I think that there is a bigger gap between Sanders and Clinton than there is between Clinton and Trump.

Trump believes in neither.

How can we know? She changes positions by the hour.

Thank you in advance.

She can say all kinds of things but if she has not integrity than why should I believe anything she says?

She is great at stealing Bernie's best lines and passing them off as her own but I prefer the real thing to a poser.

When has she shown an antipathy to the rule of law and small d democratic values, like Donald Trump has done on numerous instances?

Thank you in advance.


P.S. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

The very fact that she is still pro-cannabis prohibition proves that she is against liberty and individual freedoms.

The fact that she supports NSA spying shows she is against the right to privacy.

Using war only as a last resort would also be a democratic value. She has voted in favor of wars of aggression and has supported arming terrorist and brutal dictators around the globe.

I support marijuana legalization. That being said, if you believe opposing the legalization of marijuana makes one an enemy of the rule of law there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

Ditto for the NSA and voting in a democratic polity for an authorization of force.

There is no victim and a crime with no victim is not a crime. Nobody is being harmed by the distribution and use of this very benign plant except the people who are prosecuted by our government. It is a racist law passed out of fear and racist propaganda used to oppress the poor and minorities while making billions of dollars off the books in the black market for many nefarious pursuits including pursuits by our own government.

NSA and Authorization of Force again it goes back to the old play book of fear and racism and bigotry to pass these. Clinton herself played a part in the fear campaign to push for these things.

Her support of totalitarian dictators over seas only points more to her contempt for small d democracy. Her friendship with the Saudi's and other fascist totalitarian regimes in the middles east shows she cares little about human right or the rights of women. Militarily arming these dictators and their proxy terrorist armies further shows whose side she is truly on. Her own.

her and try and get the con elected?

Or are you going to vote for her, even work for her?

There are many contests left and besides she may be indicted. If she is the nominee you won't see me around here posting much. I will be looking to the Greens.

Sanders and Clinton agree on like 95% of the issues.
Trump and Clinton don't agree on much at all.

If a vote is going through regardless of how a particular person might vote, some will vote against it to keep up appearances with their constituents. Also in reverse, they may vote for something they don't want when they know it will easily pass without them. Now one of the candidates is more likely to participate in this manipulation style. Can you guess which one?

but there was just that one little vote on the war . . . . . . that wasn't such a big deal.

wedge issues.

Have you read the responses in this thread?

In regards to economics, Republicans are closer to Clinton than Sanders for sure.

Your OP did not cite anyone or anything, and as such it does not call for sincere response. It calls for responses like this: Huge difference, she has a decent hair stylist. Big difference, he looks silly in a pantsuit. That sort of thing, because your question is meant to draw bullshit, that desire should be gratified.

I personally would like to vote for a more liberal candidate. But I understand that that's not a priority for many people here.

Bryant

The majority of those differences result in a favorable comparison for Hillary, by my standards, too.

However, "not as shitty as the other guy" just can't cut it for me any more. I'm not positive it would even if my state were actually in play in November...but that's not likely to be a question I have to answer in Oregon.

Clinton and Trump are part and parcel of the 1% and Bernie is a man of the people.

Bernie is an honest champion of the causes that matter to 99% of the people.

Hillary is not. No one knows what she really stands for except maybe her sponsors at Goldman Sachs.

Trump is a Circus Performer who actually says some truths here and there like Bush lied us into war and that we should have universal single payer healthcare. Obviously his stance on people of different faiths and immigration make him completely unacceptable.

Go with Bernie and be sure your interests are represented and championed.

as he is nowhere close to being a Conservative.

One difference is that it appears he was against the war in 2002.

Another is that she is not a racist.

Trump is opposed to TPP -- Hillary was a big fan (but today says she isn't and we don't know about tomorrow.)
Trump is in favor of single payer -- Hillary is opposed
Trump is against invading countries that don't post a threat to us -- Hillary not so much.
Trump is opposed to letting refugees into the country -- Without Hillary, there wouldn't be so many refugees.

I would never vote for trump, but that anti invading thing sure makes him look better than her. Too bad he's a raving racist. I imagine being wealthy enough, he has never had to learn when to hold his tongue.

woman who wants desperately to be President and is much more cunning and sharp than Trump. I don't believe she is a bigot. I do believe she is an entitled corporatist who can't find a war she doesn't support, or a crony she won't place over the American people. If a policy benefits her rich and entitled friends, she's all for it. And she will change her position any way the wind blows.

