Hillary's inability to move her numbers in any meaningful way show just how un-electable she will be in the general. She would even lose to None of the above

read here that nearly 70% of the electorate is white working class; can that be accurate?

http://prospect.org/article/working-class-voters-hold-key-2016

anyway, they are looking towards either Bernie or Trump

If that was the case, the Obama coalition would never have won in '08 and '12.

Romney won nearly 70% of the white vote. Maybe that's where that figure is coming from.

Gee, thats odd.

some

teeth into him, the map will be a sea of red.

They are the reason she is wildly unpopular with the voters.

Bernie is not subject to the same type of attacks b/c he doesn't have a track record of being caught saying two different things.

Last edited Tue Feb 23, 2016, 01:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Was that a mirage? Are our lying eyes and ears fooling us into just thinking she won?

Freud strikes again.

Just state what you mean so people don't have to guess what you're going on about because it's pretty clear that Sanders lost in Nevada where there are POC, which doesn't bode well for his chances in SC and the Super Tuesday states.

Hows that for clarity?

Hence the reference to Freud. What I assume you meant was "ethnically", quite a different meaning.
Hillary's ethics were questionable in Nevada.

I'll fix it.

And with the help of all the state unions.

If she was popular she would be winning decisively.. not behind in the popular vote and tied in delegates.

Al Gore had FAR more substantial victories against Bill Bradley in 2000.

Clinton is a weak, weak candidate being equally by someone w/o a Super Pac and billionaires propping him up.

Her 'lead' continues to fizzle

She could win the nomination because she has almost the entire Democratic establishment backing her but she will be toast in the GE because she is very weak among independents and Trump will hit her hard on her Wall Street dealings and lack of transparency. Bernie is the only hope to defeat Trump.

But truthfully has no one but herself to blame.

From April, 2015... I had NO IDEA that a leading charity-watchdog group had put the Clinton Foundation on

a "watch-list"!


http://nypost.com/2015/04/26/charity-watchdog-clinton-foundation-a-slush-fund/


I don't read the NY Post very often...maybe that's why. Was this widely-publicized already, and I just missed it?

...what it took them 25 years to do to Hillary.

Especially considering how scandal-free his background is (after about 35 years in politics), I don't think it is possible to get his unfavorables as high as Hillary's already are.

Besides, how telling is it when a fifty year old photo and the man's religion are being trotted out on talking head shows?

Voters will laugh that kind of crap off the planet.

Please proceed....

someone so scandal riddled it is hard for you to fathom?

he's amazing clean... I guess it helps being an independent for so long.

as if being independent is what keeps one scandal free. lordy lordy. the pretzels here sure are good.

Here in Philadelphia the preponderance of cars are bearing Bernie stickers on a 5 Bernie to 1 Hilary.

Anecdotal - speaking to people from 20 - 65 - mention Hilary and the reaction is generally, "Her? Wouldn't cross the road to meet her and won't cross party lines to vote for her. Bernie? I'm an independent and he gets my vote in the primary and the GE. If 'she' gets the nomination I'll stay home."

Several Republicans that I know are ready to cross the aisle for Bernie. If 'she' is the candidate, they'll stay home as well.

So her sense that she wants it, she needs it, she deserves the nomination dammit, because of _________ (fill in your own chosen term) will ultimately show her to be Medea as regards the Democratic Party.

though obviously it's not over

I spoke with a republican who is voting this weekend for Bernie, along with his wife and daughters. He does not want Hillary to get in. He also told me he worked with African Americans and that they were voting for Bernie, he said they did not like Hillary . He said he did not know how it would go but it might close the gap some.

The lack of trust that the HRC brand exudes washes over the electorate with an ammoniac stink.

then the attacks begin

And the only people believing it are in Her Majesty's club of beliebers.

and we don't know but believe that Bernie might bear the brunt of similarly vicious attacks if nominated, it seems to me that the most logical, wisest thing to do is to nominate Bernie.

