. Xipe Totec Feb 2016 #2
Exactly; the CIA has kept us UN-SAFE! Working hand in hand currently with the Saudis and amborin Feb 2016 #18
You sound like a Republican. Broward Feb 2016 #3
Hillary supporter is pro spying, anti tax, pro war, pro Kissenger? Suprising! LondonReign2 Feb 2016 #57
Yep, a lot of cleaning up to do in our own house. Broward Feb 2016 #68
That was verbatim what I thought. JudyM Feb 2016 #69
As do LWolf Feb 2016 #77
lol Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #4
So did JFK, but we all know how that worked out. 7wo7rees Feb 2016 #5
You sound like someone that would write this: cpwm17 Feb 2016 #6
Yeah that was a real wtf moment. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #9
Wow, what kind of a dangerously confused person would write that? demwing Feb 2016 #75
Given the CIA's history, Bernie's correct on this issue PghTiny Feb 2016 #7
Are you lost? beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #8
Frightening. (See what happens when people start to pay attention??) NurseJackie Feb 2016 #10
Frightening are those who do not research. Wilms Feb 2016 #20
Brockenstein -- "But we're just vetting Bernie" Sounding more Nixonian every day. Armstead Feb 2016 #11
Did he propose that or not? treestar Feb 2016 #44
In 1974 Armstead Feb 2016 #46
I don't think it condones any bad acts treestar Feb 2016 #66
He wouldn't say shut down all the legitimate roles now Armstead Feb 2016 #71
The CIA is responsible for creating FAR more problems for us in the world . . . markpkessinger Feb 2016 #12
I'll leave this here - IDemo Feb 2016 #13
Well, that sounds Republicany cyberswede Feb 2016 #14
I'm with Bernie (nt) bigwillq Feb 2016 #15
When you posted that... BeanMusical Mar 2016 #83
Cmon 40 years ago? I bet you had hair then. snowy owl Feb 2016 #16
You poor sap. PeteSelman Feb 2016 #17
You should do a little research cyberswede Feb 2016 #19
It's a topic worthy of discussion. randome Feb 2016 #21
Not one single rec! Speaks volumes! 7wo7rees Feb 2016 #22
A Timeline of CIA Atrocities baran Feb 2016 #23
FFS this is stupid. Fearless Feb 2016 #24
CIA CIA CIA Change has come Feb 2016 #25
That is funny... run with that awhile... thanks berniepdx420 Feb 2016 #26
Someone actually rec'd it, too. SMH merrily Feb 2016 #28
4 recs. But look who they are. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #40
These just keep getting funnier. P.S. President Truman called for abolishing it, too--and he's the merrily Feb 2016 #27
I'm gonna keep kicking this up to the top. Unbelievable. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #41
Since its inception the criminal organization known as the CIA has been... JackRiddler Feb 2016 #29
So... MrWendel Feb 2016 #30
President Kennedy said he wanted to make the CIA accountable to the Commander In Chief. nt CdnExtraNational Feb 2016 #31
Great... MrWendel Feb 2016 #36
Oh god you folks are so funny in your ignorance. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #32
Wow EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #33
They sure kept JFK safe in Dallas. nt villager Feb 2016 #34
While I'd stop short of literally abolishing the CIA Recursion Feb 2016 #35
How 6 Million People Were Killed In CIA Secret Wars Against Third World Countries PonyUp Feb 2016 #37
The CIA keeps us safe? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #38
4 recs? Do some research. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #39
Would that be the institution that gives the government a bad name by spying on us and instigating Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #42
I think it is DU Canon that the CIA is evil treestar Feb 2016 #43
Okay, defend Iran, Cuba (regardless of how you feel about Castro)... forjusticethunders Feb 2016 #47
You are focusing only on the bad treestar Feb 2016 #63
So just because an entity does non-evil stuff we should ignore the evil stuff? forjusticethunders Feb 2016 #64
So we have perspective treestar Feb 2016 #65
No. Just the leadership like Allen Dulles and John McCone... Octafish Feb 2016 #48
I'll show you who's ''not fit to lead and protect this great country.'' Octafish Feb 2016 #45
I highly recommend Hillary Clinton's campaign to run with this during the myrna minx Feb 2016 #49
CIA! CIA! CIA! Maybe they can say it stands for Clinton In Action? n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #50
This place is just surreal sometimes. myrna minx Feb 2016 #51
Kissinger phone chat with CIA director Helms on Chilean coup PonyUp Feb 2016 #52
On Kissinger, Poppy Bush and the Company workin' outta Chile Octafish Feb 2016 #62
K&R to expose the stupid. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #53
Carter, JFK thought that the CIA was too dangerous. ladjf Feb 2016 #54
Truman, too. merrily Feb 2016 #58
fallacious treestar Feb 2016 #67
There's an abundance if information about JFK, Carter's and Truman's ladjf Feb 2016 #70
I think that's called the Appeal to Authority treestar Feb 2016 #72
In 1974, so did I. Fuddnik Feb 2016 #55
I'm with Bernie on this one eom Arazi Feb 2016 #56
Where do you get this safe concept? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #59
The CIA that has started more wars and fomented the terrorism Fawke Em Feb 2016 #60
He explained that in detail last nite. Did ya listen? jillan Feb 2016 #61
kick n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #73
Sort of like the Republicans calling to abolish the IRS... brooklynite Feb 2016 #74
Except the IRS doesn't kill people. cyberswede Feb 2016 #78
"Not fit to lead" is over the line Funtatlaguy Feb 2016 #76
oh right because the stuff people say about Hillary ericson00 Feb 2016 #81
we need intelligence gathering. drray23 Feb 2016 #79
Those agencies should be "folded" back into the military nilesobek Feb 2016 #80
So did Harry Truman. With good reason. They're a bunch of thugs and killers. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #82
The CIA kept us safe by helping oust Arbenz, Mossadegh, the guy in Syria in '49? Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #84