Trump is not cunning. He's much more obvious.

Arkansas just look up the Southern Poverty Law Center. I wouldn't hold it against her but then again she holdes 1 or 2 votes on guns againsg Bernie so. I'm not sure people are gonna see the fine print here.

Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

especially short term. Long term, the differences really don't matter much, the country continues to move right in either case. You can scream SCOTUS all you want, but the truth is the GOP will not allow any Dem to appoint Scalia's replacement.

We are going to remain locked in eternal war regardless of whether it is Trump or HRC. The Death penalty will continue, the economy will implode, and the poor and middle class will be required to foot the bill and shoulder the blame. Meanwhile, the planet will continue to heat up, and the next mass extinction will begin. Neither Trump nor HRC are willing to stop this since it would require radical action that would cost very important corporations to have lower profits, and this JUST.CANNOT.BE.ALLOWED.

We are cruising toward the abyss at 60 mph. One candidate will jam on the gas, hit the nitrous boosters and light the JATO rockets. The other will gently break the car, so as not to upset her wealthy passengers, and then will drive sedately into the chasm.

The destination is the same, no matter which one wins, it is just a matter of the route and the drive time.

😔

That is how I see it.

"Boy, The Hillaryites Sure Don't Like It When The "Kitchen Sink" gets thrown back at them."

" Hey, Nothing Stops Her From Exploiting Any Issue
Why should Obama's camp play the rules? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

" Because I'm The One Who Invented the "Kitchen Sink" Strategy-Oh wait, that was Hillary."

"Fact: Bill Clinton Had Extra Marital Affairs
Fact: Such affairs badly damaged his presidency.
Fact: If Bill Clinton gets back into the White House and is discovered having another sexual affair, it will badly damage Hillary's presidency.
Those are facts. Deal with them."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5013012

I get that opinions change, but man! 'Hillaryites' throw the kitchen sink. I have to agree with you there, now that you are hurling the sink along with them, rather ironically.

It's almost as if policy has nothing whatsoever to do with her support

for logic coming from people whose support is apparently not always grounded in what they really believe or whose beliefs are always expressed in intense verbiage no matter how temporary or transitional those beliefs really are. Many DU posters lost all credibility with me not for changing their minds but for using extreme language and negative attacks first as a Hillary opponent then as a Hillary supporter.

The OP here postures hand on hip 'Seriously, that's how you think?!?!?!' but in 08 he was typing up denigration and attack on Hillary and on her supporters, nonstop. As so many of her supporters were.

Telling, too.

Sorry, but Bernie's a carpet-bagging Democrat who just joined the party and wants to be its nominee for president without doing a damn thing for the party to earn it.

Also, if Hillary got the nomination in 2008, I would have supported her over McCain. I don't hold grudges like a child.

about you, your indulgence in language that so harshly condemned her and her supporters in 08 and the same indulgence foisted now as one of her supporters. 'Hillaryites throw the kitchen sink, don't play fair'. What's that got to do with Bernie or with Hillary in 08 or 16? That's you calling her supporters names and saying they have no ethics. Now you strike the same exaggerated postures while favoring her and bellowing about Bernie supporters.
Basically, between 08 and this year, you have insulted both Hillary and Bernie and all who support either of them. And you do so while presenting yourself as some bastion of reason and logic. It's breathtaking to behold, but hard to really fathom how a person could do that and expect others not to howl with derisive laughter.

And it is not just you, lots of her 'supporters' were full tilt Hillary haters in 08 'she's a liar, too stupid to be VP'. Things I'd never say about her, you already have said about her, over and over.

That you cannot see differences between two campaigns. In politics, alliances change and grow over time. Hell, there were folks on here who hated Gore in 2000 to now love him because of his work on climate change.

With all that said, I'm going to return to my original post. Do you not think that there's a difference between Hillary and Trump?

Stop while you're behind.

He's bringing up issues that were settled long ago and are not relevant to this election. Back in '08, I supported Obama, and I was right to do so. This is a different year. Different issues. Old scores have been settled.

I'm sure that I can find old posts slamming Gore, but now praising him.

apparently without trying too hard.

It's all good though. After tonight, we'll all focus on the general election and put these primaries behind us.

because HE changed. If Gore version 2003 had run in 2000, he would have won hands down.

