No I feel guilty

Kudos for bring it up though!

Discussing it, nothing would ever get done.

Tuna sandwich wouldnt surprise me.

Accessing those documents tends to take longer, depending on your level of clearance. But, again, with the right clearance level, access tends to go pretty quick.

Amazing, in this day and age!

to the President of the United States? That is the shit that we are talking about that is well, shit, born classified.

And that was in one of the letters sent by Sidney Blumenthal, who incidentally had no clearance.

here you go

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-emails-idUSKCN0QQ0BW20150821

One of the early stories on this well crap.

Hillary was specifically told that she couldn't hire him by Obama. She then goes and sets up backdoor intelligence operation. Crazy stuff! That said, if you read his reports Sid has given sold info that reads like an NSA report.

I wonder if the feds will offer sid a plead misdemeanor for the crown jewels? Yes that is very much a watergate reference.

Hillary has just recently started talking about if there was classified info mishandled it wasn't her that did it. Meaning her staff and I know they are loyal but they gotta have ears.

saturday night massacre comes to mind. I have missed that one.

Have brush up 😂

I was thinking, they are on a timeline, political calendar. They were supposed to wrap this up in December, yes I remember that, they are adding people. I suspect they are going to seal the indictment.

This is either we indict, or we look worst than Nixon. Not enviable position. I think they will, becuase if they don't and Trump wins, he is going to make this the trial of the century.

then Comey will be forced to resign. Nasty business, enormous crisis.

and indict. The reason for the seal is that it could be a problem for the prosecution.

I might be wrong but I think that was the first time that was confirmed. It seems like things are definitely moving.

I also agree that the DOJ won't block indictment. IMHO Obama doesn't want that Mark on his legacy. Also Michelle and Valerie don't care for the Clinton's.

I wonder if they will give her a slap like a certain general...

It would end her run. I've mentioned that Hillary's situation is much worse. She gave the server to a company to host that wasn't approved by any means.

People for real have died on this one.

Only a fool would think that it wasn't hacked. The security on that server was so tight that multiple phishing emails got through with worms facing back to Russia, China, Germany and Isreal. And if you read the email chain to Huma, it looks like Hillary tried to open the zip! Crazy stuff

another person who had no clearance

Are livid? The more I think about it the more I realize that Obama won't let this slide. There'd be a revolt

On a side note. Now that the state has declared that all emails have been released. I think the FBI will compare them to what they have. I do think that is one of the reasons we aren't seeing any movement on the surface.
We need to remember that the judge ordered the St Dept to contact and coordinate with the FBI and the FBI told them it's not happening. There has been minimal if any contact between the two agencies.

god, we are still on that pesky calendar

I think some people will be having conniption fits lol

for the same exact reasons

Normal back and forth. Classified is the lowest classification and contains no sensitive info. It would be gridlock if we had to wait.

you have no clue... honestly,

Any material that mentions in passing a head of state is born classified. One with a fucking message to the president of the united state from the prime minister is classified. What the hell was Blumenthal doing having that material? Once again, sidney blumenthal was NOT an employee at the State Department nor did he have any fucking clearances.

By the way Jane, the mundane material like this, assuming it is that mundane, does not see the unclassed stamp for 25 years.

For shitty sake, I knew that was a big uh oh when I read the name cameron and the message, And all my experience is from fucking historical archives. So if I could tell, there is no excuse for her not to know, or her top level staff.

It is still considered sensitive and amalgamate data can reveal all manor of information. All government information is treated as if sensitive and not for public consumption until it has been approved for public release... usually through the agency PR person, and with the approval of senior admin.

Unclassified (FOUO) would be the mundane material you were mentioning.

it was "mundane" to her.

Very enlightening.

If that helps you sleep better.

You have stated it clearly - clueless.

A spokeswoman for one of the foreign governments whose information appears in Clinton's emails said, on condition of anonymity to protect diplomatic relations, that the information was shared confidentially in 2009 with Clinton and her senior staff.

If so, it appears this information should have been classified at the time and not handled on a private unsecured email network, according to government regulations.

in other words, it is classified the moment you type it.

People are in jail for a lot less than this. In fact, HUMINT assets have probably died due to this.