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
2. CIA, which helps keep us safe? Get real.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:00 PM
Feb 2016

Most of the issues we're facing today are blowback from messed up CIA operations.

Kept us safe?

Gee, that sounds like a Republican meme about Dubyah; He kept us safe.

Except for that twin towers major catastrophe....

amborin

(16,631 posts)
18. Exactly; the CIA has kept us UN-SAFE! Working hand in hand currently with the Saudis and
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:29 PM
Feb 2016

wreaking havoc everywhere

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
57. Hillary supporter is pro spying, anti tax, pro war, pro Kissenger? Suprising!
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:52 PM
Feb 2016

Folks like that used to be called "Republicans".

7wo7rees

(5,128 posts)
5. So did JFK, but we all know how that worked out.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:05 PM
Feb 2016

IMHO the CIA has done far more harm than any good ever.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
6. You sound like someone that would write this:
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:06 PM
Feb 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1211807

for all of Kissinger's faults, Kissinger is not a COMMUNIST like Cornel West and Noam Trotsky
so if I had to chose, I'd choose the former, not the latter.
 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
75. Wow, what kind of a dangerously confused person would write that?
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:41 AM
Feb 2016

Wake up, people, McCarthyism is dead.

PghTiny

(276 posts)
7. Given the CIA's history, Bernie's correct on this issue
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:09 PM
Feb 2016

The overthrow of Mohammed Mossadeq in Iran in 1953, the overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile in 1973, the toppling of Gough Whitlam in Australia in 1975, and support for plenty of other right-wing corporate friendly dictators throughout the post-WW2 period. Seems the CIA is a play thing for 1%ers with more money than sense.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
8. Are you lost?
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:09 PM
Feb 2016

The CIA keeps us safe? Not fit to lead and protect this great country?



That's exactly what the right wing nut jobs said about Obama.

This is Democratic Underground, websites who welcome that kind of rhetoric are that way ----->

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
20. Frightening are those who do not research.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:45 PM
Feb 2016

Meanwhile, 70% of Americans aren't happy with them. Why is that?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
11. Brockenstein -- "But we're just vetting Bernie" Sounding more Nixonian every day.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:11 PM
Feb 2016

No the Clinton campaign is just demonstrating how low they will stoop.
You'd expect this from Republicans.

Oh silly me.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
44. Did he propose that or not?
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:53 AM
Feb 2016

Are you saying he never said that?

Bernie has to be able to stand up to vetting and a lot of it will be unfair.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
46. In 1974
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:57 AM
Feb 2016

Yes the GOp may trot ioyut things like that.

