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Armstead

(47,803 posts)
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:43 PM Feb 2016

One of the saddest things about this primary IMO

If the Democratic leadership (establishment) had given Bernie more moral support, acknowledged his legitimacy -- as a long term and popular Congress member, and one of America's Best Mayors -- and helped him buff up some of his rougher edges, I am absolutely convinced he could smoke the shit out of the GOP.

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One of the saddest things about this primary IMO (Original Post) Armstead Feb 2016 OP
It is not the Democratic Party's job to buff up Independents. hack89 Feb 2016 #1
There is an age requirement now? Armstead Feb 2016 #4
He couldn't afford an third party run - why do you think he became a Democrat? hack89 Feb 2016 #7
How the hell do you thiunk he is paying for his campaign? Armstead Feb 2016 #8
Can you give a link to money Bernie got from DNC? Yuugal Feb 2016 #14
The money came from small donors because of the (D) beside his name brush Feb 2016 #55
The letter isn't magical. Yuugal Feb 2016 #60
Link to how much money he got from the DNC vs the People? cui bono Feb 2016 #19
Can you back up your assertion with anything factual? Raster Feb 2016 #28
Then I guess the Democratic Party doesn't need Independents' votes. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #41
Opportunists exist at every level of politics including voters hack89 Feb 2016 #47
Oh, so 40% of the country are opportunists huh? Good to know. You are going on my ignore list. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #56
Touchy. Must be a Bernie supporter. nt hack89 Feb 2016 #57
Don't worry....Bernie is a virus...and he is still spreading. virtualobserver Feb 2016 #2
I still have hope...But when i think what could have been Armstead Feb 2016 #6
But instead, ............. nt ladjf Feb 2016 #3
I think it's sad to see so many people Bernie serves with attacking him. Punkingal Feb 2016 #5
Supporting Clinton isn't enough. Sanders has to be completely discredited... arcane1 Feb 2016 #34
Agreed. Vinca Feb 2016 #9
Making a bad bet and shoving a good one aside Armstead Feb 2016 #25
so now being part of the establishment is good ? JI7 Feb 2016 #10
I'm not referring to the high rolling corporate and Wall St. types Armstead Feb 2016 #11
establishment like dnc cnc pp have been attacked JI7 Feb 2016 #13
I guess you've been napping Armstead Feb 2016 #26
america will not elect a pacifist/conscious objector to be president beachbum bob Feb 2016 #12
I disagree Armstead Feb 2016 #15
Yes, we only vote in war hawks that have never fought one themselves. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #17
That's old school thinking. That won't play today. n/t cui bono Feb 2016 #20
Yes we Americans clearly prefer the unconscious types. Nt lostnfound Feb 2016 #24
Old meme that does not work. And there is something that the machine hasn't thrown at liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #42
Or indictment... John Poet Feb 2016 #49
The saddest thing is the outright lying by Clinton and many supporters. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #16
That's part of it...the shameful behavior of some Clinton supporters Armstead Feb 2016 #18
They have established themselves as the enemies of Progressive politics.[n/t] Maedhros Feb 2016 #21
I really don't think Bernie could have been made into an acceptable BreakfastClub Feb 2016 #22
He's doing great...But I'll take your own view in the spirit given Armstead Feb 2016 #23
That's not how it works, I'm afraid. The Democratic voters have rejected Sanders Tarc Feb 2016 #27
A perception shaped by the crony system Armstead Feb 2016 #30
Sanders is winning the popular vote. TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #50
Just hold your goddamn horses John Poet Feb 2016 #51
Electing a Jew isn't as "historic" as electing a woman. MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #29
I'm sure that'ps true, BUT, neither major party ever does that. Look ay how the napi21 Feb 2016 #31
If it hasn't been Sanders they'd have ganged up on someone else methinks Armstead Feb 2016 #32
Problem is, he chose not to be a Democrat, even ran against them in state elections. Hoyt Feb 2016 #33
He caucused with Dems, and chose not to be a 3rd party spoiler Armstead Feb 2016 #36
I doubt it. I think Brown has endorsed Clinton, and Warren is playing politics. Hoyt Feb 2016 #38
I'm speaking hypothetically about those two. But if they had.... Armstead Feb 2016 #39
They are long time real Democrats, well Warren was a Republican until about 1996 I think. Hoyt Feb 2016 #40
You're missing my point...It wouldn't have mattered who... Armstead Feb 2016 #44
I'm not so sure. They didn't do it in 2008, and I'm not sure OM was discriminated against. Hoyt Feb 2016 #48
he will Vote2016 Feb 2016 #35
Sanders chose not to be Democrat through most of his career. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2016 #37
I continue to hear from Sanders he does not have a PAC but the nurses PAC Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #43
Oooooooooooooooooooooooo Those awful nurses again Armstead Feb 2016 #45
I have, I would ask you to develop a sense of equivalancy in such matters. Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #46
Thejhn how can you compare a group of progressive nurses to SuperPacs backed by Armstead Feb 2016 #52
You know the truth, even Sanders has been fund raising with Big Business and Wall Street. Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #54
That's a real problem. Skid Rogue Feb 2016 #53
With Biden they might have at keast given a more kevel playing field Armstead Feb 2016 #59
Absolutely! Cobalt Violet Feb 2016 #58

