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AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:53 AM Feb 2016

Bernie Sanders lost in a landslide in South Carolina—but his efforts may still not be in vain

Read the whole article if you can, it is long but very informative:

http://qz.com/626351/bernie-sanders-lost-in-a-landslide-in-south-carolina-but-his-efforts-may-still-not-be-in-vain/


Healthcare was likely a huge missed opportunity for Sanders. Almost all of the South Carolina Democrats with whom Quartz talked ranked improving healthcare (or simply keeping Obamacare in place) as their top one or two priorities. His single-payer scheme—no matter how pie-in-the-sky—could have been a big talking point for Bernie. However, the healthcare ideas most voters praised were Hillary’s, not his.


However, against formidable odds, at least one of Bernie’s political philosophies found a broader mark here in South Carolina. Though Austin Seals was still undecided when Quartz chatted with him yesterday, the freshman at Claflin said he was leaning toward Sanders, having been turned off by how tangled in the political establishment Clinton seems.

“Sanders can offer a different approach, which this country needs in these chaotic times,” Seals said. “What he’s proposing about education is very important to the future of our country’s growth.”


Of all Bernie’s policy proposals, free public education seems to be the one that sticks with young African-American voters (Clinton’s wants to make college more affordable, but not necessarily free). And small wonder; national data reveal that young African-American college graduates are much likelier than their white peers to be underemployed (meaning, unemployed or working only part-time due to a lack of job opportunities), based on analysis by the Economic Policy Institute. That makes student debt even more onerous.
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Bernie Sanders lost in a landslide in South Carolina—but his efforts may still not be in vain (Original Post) AZ Progressive Feb 2016 OP
Bernie can still beat the points spread in the end GreydeeThos Feb 2016 #1
Here is the kicker BumRushDaShow Feb 2016 #2
You've never heard Bernie mention the 51% unemployment rate jfern Feb 2016 #3
Repeating the unemployment rate over and over BumRushDaShow Feb 2016 #4
Well, Bernie wants $1 trillion in new infrastructure spending jfern Feb 2016 #5
Good luck getting that through Congress BumRushDaShow Feb 2016 #8
If the unemployment rate goes down jfern Feb 2016 #14
"Then even racists have to hire POC" BumRushDaShow Feb 2016 #15
What will address the problem? Discrimination in hiring--failure to hire--is the toughest kind merrily Feb 2016 #7
So that is the response? BumRushDaShow Feb 2016 #9
My response was to ask you what your thoughts are. merrily Feb 2016 #10
I'm not running for office BumRushDaShow Feb 2016 #11
I know a bit about construction trades. merrily Feb 2016 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author merrily Feb 2016 #6
Hillary is winning primaries in red states that Republicans will win in November imagine2015 Feb 2016 #12
Pennsylvania went for Hillary in 2008. auntpurl Feb 2016 #16

BumRushDaShow

(129,491 posts)
2. Here is the kicker
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:29 AM
Feb 2016

that Sanders and his supporters are not getting -

national data reveal that young African-American college graduates are much likelier than their white peers to be underemployed (meaning, unemployed or working only part-time due to a lack of job opportunities)


Meaning... given that when it comes down to black college graduates and white college graduates from the same school with the same majors and GPA, the black graduate will struggle with employment. THAT is not "economic" (although the result impacts economics for one group) and it has nothing to do with whether the college is "free" or is the most expensive private college in existence. THAT is prejudicial - i.e., racial.

In a number of cases, the white student is offered co-ops, summer paid or volunteer opportunities, and/or mentoring with subject-matter entities in order to build a pre-graduation resume to prepare them for the post-graduation workforce. However this is not available for or not aggressively offered to the black student. And when these disparities are pointed out, the schools may reflexively attempt "outreach" for the next year or so to purportedly "recruit" POC into these programs... But then they eventually default back to "normal" (all white) once the outrage dies down. This happens cyclically. "Likes" hire "likes" - i.e., those who they feel most culturally "comfortable" with.

So no matter what candidate - the problem is more complex and is something that needs to be addressed that has nothing to do with whether a college is "free", "low cost/subsidized", or full-cost.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
5. Well, Bernie wants $1 trillion in new infrastructure spending
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:38 AM
Feb 2016

That should create a lot of new jobs and decrease racial disparities.

BumRushDaShow

(129,491 posts)
8. Good luck getting that through Congress
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:44 AM
Feb 2016

Although I agree whole-heartedly with the concept, the reality is that even today, with the massive disparities POC deal with even being able to get into the very trade unions that populate the industries that would utilize such funding due to persistent racism in many locals (and if closed-shop, then the POC is automatically disqualified if not a member not due to their not wanting to be), and due to many urban school systems essentially eliminating the vocational training needed to even work in these types of fields, then POC are already starting at the bottom with nothing when it comes to infrastructure jobs. This is further exasperated by the dearth of trade apprenticeships for POC - such positions often directed towards the "family members" of those already in the industry (primarily white) FIRST versus to "outsiders", and these apprenticeships are essentially required to enter and advance in the trades.