But for democrats to criticize it implicitly condones the factors that led Bernie -- and many others -- to be so critical of the CIA back then-- overthrowing governments and imposing and supporting brutal fascist regimes on countries

treestar

(82,383 posts)
66. I don't think it condones any bad acts
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:30 PM
Feb 2016

to say that we probably need the CIA - there are things that it is supposed to do and they may do those things OK or even well.

Abolishing it would mean its functions have to go somewhere. There's little doubt we need those functions.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
71. He wouldn't say shut down all the legitimate roles now
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 03:21 PM
Feb 2016

The 70's were a different time and -- especially under Nixon, the CIA was widely discredited by heinous things they were doing, and the dirtier partrs of their history.

For liberal left , what Bernie was saying was not far of what many were saying.

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
12. The CIA is responsible for creating FAR more problems for us in the world . . .
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:13 PM
Feb 2016

. . . than it has EVER kept us safe from! Get.A.Clue!

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
16. Cmon 40 years ago? I bet you had hair then.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:23 PM
Feb 2016

He was young and like the rest of us in the sixties pretty much hated CIA. BTW, kept us real safe on 911 huh?

PeteSelman

(1,508 posts)
17. You poor sap.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:27 PM
Feb 2016

The CIA has done more to put us in danger than any other entity worldwide.

Keep us safe? Pah. What a load of hooey.

Kennedy wanted to break up the CIA too, look what happened to him. Protect us? Hahaha!

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
19. You should do a little research
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:30 PM
Feb 2016
http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres8/BLUMkillinghope.pdf

William Blum serves up a forensic overview of U.S. foreign policy spanning sixty years. For those who want the details on our most famous actions (Chile, Cuba, Vietnam, to name a few), and for those who want to learn about our lesser-known efforts (France, China, Bolivia, Brazil, for example), this book provides a window on what our foreign policy goals really are.

If you flip over the rock of American foreign policy of the past century, this is what crawls out… invasions … bombings … overthrowing governments … occupations … suppressing movements for social change … assassinating political leaders … perverting elections … manipulating labor unions … manufacturing “news” … death squads … torture … biological warfare … depleted uranium … drug trafficking … mercenaries …

It’s not a pretty picture. It’s enough to give imperialism a bad name.

Read the full details in: Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II.

“Far and away the best book on the topic.” – Noam Chomsky

“I enjoyed it immensely.” – Gore Vidal

“I bought several more copies to circulate to friends with the hope of shedding new light and understanding on their political outlooks.” – Oliver Stone

“A very valuable book. The research and organization are extremely impressive.” – A. J. Langguth, author, former New York Times Bureau Chief

“A very useful piece of work, daunting in scope, important.” –Thomas Powers, author, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist

“Each chapter I read made me more and more angry.” – Dr. Helen Caldicott, international leader of the anti-nuclear and environmental movements

http://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/





 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. It's a topic worthy of discussion.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:49 PM
Feb 2016

But probably complete abolishment is too simplistic.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"
[/center][/font][hr]

merrily

(45,251 posts)
27. These just keep getting funnier. P.S. President Truman called for abolishing it, too--and he's the
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 03:50 AM
Feb 2016

one who established it. That's how fast it went rogue. One of the ten best Presidents in US history by the standards of honest historians.

Read up, k?

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
29. Since its inception the criminal organization known as the CIA has been...
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 03:53 AM
Feb 2016

a murder incorporated on a global scale, and also the greatest danger to the security of the American people. No other organization has been as instrumental in creating the "enemies" with which "we" then go to war.

It is hilarious that you think this true and honest statement is a minus for Sanders. The sad thing is that this is something he is highly unlikely to live up to if he is elected. If he tries, of course, he endangers his own life.

MrWendel

(1,881 posts)
30. So...
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 03:56 AM
Feb 2016

what's the alternative to the CIA? Do we structurally change it or just start tearing down institutions? FBI? Military? Just shrug and say "Shit happens"

Did Bernie have an alternative?

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
32. Oh god you folks are so funny in your ignorance.
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:09 AM
Feb 2016

The fucking CIA has done monumental damage to the United States reputation in the world. Bay of Pigs, assassinations of other country's leaders.

You have to some special kind of deluded to think the CIA is a good thing. George fucking Bush ran the CIA. No wonder you support Clinton.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
33. Wow
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:20 AM
Feb 2016

The CIA he caused the US more harm than al Qaeda could ever dream of. They have killed so many innocent civilians and done so much that is illegal and against the countries own interests.

