What a strange thing for a progressive democrat to say.

You might want to check which forum you're posting on. This is DU. Here, we are all democrats first.

Have a nice day, whomever you are.

It is a sad truth that here for many Sanders supporters Hillary is just not an option.

It is a fact that I work against.

they don't care - they can survive a Trump presidency just fine.

scary fact

You support the worst candidate possible and get pissed we don't support her.

you will not see me sitting on the sidelines in a pout because my candidate lost. I understand what is at stake for my kids.

If she steals this from us with her Super Delegates, or shenanigans That's IT. If she wins and they don't screw us over, I will vote for her, but I won't like it.

I doubt it will be that close, especially in a two person race.

win delegates

Since we are at, or even past, the tipping pint on global warming, only RADICAL policies to cut carbon emissions will have any chance of stopping cataclysmic disasters (super droughts, massive famine, civil unrest over drinking water, loss of trillions of dollars in property when sea levels rise 6-9 feet, and the massive pollution that will result when cities like Miami go under water).

I can count on HRC to tell the Koch Brothers and Exxon to "cut it out". I can count on Bernie to say stop it NOW and act to put an end to it..

Now Bernie may fail, probably will fail, but HRC's policies are guaranteed to fail. So, there is only one way to vote. Since Trump will accelerate the problem, and HRC will only slow it down a decade at best, Bernie is the only chance we have.

and the choice is between her and Trump? Are you in a safe blue state where you can exercise a protest vote or do you live in a contested battleground state where you vote will matter?

if it isn't Bernie, the country is doomed. All that changes is the time scale.

The time for "pragmatism", "lesser of evils", and all the other usual excuses for making immoral decisions has passed.

I thought revolutionaries were tough and persistent.

Way to promote unity behind the candidate you support. You are part of the problem.

I think my post was spot on. Besides, if he is giving up why should I be concerned about unity viz a viz that particular poster? Seems like a waste of my time if he is taking himself out of the game.

I get what you mean there. Not the "I thought you revolutionaries...." see what I mean?

I can't speak for him. But for myself, if Bernie's position becomes untenable I will turn my focus to the reform of our party, that I believe not longer represents it's members. I believe that the news of Bernie's demise are exaggerated. I, moreover, believe that these reports are based on an intention to break the spirit of the opposition. Now, I believe that a political revolution has many fronts. And I don't agree that Bernie's side will just roll over. There are many progressive voices running for office that share his view. Bernie will also remain in the Senate. I Serously doubt that defeating Bernie is the same thing as defeating the movement that he represents. I just refuse to light my hair on fire at the behest of those who want to see him fail anyway. And, to be clear. Revolution is a term used to stir the passion of his followers. What Bernie really represents is tradition. The traditional values of our party. Add in a little Debs philosophy, and voila! The new deal has new life breathed into it. It has to be, or we will find our society at a tipping point similar to the era of FDR. FDR wasn't a revolutionary. He saved capitolism. He also proved that we could enjoy great prosperity along with dynamic and strong social programs. After the war these programs made an era of prosperity that lasted 3 decades, until the corperation's big takeover (which is also not new in terms of history) began to erode what the new deal provided. A strong middle class.

I was referring to the poster I was exchanging posts with. Sorry for the confusion.

Copy that. Have a nice day!

You are asking me to be "pragmatic" and back the person who will compromise with an enemy who has every intention of destroying us and everything we believe in.

good thing Trump can't do any significant damage to the fabric of American society in that time.

supporting my guy, not yours, since yours simply leads me to the same destination by a different path.

We have been trying to turn the wheel left for over40 years and all we have manged to do is turn slightly less hard right and gently apply the breaks.

If it makes you feel better to blame me, and others like me, go ahead, knock yourself out.

or deliberately distorting them, our conversation is done.

I have zero intent of voting for Trump. And it is accusations like this that drive people like me away.

and will vote my conscience, but there are always plenty of Democrats worth voting for downticket. Staying home is not an option.

It is always reasonable to vote your conscience.

it is not a black and white thing. What if voting your conscience hurts those less fortunate than you?

And I highly doubt she cares. Three of us in my family were prepared to vote for her until she got in her own way. Now, she has work to do to earn those votes...in Florida where we just moved.

I assume that is because you can survive his policies just fine.

We may as well just rename the party "Lesser of Two Evils" because that seems to be the preferred method of getting votes. "Well, it's better than a Republican" is not a campaign slogan or a way to earn a vote.

can you at least understand that eight years of Trump will be devastating for many in America?