What is also amazing after reading this is the hubris displayed by the Obama administration with her at State over Snowden, who had more understanding in his little finger over what should be trusted to be shared and for what reasons in the spy network.

Just SAYING.

I find it striking that the e-mails Hillary had were not labeled, in clear violation of standard operating procedures.

Wonder if there are any remakes out there.

go to the bookstore and ye shall find them

and I am also a fan

Janey

There is sensitive and it goes from there

But you keep with that.

Same link

But the details in those "Classified" stamps — which include a string of dates, letters and numbers describing the nature of the classification — appear to undermine this account, a Reuters examination of the emails and the relevant regulations has found.

READ WHAT THE OP told you about a second ago.

For the record, many of the emails I downloaded from the FOIA room, and read... were also marked NO FOR, no foreigner. The articles is telling classified stamps, not what or which they are.

Try reading that carefully. They are not going to tell you every type of classification, The people Reuters interviewed, have what is known in the business as FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, and telling Reuters the significance of each of those stamps, puts them at legal jeopardy.

Of course you keep with hollywood, This shit has been explained a thousand times to you guys. She is in actual, for real, legal jeopardy and this is not a RW conspiracy. They will have to decide SOON, if they are going to charge.

Is the "Declassify on" date and the code next to it. If it was born classified the code would indicate 10 years after the date of the document. If truly retroactive it would be 10 years after the the date of processing. There's plenty of both types in regards to her emails.

Jesus H Christ... that had not occurred to me.

confidential no for

in there,

There are no documents marked classified anywhere in our government. They are labeled secret, top secret etc.

I was Nuclear Engineer in the Navy and all our reactor related materials where mostly Confidential with some being Top Secret. As Dept IT guy who handled all computers we had computers that where for Confidential+ documents only and anything that was on them was considered classified Confidential. Hell everything we did related to plant was deemed classified just so there was no question about it. If I made a word document with steps involved in shutting down a breaker for maintenance it was marked Confidential.

For Clinton to have a non sanctioned computer that had potential of getting a Classified document is a serious breach of security guide lines. But then again I was just a scrub military person and not one ruling elite like her.

a nasty man.

and he is a clinton loyalist going back to the 90s

...dissing someone who is conversing with you -without rancor, I might add.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

The way FBI is going about this, they might offer Sidney less time, or no time, maybe time served (and 24 hours in the local jail) in exchange for the Crown Jewels. That will test his loyalty. And I am sure a few others may receive a similar offer.

The FBI, unlike the Congress, does not play games. But they are on a political timeline.

...with different rules for SecStates. Notably, no SecState is going to be prosecuted for slackness.

I don't think anything alleged about Clinton's handling of information is worse than what must have been done routinely by her predecessors. Political appointees with little or no experience with classified information aren't going to make the "best" decisions, especially on the still relatively new frontier of e-mail.

But I'm all ears if this gets around to specific charges.

But if you are ever involved with classified material and screw up you can be toast. It is serious business with potentially severe legal penalties. The casual treatment of classified material has ended a lot of promising careers. It may not seem fair, but it is the law.

When I was in Nuclear Power School some training books where misplaced and they came into all our dorms and went threw all our lockers/drawers for hours trying to find them. And they where Confidential and really was based on crap you could get on any college campus in a Nuclear Engineering book. But since some of it had a few numbers like water pressure and temp it was blanketed classified.

is going to be prosecuted for slackness?

Has always been the weakest link concerning classified.

that unless you have ever had the pleasure of knowing how this shit works, is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. The only reason at this point I give then a "pass" is that this has been explained by more than a few people here, in ways that will not get anybody in trouble.

The emai I referred to in my answer to Janey is one I actually downloaded from the FOIA room and I turned to my husband and went oh oh. But we both have a clue.

As to the tuna sandwitch... yup if that working lunch includes sources and methods.

the ship of state is the only one that leaks from the top.

from 1966. Do you think I can get rid of those now?

All work related correspondence produced or exchanged by government employees belongs to the people. It doesn't matter if its classified. It doesnt matter if the email was the White House' dinner menu. It belongs to the people. That's why the correct email address for any government business always ends in ".gov".
Everyone who ever sent her work related email to her "@clintonone.com" address knew, or should have known, that it was illegal to do so.