They should be defunded and their agents and leadership should be indicted and tried where it is the right thing to do..

F@&k the CIA.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
35. While I'd stop short of literally abolishing the CIA
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:36 AM
Feb 2016

It needs to be drastically reined in. Unfortunately it's just completely won a huge turf war among it, NSA, and DIA (Snowden was the first salvo), and will probably be stronger going forward than it's been since the 60s.

 

PonyUp

(1,680 posts)
37. How 6 Million People Were Killed In CIA Secret Wars Against Third World Countries
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:40 AM
Feb 2016



John Stockwell, former CIA Station Chief in Angola in 1976, working for then Director of the CIA, George Bush. He spent 13 years in the agency. He gives a short history of CIA covert operations. He is a very compelling speaker and the highest level CIA officer to testify to the Congress about his actions. He estimates that over 6 million people have died in CIA covert actions, and this was in the late 1980's.


John Stockwell is the highest-ranking CIA official ever to leave the agency and go public. He ran a CIA intelligence-gathering post in Vietnam, was the task-force commander of the CIA's secret war in Angola in 1975 and 1976, and was awarded the Medal of Merit before he resigned. Stockwell's book In Search of Enemies, published by W.W. Norton 1978, is an international best-seller.



"I did 13 years in the CIA altogether. I sat on a subcommittee of the NSC, so I was like a chief of staff, with the GS-18s (like 3-star generals) Henry Kissinger, Bill Colby (the CIA director), the GS-18s and the CIA, making the important decisions and my job was to put it all together and make it happen and run it, an interesting place from which to watch a covert action being done...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
38. The CIA keeps us safe?
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:42 AM
Feb 2016

They didn't keep us so safe when they flooded the inner cities with crack. Or gave us false info leading up to the Iraq invasion.

Oh, and it isn't 1974.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
42. Would that be the institution that gives the government a bad name by spying on us and instigating
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:50 AM
Feb 2016

coups abroad? Yes, I can totally see how that keeps us safe. O wait, you mean "in check" rather than "safe".

Are you in the 1 %, by any chance?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
43. I think it is DU Canon that the CIA is evil
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:51 AM
Feb 2016

it is made up entirely of devils who only want to topple good foreign government to replace them with bad ones. And spy on Americans (though to what effect, as we don't have political prisoners and are free to say even the most ridiculous things on the internets).

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
47. Okay, defend Iran, Cuba (regardless of how you feel about Castro)...
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:00 PM
Feb 2016

Chile, Argentina and all the other shit the CIA has done. Or are you just going to handwave it all away because our mainstream media does too?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
63. You are focusing only on the bad
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:21 PM
Feb 2016

Probably a lot of ordinary stuff goes on too.

Also, when does it drop off the list? How long ago does it have to be - can it at least move up to the birthdates of whoever is currently there? A lot of these things happened before they were born.

It may well do good, but DU has demonized it focusing only on the negative. Sort of the way the police are treated. Have a few bad things happen and all are tainted.

By that measure most of us are just as bad as they are few people who are perfect.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
65. So we have perspective
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:28 PM
Feb 2016

rather than black and white thinking. If you look ONLY at the bad stuff then you could be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It's hard for the CIA to show what it does that it is supposed to do and that is helping as by its nature it would be stuff we don't want the targets to know.

It's hard to imagine anyone in the modern world thinking we could do without it as to what it is supposed to do.

And why the people there now have to get blamed for what the institution did before they were born.



Octafish

(55,745 posts)
48. No. Just the leadership like Allen Dulles and John McCone...
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:01 PM
Feb 2016

...and those who benefit from all the banksters and warmongers and those with the biggest guns of all -- you know, the friends of Prescott Bush and his son George Herbert Walker Bush and his grandson George Walker Bush.

Tom Hayden saw the CIA director wasn't just another nice guy and had an undemocratic streak:



...And finally, the power elite ruled beyond, or behind, elected officials. To take one example among many, official disclosures in 1984 revealed that John McCone, Kennedy’s CIA director, head of the Atomic Energy Commission and Bechtel executive, conspired with the FBI in a “psychological warfare campaign” against the Free Speech Movement and to elect Ronald Reagan governor of California. Rampant conspiracy theories seemed to negate the prospects of popular movements and peaceful transitions through elections. But even if the paranoia went too far, as it usually did, there were still grounds for believing that manipulators were behind the curtain...