My vote is important to me and sacred. I will give it to those I feel have truly earned it. If they are exceptionally good, I'll even go help get out the vote as I did for Obama. I know it is hard for you to understand but I will not be held to a loyalty oath because someone claims they are a Democrat. If you can't work for votes, you deserve to lose.

If your sense of worth is greater than the plight of millions of desperate people then you are unreachable.

Pouting implies butt-hurt silence from the sidelines.

I don't intend to remain silent. I intend to make the point, as loud as I can, that you cannot expect us to support you if you embrace Republican/Conservative ideals. I can't afford a lobbyist to get my message across, so I will do so in the only way I have: with or without my vote.

We aren't abandoning DU, DU is abandoning us.

because I doubt you would vote in a manner to hurt yourself or those around you.

I love DU but remembering the purge that went on after the last Primary i have been afraid to post my feelings which mirror yours.Last night for the first time I KnRed an OP that laid out similar sentiments but did so only after i saw a fellow DUer had done so ahead of me. I can not imagine this place without that nobel lady nor would i even want to remain here if she was purged. The time for openness within our party is upon us. Hopefully DU will allow for it because i will miss the place if not.

I do not think Clinton will be an excellent president. Her foreign policy decisions worry me very much based on her record. Her acceptance of big corporate donations and ties to Wall Street worry me very much. Her stance on trade and continual flip flopping depending on which way the political wind is blowing worry me very much.

I get your lesser of two evils argument. But I highly doubt she'll make an excellent President based on what she has done.

yet, not surprisingly, it is not for some here.

... But the problem is there is very little difference between Hillary and a conservative Republican at this point based on her economic views and especially her foreign policy philosophy. In the end, we are no better off with a Hillary Clinton presidency than with a Cruz or Trump presidency because they both and in the same result: more war!

"Well, who else will you vote for?"

because we certainly can't put the welfare of the country before your personal feelings, now can we?

And it is YOUR decision which dooms us, not mine. You have convinced yourself Bernie can't win, rather than seen that your candidate is morally compromised and the country no longer has time for "incrementalism"

The country is bleeding out in terms of infrastructure, economics, environment, climate, education, and race relations:

Trump believes stabbing the patient repeatedly will stop the bleeding (true after a fashion).

Bernie believes in kicking the idiots out of the OR, so the trauma team can begin immediately blood transfusions and stabilize the patient in advance of major surgery to treat the patient's self-inflicted wounds.

HRC believes that by reaching out to the other side, engaging all parties and obtaining buy in from all the stake holders, we can come up with market-based solution about who to award the contract to, on a non-bid basis, to paint the operating room just as soon as we can come to consensus on a color, with a group of people who only see black and white.

so why do you want to pick fast?

or quick death.

Hmmmm.....

I am not one for being cynically manipulated. Again, one candidate says "Vote for me, we can fix it!", the other says, "Vote for me, you have no choice."

Accuse me of voting for Trump?

This is why you folks can't understand us. You have the same "your either with us or against us" mentality that BushCo had.

most likely because a Trump presidency won't effect you that much. Others are not so lucky.

if Trump is president. But that doesn't entice me to vote for HRC.

is how rapidly we frogs in the pot will be boiled. But boiled we shall be in either case.

And I live in a state that has only failed to go Democratic once since 1956, and that was in 1972, the soon-undone Nixon landslide. I can vote my conscience.

In some ways I often think that if we get tRump and things get a LOT worse, we might actually get a VERY Liberal President after tRump is impeached.

and some of his support on the left is unwilling to accept more of the 3 way incremental shift to the right and will chose to write in Sanders or vote for Jill Stein. The young OWS/Bernie contingent hold no allegiance to the Democratic Party.

You may not want to accept this reality but it is a reality non the less.

In Groundhog Day it took quite a few iterations before Phil Connors learned anything meaningful

rather than vote for the dem nominee whether it's Sanders or Clinton.

Too much is at stake for that take-my-ball-and-go-home pouting. If the repugs get to appoint two, maybe even three of four Supreme Court judges the country would be screwed for the next two generations because of petulance.

But the left is tired of being sold out. Some will see it your way and some will not.

maybe it will help you better understand what's going on from another perspective

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511318288

Some just will not vote for the dem nominee if it's not their candidate.