There is a tiny possibility that the vicious attacks against won't be as severe as those that have gone on for decades now against Hilary and maybe won't be bad at all.

from decades of conviction and commitment.

That's why I suspect he never "joined" the Democrats officially...they couldn't run him into the ethical ground, but did enjoy his support and experience. He would never be where he is today if he were a Democrat of the Establishment...no way, no how. Now...just like in Congress...he can support the segment of the Democratic Party that doesn't stink with corporate money.

The coat tails have already begun. He'll do the same to the Republicans...just point out how bought they are over and over and over again. Red Meat? Republican red meat.

Oh, and the Socialist meme has already left the barn...it made Americans see how much Socialism they have, and they rather like it. Try and take any of it away.

Next?

He wanted to be beholden only to voters.

THAT CREEEP!!1111!!!

but, although she does an admirable job of brushing them off her shoulder, the fact is that the public has not withstood the rightwing attacks on her.

i abhor the way she has been treated all these years, but that does not alter the damage that's been done. it is simply a fact that an entire generation has been brought up to despise hillary clinton the way they were taught to hate black people. it runs that deep.

it is despicable, but it is also true. (have you ever run into one of these folks? they are really scary.)

this is very real baggage you would think the DNC would be wise enough to consider.

along with the fact that she remains under FBI investigation.

the most brazen sorts of conflicts of interest and shady dealing by her own choices is no help, either.

From god knows who for god knows what.

Much less complex.

He owes noone nothing, except what he will gladly deliver to the people that support him.

The things he has been supporting his entire life.

And did not sit on the Board of WalMart or wipe any servers. Not under investigation by the FBI, either!!!111!!!

It's going to be a real bloodbath.

Meanwhile, I don't let Republicans decide how I vote. Why would you?

is "withstanding" them, I'd hate to see what getting rolled would look like. There's a reason people believe that about her, it's not all a right-wing conspiracy. She does it to herself. See: Bosnian sniper stories.

on the same scale and in the same manner as Richard Nixon. There, I said it.

Trump used to be the one GOP candidate she reliably beat or at least tied in (national) polls (not a lot of state-by-state data to go with yet). assuming the TOP half of the data is not Sanders fan fiction, how is HRC going to turn this around to win the presidency?

i think there's a real problem with her campaign and her viability in the GE. saying stuff like "Sanders just hasn't been attacked as hard yet" doesn't tell me how HRC is poised to win the election, but rather that you don't think either of our candidates can do it and i should start preparing for 8 years of president Whatever-Assclown-The-GOP-Nominates.

And she was right in there supporting NAFTA and many Midwestern states lost Thousands of jobs to Mexico because of it.

You really think she has the union vote...Think again. She might have the Union Executive Council Endorsements but not the General membership by far...As bad as i hate to see it..If Hillary gets the nomination Trumps get the Union vote

All you have are talking points. Erroneous words that are full of hot air.

There is no evidence that some big day of reckoning is coming for Bernie. Just because Hillary is a scandal factory, doesn't mean that the most politicians are like her.

She never stops generating controversy because she is full of hubris, power-hungry and she thinks she can do anything and get away with it. Her emails, her warmongering, her accepting corporate bribes, her Clinton Foundation that is a petri dish of "pay to play" scandals. Those are just the NEW things!

Bernie doesn't engage in the kind of amoral, sick behavior that Hillary does.

Bernie has been in public service for 3 decades. He's been through many elections. He HAS been vetted by his opponents in those elections.

Sick of the lies from Camp Weathervane!

He's been scrutinized as a politician for decades by Republicans and Democrats.

He's not going to face 1/10th of the garbage they've got on Hillary.

They'll try to paint him as a radical commie. Or use his early writings against him. Stuff like that.

The GOP have had an office setup for months with staff dedicated to dig everything they can up on her. Hillary is going to be the most trashed candidate in American history. I think the attack she will endure will be daily and unprecedented.