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2012/03/30/participatory-democracy-port-huron-statement-occupy-wall-street



The news from Langley concerned a report by (the current?) CIA historian, David Robarge. He is the fellow who was trotted out before the cameras a few years' back to say the CIA wouldn't release part of its Bay of Pigs history, the part of the report written by Inspector General Lyman Kirkpatrick that apparently assigned responsibility for the Bay of Pigs fiasco to CIA ops guy Richard Bissell.

Background on the Bush connection from historian and political science guy Larry J. Sabato, author of "The Kennedy Half-Century: The Presidency, Assassination, and Lasting Legacy of John F. Kennedy," in April 1969, Prescott Bush wrote Clover Dulles:

I recall in the summer of 1961, after the ill-fated Bay of Pigs affair, you were away and we called Allen to come for supper, and he accepted. That afternoon he called and asked if he could bring a friend, and we said "surely." So he brought John McCone, whom we had known well, but had not thought of as a particular friend of Allen's. But Allen broke the ice promptly, and said, in good spirit, that he wanted us to meet his successor. The announcement came (the) next day. We tried to make a pleasant evening of it, but I was rather sick at heart, and angry too, for it was the Kennedys that brought about the fiasco. And here they were making Allen seem to be the goat, which he wasn't and did not deserve. I have never forgiven them. (Misspellings corrected here.)

SOURCE p. 368 online:

https://books.google.com/books?id=X7OnBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA368&lpg=PA368&dq=john+mccone+%2B+prescott+bush&source=bl&ots=dJAjiC_h6D&sig=fkfjmBYhc8KD3Relu4Vc93mEyCo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBmoVChMInOeZgovAyAIVBpiACh0JnAxi#v=onepage&q=john%20mccone%20%2B%20prescott%20bush&f=false


Clearly shows how the players, like the aspens, look like a forest of individual trees above ground, but really are connected by their roots underground.

Secret Government should be a matter of concern for all who believe in Democracy. Those who laugh it off are either fooling themselves or trying to fool others.



Octafish

(55,745 posts)
45. I'll show you who's ''not fit to lead and protect this great country.''
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:56 AM
Feb 2016
A NEW BIOGRAPHY TRACES THE PATHOLOGY OF ALLEN DULLES AND HIS APPALLING CABAL

by Jon Schwarz
The Intercept, Nov. 2 2015, 1:24 p.m.

EXCERPT...

Because what the Safari Club demonstrates is that Dulles’ entire spooky world is beyond the reach of American democracy. Even the most energetic post-World War II attempt to rein it in was in the end as effective as trying to lasso mist. And today we’ve largely returned to the balance of power Dulles set up in the 1950s. As Jay Rockefeller said in 2007 when he was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, “Don’t you understand the way intelligence works? Do you think that because I’m chairman of the Intelligence Committee that I just say ‘I want it, give it to me’? They control it. All of it. All of it. All the time.”

In February 2002, Saudi Prince Turki Al Faisal, head of Saudi intelligence from 1977 until September 1, 2001, traveled to Washington, D.C. While there, Turki, who’d graduated from Georgetown University in the same class as Bill Clinton, delivered a speech at his alma mater that included an unexpected history lesson:

In 1976, after the Watergate matters took place here, your intelligence community was literally tied up by Congress. It could not do anything. It could not send spies, it could not write reports, and it could not pay money. In order to compensate for that, a group of countries got together in the hope of fighting communism and established what was called the Safari Club. The Safari Club included France, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and Iran … so, the Kingdom, with these countries, helped in some way, I believe, to keep the world safe when the United States was not able to do that. That, I think, is a secret that many of you don’t know.

Turki was not telling the whole truth. He was right that his Georgetown audience likely had never heard any of this before, but the Safari Club had been known across the Middle East for decades. After the Iranian revolution the new government gave Mohamed Hassanein Heikal, one of the most prominent journalists in the Arab world, permission to examine the Shah’s archives. There Heikal discovered the actual formal, written agreement between the members of the Safari Club, and wrote about it in a 1982 book called Iran: The Untold Story.

And the Safari Club was not simply the creation of the countries Turki mentioned — Americans were involved as well. It’s true the U.S. executive branch was somewhat hamstrung during the period between the post-Watergate investigations of the intelligence world and the end of the Carter administration. But the powerful individual Americans who felt themselves “literally tied up” by Congress — that is, unfairly restrained by the most democratic branch of the U.S. government — certainly did not consider the decisions of Congress to be the final word.