Unless this is addressed, then like the past, the problems will continue to persist and infrastructure spending will continue to help everyone ELSE except POC, other than perhaps those who empty the porta-potties at the job sites.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
14. If the unemployment rate goes down
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:11 PM
Feb 2016

Then even racists have to hire POC. Also, the government tends to have requirements for percentage of contractors that are POC owned.

BumRushDaShow

(129,491 posts)
15. "Then even racists have to hire POC"
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:59 PM
Feb 2016

I want to put a rofl emoticon here but that would really be disingenuous.

I'm afraid that the reality would be the most perfect scenario for the racists (the caveat being that they have the "power" to implement and enforce their prejudice) and that is to "import" people (whether legally or illegally, which they have already been doing for some time) who would be defacto-designated as "honorary whites" for the purposes of filling labor pools, thus once again, skipping over the bane of their existence.

This is why the rest of the world scratches its collective head about U.S.-style racism. It is insidious because it changes its character (and rules of engagement) depending on the whim of the one who practices it, including the incorporation of South African apartheid-era policies (where the successive governments of SA got the idea from this country in terms of legal segregation but they added a category - "colored" to further divide and conquer). For example, there have been times when (brown) Hispanics were considered "white" (Caucasian) and east Indians as well. And there were times when both were vilified - essentially broad-brushed as "non-white" due to skin color. But at no time has the pheno- or genotypically (if discovered - see 1-drop rule) "black" (African descendent) ever been considered "honorary white" except for use in specific purposes to further divide and conquer, after which they were summarily dumped for another sucker willing to take on that role. Alternately, some, like our biracial President, will be randomly designated a particular hierarchical status, but one that the perpetrator generally felt would have the maximum negative impact in a particular situation because of the "taint" of his genetic make up.

The federal (and some state/local) government only has such set-aside requirements mainly due to EOs and in a flash, away those requirements can go.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
7. What will address the problem? Discrimination in hiring--failure to hire--is the toughest kind
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:45 AM
Feb 2016

of discrimination to prove.

BumRushDaShow

(129,491 posts)
9. So that is the response?
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:47 AM
Feb 2016

See post #8 for one problem that needs to be addressed to even allow POC to even be qualified for some of these jobs.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
10. My response was to ask you what your thoughts are.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:17 AM
Feb 2016

Your other posts cite training in trades and apprenticeships. I agree that training and education helps. However, you also state that African American kids don't get jobs at the rate white kids do, even if they are trained. I agree with that too. And that is what I asked for your thoughts on--failure to hire.

The issue of a white kid and an African American kid, equally trained, applying for the same job, being of equal training and education, but the white kid gets the job. Do you have any thoughts on how we remedy that part of it? It is indeed the most difficult kind of education to prove. If you have no thoughts, fine, but there was zero wrong with my asking if you did.

BumRushDaShow

(129,491 posts)
11. I'm not running for office
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:46 AM
Feb 2016

and I am not a legislator.

When the narrative focuses on "free college", my thought is how does that help those who perhaps don't have the interest or aptitude to go to college?

When a poster talks about "Infrastructure Jobs", then the question is, how does an AA compete when the trades system is "fixed" against them... And that "system" has nothing to do with the "DNC" or any of the current politicians?

To address this latter issue, in the past (and in many cases, currently), urban areas were forced to try to remedy this via "affirmative action" or "affirmative goals", etc., for hiring in the trades, which essentially becomes the now-ugly term "quotas". The "excuse" was always - well these individuals "don't have certification to work in the needed fields" (e.g., electrical, plumbing, carpentry, etc).

Perhaps legislation can be pushed for the federal government to create an organization (either standalone or under an existing DOL agency) that would sponsor or coordinate opportunities for trade certification, including offering trade apprenticeships, through to journeyman level, and even master levels. This would remedy one of the "excuses".

merrily

(45,251 posts)
13. I know a bit about construction trades.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:53 AM
Feb 2016

As you know, the discrimination in the trades has a long history.

In Massachusetts, the term is not quotas, but "set asides." Without them, women and minorities would not have had a chance at all. However, set asides are required only on state and federal projects and they apply only to minority or women owned companies, not to individual kids looking for a job.

In Massachusetts, set aside requirements are not limited to urban areas. However, if you show your project is in an area where no minority subcontractors can be hired, you can get a waiver.

I fully support set asides (for all the good that does, given I am not a politician).

I have no clue, though, what to do about failure to hire in the private sector. You can file a discrimination complaint, if you feel you've been discriminated against, but, as I said, that is the hardest kind of discrimination to prove.

Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

 

imagine2015

(2,054 posts)
12. Hillary is winning primaries in red states that Republicans will win in November
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:46 AM
Feb 2016

She won't carry the very red southern states in November and she won't win delegate rich primary states in the north and west after super Tuesday such as California, New York, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania.

And if she can't win those primary states she can't win the general election against any Republican.

And the south will pretty much go Republican. Remember, Obama couldn't win the south in 2008 and 2012 even with huge black voter turnouts.

Sanders is far from being out of the race for the nomination.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
16. Pennsylvania went for Hillary in 2008.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:03 PM
Feb 2016

I see no reason it shouldn't again.

California is currently polling very well for her.

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