She gives them more ammo every day. They LOVE to attack her. Whether what they say is true or not won't matter to the masses once it's said.

Look how they attacked Obama. They've been longing for this day.

We need change and HRC represents more and more of the same. Apparently you are ok with more of the same.

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

At least they have work to do with Sanders.

Bullshit talking points are not 'scandals'

The right have no teeth against the truth

he's in for the long haul and the American Voters are making sure he stands tall

Somehow he managed it.

This will not be pretty if she is the candidate.

She will destroy the party in the GE.

Imagining polls of theoretical match-ups reflect what would happen in an actual campaign is just what the GOP hope you will do.

Polls don't show the effect of the GOP's mastery of demonizing opponents which they will employ in an actual election.


Republican Operatives Try to Help Bernie Sanders: "We'll win every state if Bernie's their nominee"

votes? The only way Trump could win is if only white people are allowed to vote,that's why the GOP is in full panic mode,he won't be their nominee.

Honest question. I haven't seen any data.

Saw it on Twitter a few days ago from a Journo. Of course those a GOP AAs, which there may not be many of. Or it could be something else entirely.

Goes along with what my brother in Northern Virginia tells me though -- every AA he knows is voting for Trump because many of their jobs are being hurt by illegal immigration.

I had a feeling that would be the case. He seems to be able to win over just about everyone despite being a hateful, mealy-mouthed bigot. It makes my brain hurt.

laws that have been enacted, I think that is the reason for lower Democratic primary turnout.

This is much more significant than simply saying "Sanders beat Trump by x points nationally." As President Gore will tell you, you can win the popular vote and still lose the election. State-by-state analyses are what really matter.

But seems that there are Entrenched Elite Establishment types that are on a mission...to lose the White House with a candidate that will not win against a PukeBagger.

:barf:

? A poll this far out isn't worth the digital paper it's written on. The OP seems to have a lot of confidence in Trump.

....against their strongest candidate, right?

I merely mentioned that many polls had Romney comfortably beating Obama ONE WEEK before the 2012 election. Polls judging the "strongest candidate" 8 months out from an election aren't worth the digital paper that they're printed on. I would relish seeing Hillary go one on one with Trump. She would expose him for his ignorance.

Like on the morning of November the whatever (day after the election). Either way Im prepared to say "I told you so".

Where did you get these maps? Who put the maps together?

If you really care about the Supreme Court appointments it is critical.

Unfortunately, it's the Republican base...

I've never seen anything like this election. Hopefully I never will again except in my nightmare flashbacks.

just to vote against her. She's worth at least 2-3 million additional Repig votes nationwide.

It would be a landslide / bloodbath like in the 1980 election. 533 to Minnesota's 5. Prove me wrong, Hillary supporters. The GOP hates her that much.

And yes I have my asbestos suit on.

I mention three because that's how stubborn some Hillary supporters are!

Unless they nominate Cruz, which is highly unlikely given how much the Repig establishment, and everyone else, hates him. And even then, it's no sure thing.

And it's not just that Bernie's more electable (which he is) and a much better progressive (which he certainly is), Hillary supporters need to realize that she's a GOTV dream come true - for Republicans!

Nothing would motivate them to go vote more than knowing her name's on the ballot.

Herself completely alienates the left//liberal base who are already sick to fucking death of voting for the lesser of two evils. Has zero appeal to independents and the disaffected. On top of that, the Repig cave-orc base will do everything short of coming out of graves just to vote against her. She's worth an additional 2-3 million votes for Repigs nationwide.

Hindenburg/Titanic scale disaster awaits with Herself at the top of the ticket. And when she goes down in flames, the left will be blamed and the party winched ever further to the right by the billionaires, banksters, and the MIC.

Make book on it.

Bernie or Bust.

And I bet they've been working on that too.

since this began. Hillary can't win the general, no matter who the Republican candidate is and she can't win against Trump.