Whatever it was at the time it was sent, it didn't need to be sitting on a private server.

It's not as if these emails were all sent on the same day. Was there not an awareness that emails sent before were now classified and sitting on that damned server? Was there no concern?

....but she ordered staff to circumvent the law by doctoring classified documents by copying the text to fresh "paper" that did not have the official marks that would prevent transmission of the document.

Willful alteration of classified documents to avoid the restrictions that preserve/guarantee secrecy.

I've said it elsewhere, but it bears repeating here. Hillary supporters have grown immune to the facts of this because they are so used to right-wing smear jobs, that any negativity toward her is automatically rejected. She literally can do no wrong to them at this point.

There will probably be the typical superficial arguments about something classified after the fact, or a mention of the right-wing judicial watch group, and so on. It doesn't change the facts. Classified materials were mishandled. There are many people serving jail sentences for less right now.

For those that have handled classified materials the facts are obvious. I know there are some technical aspects, but my god. There are 100+ FBI employees investigating this, in addition to DOJ personnel and so on. She deleted over 30,000 emails before handing things over. Does none of this stand out to Hillary supporters that she just might have done something wrong?!?

but the media has done a terrible job of explaining how the system of how the handling classified material works. Of course, most of them are clueless too.

it is a catch 22

As you know, if you read about, let's use a fictional novel, the Red October leaving Murmansk in the New York Times... or for that matter Pravda, I got a funny story about that one, that is third hand knowledge. But if you actually sit down and write the story and have the NYT publish it and you are a first hand knowledge, you can go to jail.

This is why a lot of the folks that looked at that material for Reuters did not go into any of the meaning of the stamps.

Now here is the funny story, Gulf War II, I read it on Pravda, and sent it to the Senator from Hawaii that the Russians were sending a sub to the Gulf. Sub to the gulf on the front pages. So during the hearings, I am in Hawaii, they are not that late, on CSPAN. the Senator asks Wolfowitz about the Russians sending a sub to the gulf and whether they were worried about it. You'd think wolfie was just hit on the gut. He immediately of course involked CLOSED SESSION.

So the Senator took the print out and told him no cigar, since the Russians were not making any secrets and it was on the front page of PRAVDA ENGLISH EDITION. I have never seen Wolfowitz so dang crestfallen

But that is why you have not seen a competent nuts and bolts story on American papers. And quite frankly I do not trust wikipedia to be completely correct.

about the actual technicalities about this .

That you won't see a single Hillary supporter indicate that there might just be some small legitimacy to the email scandal without just shrugging it off as nothing

If someone has access to raw intelligence, that person is responsible for correctly classifying whatever is passed along. I haven't handled any classified information since it was print on paper, but I assume there is a way to attach electronic headers, etc. when the material is originated. How did all these classified messages get sent to Clinton without first being classified? I don't see how it's possible that people are sending messages to her without classifying them. Were they leaving classification to the recipient? Is this allowed now? I don't see how. Where did all these messages come from? Why aren't the sources having their feet held to the fire?

Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 02:18 AM - Edit history (1)

For example, communication between the Secretary and an ambassador may of itself warrant a classification. The people should know that their correspondence would merit classification and they must use DUE DILIGENCE. The very act of communication on a private server may be a security violation if the contents of the communication could be classified.

Apparently Clinton thought some of the information she was receiving was classified
hence the need to verify the classification status of that message before forwarding it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clintons-emails-final-batch-released/story?id=37281987

I can understand how somebody with Presidential ambitions might want to protect their high-level communications from prying eyes that may be connected to the opposition party.

I can also understand how somebody could develop a certain sense of elite privilege and immunity after almost ten years of living in a state governor's mansion, eight years of living in the White House, six years of rubbing elbows in the U.S. Senate, and being on close terms with many of the biggest movers and shakers in business and government including the President.

I had a top secret clearance 40 years ago and nobody I worked with would have dared to talk about work outside a secure area, much less put anything in writing and pass it around in unsecured channels.

There's no substitute for good judgment.

If this was still the Bush Admin, we'd be rolling out 500+ rec OPs about how bad this was.