Whatever its funding sources, the evidence suggests the Safari Club was largely the initiative of these powerful Americans. According to Heikal, its real origin was when Henry Kissinger, then secretary of state, “talked a number of rich Arab oil countries into bankrolling operations against growing communist influence on their doorstep” in Africa. Alexandre de Marenches, a right-wing aristocrat who headed France’s version of the CIA, eagerly formalized the project and assumed operational leadership. But, Heikal writes, “The United States directed the whole operation,” and “giant U.S. and European corporations with vital interests in Africa” leant a hand. As John K. Cooley, the Christian Science Monitor’s longtime Mideast correspondent, put it, the setup strongly appealed to the U.S. executive branch: “Get others to do what you want done, while avoiding the onus or blame if the operation fails.”

This all seems like something Americans would like to know, especially since de Marenches may have extended his covert operations to the 1980 U.S. presidential election. In 1992, de Marenches’ biographer testified in a congressional investigation that the French spy told him that he had helped arrange an October 1980 meeting in Paris between William Casey, Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign manager, and the new Islamic Republic of Iran. The goal of such a meeting, of course, would have been to persuade Iran to keep its American hostages until after the next month’s election, thus denying Carter any last-minute, politically potent triumph.

De Marenches and the Safari Club certainly had a clear motive to oust Carter: They blamed him for allowing one of their charter members, the Shah, to fall from power. But whether de Marenches’ claims were true or not, we do know that history unfolded exactly as he and the Safari Club would have wished. The hostages weren’t released until Reagan was inaugurated, Reagan appointed Casey director of the CIA, and from that point forward America’s intelligence “community” was back in business.

And yet normal citizens would have a hard time just finding out the Safari Club even existed, much less the outlines of its activities. It appears to have been mentioned just once by the New York Times, in a profile of a French spy novelist. It likewise has made only one appearance in the Washington Post, in a 2005 online chat in which a reader asked the Post’s former Middle East bureau chief Thomas Lippman, “Does the Safari Club, formed in the mid-70s, still exist?” Lippman responded: “I never heard of it, so I have no idea.”

CONTINUED...

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/02/the-deepest-state-the-safari-club-allen-dulles-and-the-devils-chessboard/

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
51. This place is just surreal sometimes.
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:07 PM
Feb 2016

Next we'll find out that Kissinger is an honorary Democratic super delegate.

 

PonyUp

(1,680 posts)
52. Kissinger phone chat with CIA director Helms on Chilean coup
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:14 PM
Feb 2016

"We will not let Chile go down the drain".


Octafish

(55,745 posts)
62. On Kissinger, Poppy Bush and the Company workin' outta Chile
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:15 PM
Feb 2016

Operating on behalf of Nixon and Wall Street, the CIA and Milton Friedman & Friends perfected the art of turning the screws through austerity in Chile.



Too bad, so sad about all the little people who didn't go along with the big plan. Oh well. "Progress."



"The Chicago Boys in Chile: Economic Freedom's Awful Toll"

Orlando Letelier
August 28, 1976

EXCERPT...

The Economic Prescription and Chile's Reality

SNIP...

These are the basic principles of the economic model offered by Friedman and his followers and adopted by the Chilean junta: that the only possible framework for economic development is one within which the private sector can freely operate; that private enterprise is the most efficient form of economic organization and that, therefore, the private sector should be the predominant factor in the economy. Prices should fluctuate freely in accordance with the laws of competition. Inflation, the worst enemy of economic progress, is the direct result of monetary expansion and can be eliminated only by a drastic reduction of government spending.

Except in present-day Chile, no government in the world gives private enterprise an absolutely free hand. That is so because every economist (except Friedman and his followers) has known for decades that, in the real life of capitalism, there is no such thing as the perfect competition described by classical liberal economists. In March 1975, in Santiago, a newsman dared suggest to Friedman that even in more advanced capitalist countries, as for example the United States, the government applies various types of controls on the economy. Mr. Friedman answered: I have always been against it, I don't approve of them. I believe we should not apply them. I am against economic intervention by the government, in my own country, as well as in Chile or anywhere else (Que Pasa, Chilean weekly, April 3, 1975).

SNIP...

A Rationale tor Power

SNIP...