hack89

(39,171 posts)
1. It is not the Democratic Party's job to buff up Independents.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:46 PM
Feb 2016

he waited too long to become a Democrat if he really wanted the party to help him.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
4. There is an age requirement now?
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:49 PM
Feb 2016

You should be damn glad he decided to entr the primatries as a dem, instead of a third party independent spoiler campaign through the general

hack89

(39,171 posts)
7. He couldn't afford an third party run - why do you think he became a Democrat?
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:51 PM
Feb 2016

he wanted the $$$$.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
8. How the hell do you thiunk he is paying for his campaign?
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:52 PM
Feb 2016

Got news for you. A whole lot of people sending small contributions. He could have done that as an independent too. Maybe not raise as much, but a hell of a lot.

 

Yuugal

(2,281 posts)
14. Can you give a link to money Bernie got from DNC?
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:03 PM
Feb 2016

I had understood 98% of his money came from small donors?

brush

(53,787 posts)
55. The money came from small donors because of the (D) beside his name
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 10:23 PM
Feb 2016

He would have gotten nowhere near the funds without Democratic Party branding.

 

Yuugal

(2,281 posts)
60. The letter isn't magical.
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 10:04 AM
Feb 2016

He has been in the trenches for a long time caucusing with the Dems. Everyone KNOWS that. When you try to spin it like he has never been a Dem you continue the image of Hillary and her people as manipulators of the truth. Please continue, the kids under 45 are eating this stuff up.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
47. Opportunists exist at every level of politics including voters
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:06 PM
Feb 2016

If it is in their interest to vote Dem, they will. If not they won't. No point in catering to them, especially the whiny, self important ones.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
56. Oh, so 40% of the country are opportunists huh? Good to know. You are going on my ignore list.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 10:55 PM
Feb 2016

Good bye.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
2. Don't worry....Bernie is a virus...and he is still spreading.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:46 PM
Feb 2016

The longer the primary goes, the more popular he will become.





 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
6. I still have hope...But when i think what could have been
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:50 PM
Feb 2016

I remember how many Dems loved Bernie and his message -- before he challenged Clinton.

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
5. I think it's sad to see so many people Bernie serves with attacking him.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:49 PM
Feb 2016

I was especially struck by that the day of the CBC PAC endorsement. So many of those spoke seemed so angry. I couldn't understand that. Fine, endorse Hillary, but why be so nasty about it? That's what I don't get. I know people say it's just politics, but things just seem so over the top this year.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
34. Supporting Clinton isn't enough. Sanders has to be completely discredited...
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:45 PM
Feb 2016

Otherwise, other people might get "the wrong idea" and promote progressive policies themselves.

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
9. Agreed.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:53 PM
Feb 2016

They're putting all their hopes and dreams on Hillary, a person currently the subject of an FBI investigation. What happens if something really negative happens . . . in October? Does Trump end up being elected unopposed?

JI7

(89,252 posts)
13. establishment like dnc cnc pp have been attacked
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:00 PM
Feb 2016

The reality is that among democrats most people are not angry at the party and mostly blame republicans.

The anger is mostly on the republican side.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
12. america will not elect a pacifist/conscious objector to be president
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:59 PM
Feb 2016

the conservative machine will eat bernie alive....and there is nothing that machine can throw at hillary that hasn't been thrown at her before

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
15. I disagree
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:03 PM
Feb 2016

They elected a lot of draft dodgers -- including Cheney, Bill Clinton and many others.

And Bernie wasn't approved for conscientious objector status.

And he's not a pacifist. he is just against stupid wars.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
42. Old meme that does not work. And there is something that the machine hasn't thrown at
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:00 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary yet. It's called impeachment.