This is just nonsensical fantasy.

Perhaps you'll come across a unicorn too.

overcome 30 point deficits in Super Tuesday primaries?

The doom and gloom of Camp Sanders, as they whine and whine about how badly Hillary will perform in the fall if they take their ball and go home in a huff, is ignorant of just how completely polarizing Trump is to people of color. Asians, Latinos, and A-A's will be mobilized in record number to vote against that xenophobic asshat.

And not this fantastical tripe of a chart.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html#polls

Yeah, what could he possibly have as a draw there?


Unless you want to give something more than your non-analysis, I don't think this needs a response.

Hardly a "swing state".

I'd wager. Agree it's hard to imagine him taking Colorado. All the rest I could see quite easily.

Sanders would inspire a lot more confidence.

Your crystal ball?

Bernie seems capable of bringing out folks who had previously been avoiding elections before or had been disappointed with the available choices.

Bernie's supporters are possibly stronger, more passionate, and more committed than any other candidate's supporters IMHO and will make sure everyone we know shows up to vote.

Trump's supporters are filled with hatred and that has it's limits and turnoffs. A campaign built on excluding entire swaths of our population is going to get less votes in the general. I'm for Bernie, but I think Hillary can also beat Trump. We are likely to have lots of "anyone but Trump" voters this year.

Her numbers have tanked so badly since she began this primary with Bernie.

The more people listen to hear and see her, the more her numbers sink!

If we don't dig in and kick her to the curb and select Bernie as our nominee, she'll be in the single digits by November!

"I'm more electable" was always a lie-based Clinton talking point.

there'll be attack ad after attack ad of delirious NAFTAites promising a million jobs after it's passed, Clinton's ringing H1B speech, etc.

Trump's a reeking hypocrite, but Clinton's the one with a video trail

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary would lose Michigan. Hell, we couldn't even get rid of Snyder after "right to work". The GOP owns the state capitol. Hillary might have made friends in Flint, but I'm not sure the GOP will really get the blame for the water..even though they deserve it.

All Trump has to do is go isolationist and hit free trade with broadsides...show the Carrier video and say "here we go again"..after the unions educated their members on the destruction of NAFTA and free trade...it won't matter if union leadership endorses Hillary..the members will not follow. The leadership will look like hypocrites..

And nationally as well as Michigan, even if Bernie supporters get guilted into dragging the puke bags into the polls in case voting for Hillary makes them sick..most of them will not canvass, phone bank, or donate to her campaign. The arrogance and presumptuousness that she and her surrogates have shown have ensured that.

I cannot see her winning Michigan against Trump...

So we need hang in there and get Bernie through the rough spots and win this thing.

Clinton supporters IRL say that one of the reasons they are voting for her is because they think she has a better chance of winning. I keep trying to tell them that Bernie polls far better against the Repubs than she does and he has a much better chance of winning. They don't seem to get it...

…I have to say---there's the problem of Bill. Can we really be assured that in the past 16 years he's changed his spots?

With all his world travel, all her world travel, all his time of being alone—can we be sure there's nothing about him and another woman that can be spun endlessly by the press, rumored about, suggested, teased apart—or actually proven? I'm not saying there is anything. There have already been innuendos about him over the post-WH years.

This matters with the Clintons in a way it doesn't with any other political couple. Because she's supposed to be a feminist role model and icon. If she allows herself to be so disrespected—or mistreated-- or whatever the word is—by again standing by a philanderer, what does it tell the girls of the world? How does it look on the world stage? How does it bode for her getting anything done?

I've had this worry that we may be vulnerable about this in the election and decided finally to bring it up. Believe me, the Republicans are digging as hard as they can.

Just to be clear---I personally don't give a damn about any politicians private life unless it's criminal. I care about the public life—and the criminality that exists there. But the rest of the voting public sure seems to care about what our politicians do in their bedrooms.