I say simply that that is unwise to the extreme with SCOTUS seats at stake.

If Trump or Rubiobot or Cruz gets to make those nominations I don't have to tell you that that will set voting rights, womens' rights, immigration reform, campaign financing reform, and everything all back to the 1950s.

They'll be able to draft up any regressive piece of legislation they want, pass it, and SCOTUS will rule it Constitutional if challenged.

Hell AAs might be riding in the back of buses again, women working and having their own jobs and money? Forget it — barefoot and . . . well, I won't repeat that repugnant phrase.

but i will not argue that the possibility of a republican admin is frightening.

the thing is that maybe those willing to take the party further to the right should open their eyes to the possibility that the best way to prevent a GE win by the GOP may be to move the party to the left.

to be to the left or right but how much to the center to appeal to the vast middle of the electorate.

That's unfortunate but it's American presidential politics.

Trump is already signaling shift to the center with his Bush dynasty killing, nationally televised statement that W did not keep us save, and with his Planned Parenthood defense that they do many good things, except abortion.

Bernie actually can beat the GOP. She is the Nader this race.

Don't even try that old sorry excuse.

Nader screwed the country with his egotism and stuck us with Bush and Afghanistn and Iraq and the busted economy and the debt crisis and on and on and on.

She's gonna lose the GE and probably badly, and the more she alienates the left in her party the worse her defeat will be...

then Trump will be our next President.

She was corrupt, cunning, calculating and a win at all costs cheat?

Wouldn't these qualities(?) play out in a GE to allow her to win by any means necessary?

as we have seen in 2000 and 2004.

How will he combat it?

She has lies and shenanigans. Cheating may not be a concern on her team, but it is for ours.

Sanders supporters simply will not fall in line behind a corporatist. Her economic and foreign policy positions are identical to Jeb Bush...she's a pro-choice republican. Then there's also her history of lies, corruption, and incompetence.
The Third way has dragged the party so far right it's nearly indistinguishable from the establishment republicans. Then there's also the lies, smears, and cheating by her campaign, and the DNC putting their thumbs on the scales to help her out. That has only further alienated the Democratic left. At this point, the Democratic left is much more close on the political spectrum to the Greens than the RW leaning DNC establishment which is republican lite. A great many Sanders supporters will gladly shift to Jill Stein rather than vote for Hillary.

And she has not been effective with them.

Didn't you get the memo?

Just off the cuff and for starters...

She expects Sanders voters to automatically support her, even though she doesn't support them or their interests? She thinks she's entitled to those voters? Who the hell does she think she is anyway?

I was fine with voting what ever democrat, but am tired of being told how stupid I am for not supporting her fully. I am stupid or boy crazy or lazy or dumb or what ever. Personally, I think that in the GE, Clinton will have a real challenge because so many democrats as well as republicans are programed to hate her by the media. I talk to people of all political persuasion and I hear "any one but Hillary" all the time. from democrats, from tea party from general republicans. It would be nice if her campaign was not so insulting to people who are not supporting her at the moment. Being insulted by all her representatives is not a good idea.
this is my two cents and I own it. I was undecided in the primary but was pretty much decided by her campaign statements. PS, I also don't care about the e-mail or benghazi or what ever, but do care about the TPP and trade policies of this country and especially care about the H1B visa program which was involved in my lay off from my last job where they replaced me and my entire department, job is still in the US, but using lower paid imported workers.

The personal attack on Sanders the day after the first debate, spinning his speaking style into a swiftboat sexist attack, showed all too clearly where Clinton's campaign was headed. They don't want the party to grow, they want it to coalesce around their 2008 Loser.

went to where the boys were in voting, i.e. supported Sanders only for that reason. where have you been?

I guess I missed that one. Things get stranger every day.

Just read the crap they post here about "Bernistas." There's one thread in the Hillary Secret Clubhouse on DU looking forward to the day when all the "Bernistas" go away or get "shitcanned" by the moderators.

Be careful what you wish for.

Logically, it makes no sense for my vote in November to be influenced by what some random and largely pseudonymous zealots post on an Internet message board.

Psychologically, however, being called "unhinged" etc. certainly sets up in my mind an us-versus-them-mentality that makes it harder for me to "switch sides" (i.e., to vote for Clinton after having voted against her).