BreakfastClub

(765 posts)
22. I really don't think Bernie could have been made into an acceptable
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:34 PM
Feb 2016

national candidate. I'm not saying that to be mean. It's just the truth as I see it.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
27. That's not how it works, I'm afraid. The Democratic voters have rejected Sanders
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:33 PM
Feb 2016

People just prefer the other candidate.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
30. A perception shaped by the crony system
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:38 PM
Feb 2016

What I was suggesting that the leadership at least allow a level paying field for Bernie or whomever might have come along.

But Clinton was the "presumed nominee" from the day she left her job as Sec of State.

The fix was in.

And many of those don't "prefer the otehr gal." They've been told she is more "electable" despite the evidence. It's hard to refute the against the decision of the poobahs and pundits.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
51. Just hold your goddamn horses
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:13 PM
Feb 2016

Ninety-seven percent of the Democratic voters
have not voted yet.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
29. Electing a Jew isn't as "historic" as electing a woman.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:35 PM
Feb 2016

And all that seems to matter to the Democratic Party anymore is how "historic" our candidates are.

napi21

(45,806 posts)
31. I'm sure that'ps true, BUT, neither major party ever does that. Look ay how the
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:39 PM
Feb 2016

Pub Party leaders are treating Trump! Hell, THEY'RE trying to figure out how they can get rid of him! I'm a Bernie supporter and I'm still hoping he will win the nomination, but it's fair that the Dem Party is not backing him because he always stated that he WASN"T a Democrat, he was a Socialist Democrat. Thank God he always caucused with the Dems. His vote has helped pass a lot of legislation over the years, but for now, he, with our help, has to get this nomination done without the leading Dems.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
32. If it hasn't been Sanders they'd have ganged up on someone else methinks
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:42 PM
Feb 2016

They're totally invested in Clinton. They never wanted a level -playing field.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
36. He caucused with Dems, and chose not to be a 3rd party spoiler
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:51 PM
Feb 2016

I'm not sasyoing they should have rushed to support him. But at least foster a level playing field.

And I suspect if a very progressive Dem, such as Sherrod Brown or Warren, had darde to challenge Clinton inc. they would have had the long knives out for them too.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
44. You're missing my point...It wouldn't have mattered who...
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:03 PM
Feb 2016

Clinton would have demonized them and the Democratic Establishment would have put their thumbs on the scale.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
48. I'm not so sure. They didn't do it in 2008, and I'm not sure OM was discriminated against.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:07 PM
Feb 2016

I think they have been quite accommodating to a non-Democrat who (at least some of his supporters) had hurt the party's chances in the General Election.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
37. Sanders chose not to be Democrat through most of his career.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:51 PM
Feb 2016

He caucused with Democrats and was given important committees. He was given a great deal of support during his career.

What ever rough edges he has are his by choice.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
43. I continue to hear from Sanders he does not have a PAC but the nurses PAC
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:01 PM
Feb 2016

continues to back Sanders. We know about PACs, not under the control of the candidate because they are not supposed to be but don't deny they exist.

Sanders has a big problem of not having established a relationship with members of congress, this was something he could have done in his twenty five years. Again this is not the responsibility of the DNC to establish these relationships. He is responsible for selling his candidacy.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
45. Oooooooooooooooooooooooo Those awful nurses again
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:04 PM
Feb 2016

It would be nice if you developed a sense of equivalency in such things.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
52. Thejhn how can you compare a group of progressive nurses to SuperPacs backed by
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:14 PM
Feb 2016

Big Business and Wall Street and other powerful and reactionary forces?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
54. You know the truth, even Sanders has been fund raising with Big Business and Wall Street.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:20 PM
Feb 2016

We know how this operates, Sanders knows how the game is played also. Perhaps he could take this time he is using to promote himself and tell how he is going to respond as president, giving this information over and over about Big Business and Wall Street is not registering with new potential voters. He has not convinced me Big Business and Wall Street is "bad" while fund raising with these same groups. There are more PACs also, it isn't just the nurses. There is more than one union who has endorsed Sanders and I can assure one of those unions has a PAC.

Skid Rogue

(711 posts)
53. That's a real problem.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:20 PM
Feb 2016

And I think there's some resentment there by the Democratic Party folks. If Bernie had decided to switch parties outright, made an official announcement, run as a Democrat for his Senate seat, it might have helped a little. Also, if Biden had chose to run, I think the endorsements would look very different.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
59. With Biden they might have at keast given a more kevel playing field
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 08:40 AM
Feb 2016

He's popular and in a special category. The groups like lanor would have probably gone his way or stayed heutral

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
58. Absolutely!
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 08:35 AM
Feb 2016

The party has really dropped the ball. Voter turnout ought to tell them that they're not doing something right.

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