The "confusion" comes from the fact that it was during a D admin with the current D superpower candidate.

people mishandle classified information *all the time*. it is routine and commonplace and rarely are people dinged in any way for it.

yes, they train you that a single violation can land you 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. and it's true, it can. but compared to the actual incidence of mishandling of classified information, such sentences are extremely rare.

for a couple years i held a secret level classification. after an exercise we met some p-3 fighter pilots who participated in the exercise and they regaled us with story after story, dumping *huge* amounts of highly classified intel for which they absolutely knew that none of us had any "need to know" and few, if any, of us had the requisite clearance level (top secret, probably compartmented as well).

because that's the reality. no one is going to go after fighter pilots the navy has spent millions to train for technically violating the law on handling classified information for telling a story to people who had clearance, but not at the right level.

and that's merely one small example of things i witnessed, never mind the many more stories i heard about sloppy or cavalier handling of classified material.

and if you think about it, this makes sense, because many laws are not enforced 100% of the time for all sorts of reasons.

i'm not saying the clinton situation is exactly the same, of course the details are different. what i am saying is that it's not enough to merely point out that someone technically mishandled classified information because that's as common as jaywalking and usually rather less consequential. in order to know whether or not one should care, many things matter, such as motive, the natural of the classified information, whether or not national security was genuinely at stake, etc.


another problem is that the government is very quick to classify information and very, very slow to declassify it. as a result, a lot of "classified" information is actually very well-known public information by now, or information which, if you heard it, you would say, "really? that's classified? why?" as a result, innocent mistakes are very easy.

sure, something like current troop locations is obviously going to be classified information. but other things are not at all obviously classified, so if you're creating content, it's easy to slip in some classified information without realizing it.

so let's not get all riled up about the letter of the law in this area, because it's not nearly as cut and dried as one might think.

mixing up some stories from the early 90's. i wasn't "in" the navy but working for a military contractor.

i participated in a couple of military exercise, one in a military facility and another on board a destroyer. i met both p3 pilots and fighter pilots. all the pilots were very loose with the stories.

my point is, yes, there are cases where on minor incident gets you prison time.

but there are many more cases where multiple, repeated violations go ignored.

But contractors also seem to live by different rules, to the never ending frustration of service members.

where i worked, people were *far* more worried about getting fired for a security lapse than getting prison time.

I made that as a general comment

1. Hillary is running for commander in chief and if the example is that she doesn’t have to follow the letter of the law. That would be bad precedent.

2. Electronic spillage is in a whole other ball park than what you are describing.

Manning was not the 'top secret' material that normally would result in the charges filed against her. They argued she deliberately excluded anything that was classified as 'top secret' and that the material she did release, as you pointed out, some of which was marked 'classified' was a result of OVER CLASSIFICATION.

Gates eg, stated that no real secret information was released by Manning. Add to all that the fact that Manning is a Whistle Blower and in democracies Whistle Blowers are generally treated differently than people who are acting for other reasons, on the 'public's need to know v the government's need to keep things secret from the people'.

Hillary, when asked about the Manning case stated that 'We MUST protect our Classified Information' agreeing with the prosecution.

Now take Hillary, she was SOS. One of the offices that has access to the most senitive material and one of the MOST responsible positions, unlike Manning who was merely an analyst.

So by her own words, mishandling classified information IS a crime. She didn't excuse it on the basis of over classification as Manning's attorneys tried to do.

However, she has NOW used that defense herself, that the government overclassifies material and therefore much of what is being called 'classified' shouldn't be.

...over a few casual mistakes. There appears to be a pattern aimed at circumventing the classification system with Clinton at one point giving orders to do so. It seems incredible to me that Clinton could be such an amateur. If that's what it was then she is a danger to us all. But I suspect she has so much to hide she took these risks. I've little doubt the FBI is after what she was hiding rather than amateur time at the State Department.

And we need to remember this is NOT a bunch of nutball Republican congress-creeps. This is OBAMA'S Dept. of Justice!

We'll see how that plays in a general election. My guess: Not well. I know I'm fuckin' pissed about her carelessness. She doesn't care though. All she cared about was that it made things convenient for her, security of the country be damned.

They've picked their candidate, so FACTS be damned.