Until September 11, 1973, the date of the coup, Chilean society had been characterized by the increasing participation of the working class and its political parties in economic and social decision making. Since about 1900, employing the mechanisms of representative democracy, workers had steadily gained new economic, social and political power. The election of Salvador Allende as President of Chile was the culmination of this process. For the first time in history a society attempted to build socialism by peaceful means. During Allende's time in office, there was a marked improvement in the conditions of employment, health, housing, land tenure and education of the masses. And as this occurred, the privileged domestic groups and the dominant foreign interests perceived themselves to be seriously threatened.

Despite strong financial and political pressure from abroad and efforts to manipulate the attitudes of the middle class by propaganda, popular support for the Allende government increased significantly between 1970 and 1973. In March 1973, only five months before the military coup, there were Congressional elections in Chile. The political parties of the Popular Unity increased their share of the votes by more than 7 percentage points over their totals in the Presidential election of 1970. This was the first time in Chilean history that the political parties supporting the administration in power gained votes during a midterm election. The trend convinced the national bourgeoisie and its foreign supporters that they would be unable to recoup their privileges through the democratic process. That is why they resolved to destroy the democratic system and the institutions of the state, and, through an alliance with the military, to seize power by force.

In such a context, concentration of wealth is no accident, but a rule; it is not the marginal outcome of a difficult situation -- as they would like the world to believe -- but the base for a social project; it is not an economic liability but a temporary political success. Their real failure is not their apparent inability to redistribute wealth or to generate a more even path of development (these are not their priorities) but their inability to convince the majority of Chileans that their policies are reasonable and necessary. In short, they have failed to destroy the consciousness of the Chilean people. The economic plan has had to be enforced, and in the Chilean context that could be done only by the killing of thousands, the establishment of concentration camps all over the country, the jailing of more than 100,000 persons in three years, the closing of trade unions and neighbourhood organizations, and the prohibition of all political activities and all forms of free expression.

While the Chicago boys have provided an appearance of technical respectability to the laissez-faire dreams and political greed of the old landowning oligarchy and upper bourgeoisie of monopolists and financial speculators, the military has applied the brutal force required to achieve those goals. Repression for the majorities and economic freedom for small privileged groups are in Chile two sides of the same coin.

CONTINUED...

http://www.ditext.com/letelier/chicago.html



Three weeks after this was published in The Nation (Aug. 28, 1976), Orlando Letelier was assassinated by a car bomb in Washington, D.C.





FWIW: Then-CIA Director George Herbert Walker Bush knew all about Operation Condor and didn't stop them from killing Orlando Letelier and his American companion, Ronni Moffit.



DCI Bush even told then-Congressman Ed Koch (D-NY), threatened anonymously for his work uncovering Operation Condor and its associated evil at the time, "Nothing I can do."

Why does this matter today? What the CIA and Big Money Boys did in Chile in 1973 was a dry run for what they're doing to the USA today.



A Critique of the Chicago School of Economics:

CHILE: THE LABORATORY TEST

EXCERPT...

Chile's privatized pensions

One of the most trumpeted "successes" of Chile's economic miracle is the privatization of its public social security system. It's most vocal supporter is Chilean economist José Piñera, who was once Pinochet's Minister of Labor, and therefore one of the most hated men in Chile. Today he is an international salesman of sorts, selling other nations on the idea of Chile's retirement program. Journalist Fred Solowey writes:

"In his speeches and articles, Piñera credits the Chilean pension model with producing just about everything short of the second coming of Christ: pensions that are 40-50 percent higher than under Social Security; security for the old; lower costs due to the 'fact' that the private sector is much more efficient than the public; a rate of savings rivaling that in an Asian 'tiger' economy; and even the end of class conflict in Chile." (38)


Piñera is co-chairman of a $2 million war being waged against U.S. Social Security by the Cato Institute. Their goal is to privatize the program along Chilean lines. Converts to their cause include Newt Gingerich, and, apparently, Time magazine. In a cover story entitled "The Case for Killing Social Security," Time included a sidebar on "How Chile Got it Right." (39) The operative word here is right, as in right-wing — Time's article quotes all the usual conservative think tanks, but not a single dissenting voice.