What's striking to me is that the only theme more common among the Clinton supporters than their denigration of Sanders and his supporters is their repeatedly expressed certainty that Clinton will be the nominee. You'd think that, if they really believed that, they'd already be looking ahead to the general election. They'd be trying to build bridges instead of walls, as it were. Alas, Trump is not the only one ignoring that sage advice.

Speaking of Trump, I certainly expect to vote for the Democratic nominee despite what I read here. Whether the GOP candidate is Trump or anyone else who's remotely conceivable as their nominee, he'll provide ample reason to vote for the Democrat, warts and all. If Clinton is the nominee, I can use one hand to hide her name while I vote with the other hand, thus telling myself that I'm voting against the Republican rather than for anyone.

HRC will get the majority of his Dem supporters, but the Indy supporters may just sit out the election.

That is what I believe will happen.

"We came, we saw, he died (chortle)" is right up there with "Bring 'em on!" and "Mission accomplished!" All she's lacking is the flight suit.

For another, she is steeped in corporate money and influence.

For another, she is hip-deep in the institutional racism of the private prison industry.

For another, she is an architect of the TPP.

I can go on. As far as female presidential candidates go, Jill Stein wipes the floor with Hillary from a progressive policy point of view.

Why wouldn't Hillary's people support a true progressive ?

He's a triangulation-free zone

progressive - not a puppet. Hilary will not get my vote.

If you want my vote, you prove to me that you are a true Democrat and you stand for true Democratic ideals. In this campaign, Hillary has alienated me and other Bernie supporters and , along with her background and her current stances, she currently has not earned my vote.

For military intervention in Syria, willing to discuss limits on abortion as long as there is a 'life of the mother' exception, lacking in judgement (IWR, lies about snipers on the tarmac), and because in her judgement it was ok for her top aid to work SIMULTANEOUSLY for her at State Dept, and the Clinton Foundation. Which happened while the Clinton Foundation received huge donations from countries that SecState Clinton was allowing to purchase weapons systems....

Oh, I dunno, I guess it's all okie dokie because she's Hillary & it's her turn, goshdarnit all!

But she does not get my vote, ever.

We either beat her in the primaries or we brace ourselves for President Trump. Or President Rubio.

no matter who gets our nomination.

The country is browning more and more as we speak. Democrats outnumber them.

Romney won nearly 70% of the white vote and still lost handily.

The repugs can no longer win the presidency depending only on white voters only with their messages of "export 12 million immigrants to Mexico and build a border wall", "ban Muslims from the country", "continue racism towards blacks", "cut healthcare for everyone", "continue the war on women and LGBTs" "cut taxes for the rich".

No, that crappola is not going to fly just as it didn't in 2012 and 2008.

The Obama coalition of African Americans (97% for Obama in 2012), Latino Americans (71%), Asian Americans (73%), progressive whites (at least those that won't take their ball and go home if it's not Sanders), women, LGBTs and native Americans will win it again for the Democratic Party nominee (Clinton or Sanders) no matter how many pessimists and naysayers post negative crap on DU.

Trump is a blowhard extremist and Rubio is a Robot. Cruz just reiterated the call to export all immigrants (even though he and his father are immigrants), and it's been reported that the repugs are already pressuring Kacich to drop out so they can get behind Rubiobot to try and stave off Trump. Thank God for Christie for exposing Rubio for the lightweight robot he is. All we have to do is run an ad of him panicking and resorting to his repug talking point over and over and over and over and over to beat him.

With Trump we just run ads with him calling Mexicans (the second largest voting block in the country) rapists and criminals.

Do you guys really think that extreme, nutty, racist crap can beat either Sanders of Clinton? Please stop the conceding to the repugs tone already.

God!

She'll bring out the Republicans in record numbers. They HATE her. A lot.

Couple that with the fact that a good percentage of Democrats don't trust her, and she is just about the worst candidate we can nominate.

That's some hatred.

Sanders got more votes from Latinos, her supposed 'firewall'.

AND, that race has zip to do with the General Election.

Last edited Tue Feb 23, 2016, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)

for the racist Trump or the automaton Rubiobot?

Some repugs are but most people are not.

We Dems outnumber them.

The Obama coalition of African Americans (97% for Obama in 2012), Latino Americans (71%), Asian Americans (73%), progressive whites (at least those that won't take their ball and go home if it's not Sanders), women, LGBTs and native Americans will win it again just as in '08 and '12 for the Democratic Party nominee (Clinton or Sanders) no matter how many pessimists and naysayers post negativity on DU.

This is the reality we're facing: