...despite the bigoted deflections labeling people raising issues of sex and race as 'racebaiters', and the like.

When you have no defense, attack. That's what you're both doing here, attacking me for posting this article. Weak.

I guess you wouldn't want people turning a blind eye to alleged racism and sexism to vote for your candidate, would you?

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Bernie is far from "squeaky clean."

..,just remember, you folks are supposed to be the spokes of his political revolution.

If you don't want to be called out, don't do stupid shit.

But no one is running a campaign against them. I am so fucking sick of the Hilary demonizing us for not supporting her. Is she going to expect us to then vote for her after this?

It's pretty clear why Bernie has better general election numbers than Hillary's. Hillary is toxic.

...there's no end to the demonization of Hillary supporters.

Witness the campaign against John Lewis and Jim Clyburn.

By the way, Hillary didn't do the reporting on this, so your deflection fails.

Hillary has been running a fucking scorched earth burn all the bridges primary campaign. She has lost a lot of votes in the general election with that.

When I mentioned I was a Sanders supporter here and on FB I was pretty much deluged with comments from Clinton supporters that I was sexist, misogynist, racist, a Trump supporter, a Randian Libertarian ... I was called pretty much everything except a tax payer. No one wanted to discuss the issues, or why I preferred Sanders to Clinton. They just wanted to label me, and tell me to shut up.

Sorry, bigtree. The Clinton camp is pretty damn vicious from where I am standing. And committed to the notion of fact free debate. Shall we debate the meaning of the word "is" again? That's about where we are.

Back in June, I had little hope that Sanders would win the nomination. And I was pretty sanguine about voting for Ms. Clinton in the general election. But Clinton supporters and the actions of the DNC have convinced me that would be a mistake.

You guys are authoritarians. And I will not submit. If ya don't want to be done dirty, don't play dirty. And if ya play dirty, don't whine when someone plays dirty back.

Trav

But as the OP so eloquently demonstrates, once a Hillary superdelegate is bought they're virtuous enough to stay bought.

If she wins the corrupted primary, We'll never hear about her again after November.

I really don't think that Clinton forced the Sanders campaign to shoot itself in the foot in this instance. This is not the way to get superdelegates on your side. After throwing them under the bus, you don't pressure them into seeing things your way. That tactic is a big mistake. You can't make people agree with you.

Apparently, Sanders had no idea that this was going on. Sanders should reprimand Weaver and Devine and other senior staff members for not managing the "enthusiastic" troops better. It seems at times that things are really out of control.

Campaigners are like salesmen. You don't sell a car or an idea by force. You use gentle persuasion, civility, and common sense. That also works with colleagues in government. Dialogue, not badgering, is the proven best method. People don't like to be bossed. As bigtree says, "Don't do stupid shit."

I don't have a horse in this race, but I hate to see supporters of either campaign acting as their own worst enemies. Instead of being quick to blame others, one should examine his or her own conduct first.

I get it. You want us to not fight at all. You want docile liberals who never fight for what they believe in. That's what you want. How dare the liberals make a stand? How dare they!

"Why don't you accept the status quo?"

And then the occasional inevitably angry reaction is "counterproductive".

Arrogance at its best. This party will split if the elite goes on like this.

My conscience probably won't let me stay home, but it may not stop me from writing in a candidate.

like those here

...lots of that on display in this forum.

Or, as I call them . . "people who care about what is happening to the country" are fighting for it

whose vote counts as 10,000 of normal votes decides for us that they don't give a fuck what we think.

Of course we're going to be pissed.

It seems

how they are viewing it. Of course it is. Won't have anything to do with the Saturday night debates.

...I don't know any Sanders supporters personally; not friends, co-workers, neighbors, anyone.

I have had quite a negative experience with DU Sanders supporters though.

Why thanks, wouldn't want to sound angry or uppity.

has been an epic disaster.

...unheard of.

There's a lot at stake here, and people are understandably passionate. This is about fighting the wholesale corruption of the American political system. The depth of supporter's feelings may lead to impolitic behaviour, but it misses the point entirely, and perhaps deliberately, to call their motivations "narcissism". Posts like this, and the several after South Carolina results saying things like "well, Bernie's had his fun, but now it's time to get move on" reveal a surprisingly deep (and again, perhaps deliberate - who really thinks of any of this as "fun"?) misunderstanding of the conflict.

This reminds me most of Charles Krauthammer when he wrote about Bush Derangment Syndrome. A proper response to Krauthammer, I thought at the time, was to ask what one could say about people who are not upset by mass murder.

First, those farther to the Left wanted Elizabeth Warren. When that didn't happen, they gathered around Bernie Sanders. Initially, they saw Bernie as an alternative to Hillary and were generally respectful. Then Bernie won New Hampshire and the attitude changed. Now Hillary supporters are DINO's and Third Wayer's. The sense I've received on this forum is that Bernie Sanders supporters look to Hillary supporters with total contempt. Now Republican talking points are being used by Sanders supporters to attack Hillary. Even this morning, I've heard the suggestion that Hillary can't beat a bigoted pig that refuses to disavow David Duke and the KKK. And of course, if Hillary were to win the nomination, then many Bernie supporters feel it necessary to communicate to us that they would never vote for her. This is the politics of personal grievances which is narcissistic IMO.

It has nothing to do with personal grievances. It's about people that have been disenfranchised for decades having seen a chance that now seems to be slipping away. There is no real way to make elected officials accountable in the American system - Ashley Williams showed us all how that works. Pledging not to vote for Clinton is using political leverage. If superdelegates realize that the Democratic Party may actually need the progressive vote - that people have decided they won't take scraps any more - that may be an ugly thing, and it may tear the Democratic Party apart, but without some serious leverage, most people in America will continue to be completely disenfranchised.