The Chilean retirement system is only a success to those companies who are pulling down outrageous profits from it. For the working people of Chile, it is a disaster in the making. According to SAFP, the government agency which regulates the private pensions, 96 percent of the known work force were enrolled in the private pensions as of February, 1995, but 43.4 percent of the account owners were not adding to their funds. Perhaps as many as 60 percent do not contribute regularly. Given the rising poverty in Chile, it is not difficult to understand why. Unfortunately, regular contributions are necessary to receive full benefits.

By 1988, about one fourth of Chilean workers were contributing enough to make the program's minimum benefits: $1.25 a day! (40) Critics charge that only 20 percent of the contributors will actually receive good pensions.

Worse, much of the plan's supposedly higher benefits are projected from the surging economic growth rates of the late 80s. But this growth followed a deep economic depression in 1983, and was bound to be high for many years following. Now that actual growth has caught up to potential growth, the Chilean economy is slowing down. The pensions are therefore not going to be as profitable as their cheerleaders claim.

When the current system was created in the early 80s, the government gave the people their choice: stay in the public program, or start contributing to private pensions. Over 90 percent of the people switched over to the private plan. This was carried out, however, under a mixture of threats, coercion and short term incentives. Many employers simply switched their employees' plans for them. The cash-starved public also received short-term pay increases by switching to private pensions, whereas the cost of the public programs went up for those who stayed in them.

"With the information I now have," says Cecilia Prado, a 17-year public employee, "I never would have switched. Under a democratic government they never could have imposed it on us. And if they ever passed a law allowing people to go back, there would be a great exodus." (41)

What many defenders of Chile's current program do not reveal is that under the old public plan, workers received not only pensions, but health care, low-interest housing loans from pension funds, and many other benefits. And that program covered 75 percent of all Chileans. When the private pensions went into effect, all these other services were dropped. As a result, Chile's "welfare pensions" for the desperately needy quickly rose 400 percent — up to the legal limit.

It is also extremely telling that when Pinochet introduced the program, his army and police were allowed to keep their own generous public plans. The private plans that were suitable for the masses apparently weren't good enough for those in charge of the country.

CONTINUED...

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-chichile.htm



José Piñera is now working out of the Cato Institute, where the Koch Brothers are big.

Regarding Austerity: They know if We the People are sufficiently worried about keeping a roof over the family and food on the table, We won't have much time to worry about little stuff like Democracy.

More on the subject: from the National Security Archive at George Washington University.

Wonder what else they got in store for the USA?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
67. fallacious
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:32 PM
Feb 2016

we don't have to agree with a premise merely because two great men thought it. Very shallow analysis.

And very overgeneralized. What was "too dangerous?" Have those things been corrected since, or become obsolete?

And haven't the threats become quite different?

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
70. There's an abundance if information about JFK, Carter's and Truman's
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 02:28 PM
Feb 2016

opposition to the CIA. If you are interested in this topic , do some research.

No, you don't have to agree with JFK or Carter. Their only qualifications were that they were Presidents of the U.S.A and are considered to be authorities on American Government.

And your credentials?

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
60. The CIA that has started more wars and fomented the terrorism
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:11 PM
Feb 2016

that kills our people here and abroad?

Keeps us safe, my ass.

brooklynite

(94,594 posts)
74. Sort of like the Republicans calling to abolish the IRS...
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:36 AM
Feb 2016

...ignore the fact that you need an intelligence agency, which may need to be reformed; come out with an applause line for your base.

drray23

(7,633 posts)
79. we need intelligence gathering.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:57 AM
Feb 2016

Abolishing the CIA is shortsighted. Its like saying we should abolish the military because they commited atrocities during vietnam. The real issue is put in place reforms and controls such that they dont go around fomenting coups and the like. We live in a complex world. Simple solutions make good campaign slogans but tgey dont work.



nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
80. Those agencies should be "folded" back into the military
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:01 AM
Feb 2016

from which they sprang. Get these agencies out of the lexicon of public life. There is a need which should only be part of the military and their activities should be curtailed to militay matters.

Bernie was 42 years ahead of his time on this issue.

Oddly there is a lot of cheerleading of intelligence agencies on this website.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
82. So did Harry Truman. With good reason. They're a bunch of thugs and killers.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:02 PM
Feb 2016

With a very ling criminal record.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
84. The CIA kept us safe by helping oust Arbenz, Mossadegh, the guy in Syria in '49?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:27 PM
Mar 2016

If by "us" you mean United Fruit, yeah, sure.

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