So just sit back and take it citizens.

The art of politics requires tact and diplomacy and time. You can't get what you want by simply demanding it. You can't force people to agree with you. You can't treat people who disagree with you like enemies. You can't get everything you want all at once and right away. Being respectful toward others and listening to others really works.

Energy spent attacking opponents would be better spent working hard physically to get like-minded people to the polls. You can't win an election from your keyboard.

The Berniebros (I am assuming many Sanders supporters would want to disavow them, so I use that therm deliberately) swarmed every post she made berating her for not endorsing Sanders to the point where she's had to turn off comments on the last couple of posts. She's now turned comments back on, but I don't envy her.

Some example of comments on a post about making a cake on Valentine's day, which was her mother's birthday:

"Dawn Jones She is not the person we thought she was. If she truly was what she has been portraying then she would have endorsed months ago. What are you waiting for, a promise of an appointment from the HRC camp? Stand up!!!!!"

" I WAS a supporter! Held signs and all,but I have been seeing a side of you that was not what I was fighting for. You haven't endorsed BERNIE,because you are not of the same beliefs! It saddens me to know ALOT OF US WILL NOT BE BEHIND YOU NEXT ELECTION FOR U. #FEELTHEBERN #BERNIEORBUST"

"Senator Elizabeth Warren, don't you think it's about time you endorse Bernie Sanders? Are you going to make a stand like Tulsi Gabbard did? She was brave enough to step outside the DNC and endorse the way she really feels. Are you? Is Mrs. Gabbard a stronger person than you? Are you just playing politics safe for your political gains?"

"ENDORSE BERNIE. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?????"

Badgering people just doesn't work. It is simple common sense.

The 1%er has been courting them for some time, thus Bernie's SUPPORTERS courting them is an awful, horrible, demented, unhinged thing to do...

When you "court" someone, you try to be nice to him or her. You make them feel good about themselves. You pay attention to their needs and concerns. You listen to them. You make them and not yourself the center of attention.

Winning over superdelegates is a great idea, but this should have been undertaken by Sanders himself a long time ago with diplomacy and tact. But, at this point and without approval from Sanders himself, enthusiastic supporters' trying to "turn" superdelegates with aggressive methods is bound to backfire.

should not determine the nominee...regardless

So, in the consistent effort to make anyone who supports Bernie Sander look bad, you're spinning out of control and flapping your arms again, waving, spinning while spit flies in the air.

Your ugly posts show that anyone supporting Bernie Sanders pisses you off so much, you have to routinely get on the changing table.

Get some Desitin ointment, will ya?

Do you really believe that your discourse is really effective? Do you really believe that it helps your candidate? Do you really believe that it reflects the civil and respectful demeanor of Senator Sanders?

At this point, the behavior of both Democratic campaigns saddens me. My only consolation is that the Republican campaigns are one hundred times worse.

All it did was the opposite of diffusing the situation. If I have to put everyone on ignore here, I will. I refuse to bother with these posts any more.

Also... Believe it or not, I don't think the Republican factions are worse. I think it's more entertaining to see what happens until it comes down to two people. Meanwhile, there's an underlying amount of disgust in the background, as each day is more crazy. The Republicans therefore will need a course of action if what happens to Donald Drumpf (said on purpose) leaves the R's leaving that party.

I deal with other forums, and during the 2016 election year, I've had my fill of that poster and others. Since it won't stop with them... I'LL STOP.

On Mon Feb 29, 2016, 08:09 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Change your underwear, big tree... they don't have to commit until the Dem convention
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1369964

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

personal attack

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Feb 29, 2016, 08:15 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No different than the attacks on Bernie's supporters, all day long. Hide all, or hide none.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is about as inappropriate as it gets. HIDE.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Most of the posts in this thread border on being 'personal attacks'. So why was this one post singled out?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

...but it's a good demonstration of the standard of discourse here at DU, so it's a good thing, I suppose, to let it stand in this thread for folks to see.

I think I've had enough of engaging in this kind of discourse... It can only slide further down hill. So, I'm gonna dis-engage and ignore the bait, which is little more than a form of mental masturbation!

Sanders supporter are not helping their candidate in this effort

Begone from this sacred campaign! Begone from taking the names of your betters in vain especially when thou knowest they paid BIG BUCKS and nuzzled many backsides for their positions! Begone from your efforts to thwart the ONE TRUE DEMOCRAT and her husband from ascending the golden stairs to their rightful places on the Golden Thrones! FIE on thee, followers of the false Democrat, with your Volvos and your breath smelling of elderberries! FIE on thee!

Had only you chosen to comport yourselves like the Saintly Supporters of the Future Queen and her consort, we could have forgiven you your blasphemy, but NO! You refused the olive branch extended by Brock the Benevolent and Podesta the Pure, and spurned the loving lashes of Schwartz the Sublime and the entreaties of Lloyd the Lovable! BEGONE and never let your Birkenstocks set foot on the Promised Land by the Potomac! BEGONE FOREVER, you devils, and return to depths of LOSER HELL from whence you came!

(But before you begone, don't forget to vote for Hillary in the General Election! THEN you can get lost!)

If true, it's a big mistake to do this. I've seen some of the things posted on Elizabeth Warren's Facebook page, too. Ugly crap. She will make an endorsement when a clear leader is obvious. She will endorse the candidate who will be the nominee, and nobody else until that is clear.

Badgering her won't make any difference. She's not someone who can be bullied, I'm quite certain.

Just a random observation.

He's on a roll.