I get it, you're a "pragmatist". However, you seem to have rejected "pragmatic" arguments back in 2008, but not today. Curious.

Yes, because we see the damage that either a Hillary or Trump win will bring.

I have seen a multitude of reasons for supporting Bernie but I have only seen vague nonsensical ones for supporting Hillary like "I just think she is the best candidate, go Hills" or " she has the most experience". Which is bullshit. Being first lady while your cheating husband is president is not actual experience. Her SOS tour was a clusterfuck of bad decisions, manipulations, and selling of fabors.

So no, she is not that much different than Trump except that Trump is outspoken in his racism. Both are liars. Both are manipulators, both change position depending on the day and who they are talking too.

Hillary is smarter but that only means that she will convince people that what she is doing is for their own good and the best deal she could get. But either way the rich will be who is served and more of the "people" will go under.

"2. I Live in NY and She Doesn't Support Me

neither does Schumer. NYers were against this war in Iraq, and our representation in the Senate didn't vote the way NYers would have preferred. I'm not saying that I wouldn't vote for her at all. If she runs against Pataki, Guiliani, or Bloomberg in 2006, then I'd support her.

But, she's not going to get my support in Dem primaries because of her Iraq vote and other votes that do not reflect the people that she represents."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2788034

Hillary has since apologized for that vote, and Obama made her his Sec. of State. Am I supposed to hold a grudge against her forever like some sort of child?

Also, did you read this key sentence in my post?:

"I'm not saying that I wouldn't vote for her at all. If she runs against Pataki, Guiliani, or Bloomberg in 2006, then I'd support her."


So, she apologized for the Iraq vote, and I am supporting her now.

But your argument about party loyalty betrays the intellectual bankruptcy of your position.

but I am seeing on twitter today some of the usual idiots in the emoprog punditsphere are starting to lampshade how a vote for Trump might not be the worst thing in the world...

Let's make Bernie our nominee

But to their discredit it shows they can be bought....

Sorry. You are making it too simple for yourself.

There's a bigger difference between Bernie and Hillary than Hillary and Trump.

BTW, what are Hillary's positions on things? She changes her stance every day, it seems.

trump and clinton are on the wrong side of the issues i care about most. sanders is on the right side.

the matter of degrees of difference is of little concern or interest to me and frankly irrelevant. that i cannot make the statement that clinton is on the right side of the issues that matter to me and that this puts her in a different category from sanders, and categorizes her with trump (who i also disagree with) speaks for itself.

Economic policy: The Vulgar Talking Yam (VTY) is a plutocrat who occasionally makes populist grunting noises. She's a dedicated servant of the plutocracy in everything she does and has been since she was on the board of Wal-Mart. He's rich enough to say "screw you" to Wall Street if he thinks there are votes in it and actually follow through on it. Whatever she says, she will faithfully and diligently serve Wall Street's interests.

Foreign policy: Both appear to be belligerent, imperialist neocons. The VTY may be a sufficient egomaniac to see himself as the "consummate deal maker" and actually more open to doing something constructive outside of the neocon box than she would. Frankly, I don't trust either of them.

The VTY's race baiting is appalling. Her race-pandering makes me queasy.

Both are well-established as liars who will say anything; the VTY accidentally on purpose, Herself to do anything to advance herself by any means available. I have no idea if either one of them has a single core principle beyond the acquisition of fame and (more) money.

I think either one in the WH would be a very bad thing for this country and continue the march toward serfdom for the masses that has been the long-run plan for a very long while now.

There's my straight, honest, un-flip answer and why I support Bernie Sanders.

I agree with everything you said. I suspect Hillary would get much more done (in a bad way) than Trump, who I think would largely be an ineffective, undisciplined blowhard as President.

We are on a path to destruction as a country. In a non corporatist can't win the Presidency and take back the government for the people, I don't think it matters much who does.

Go away.

and middle class. I would say they are very similar.

They both want an over arching big brother government that controls our lives.

Trump says he was against the Iraq war though, and Trump does seem to be more of an isolationist. Where as Clinton is a globalist that believes we should arm terrorist and brutal dictators when it is in the interest of our country. She believes in manipulation of other countries and their governments and electoral processes I don't know where Trump stands on this.

They would both be very bad presidents and very bad for our country. They would both continue the bilking of the middle and poor classes for the benefit of the extremely wealthy.

They would both keep our healthcare in the hands of private for-profit corporations.

clearly, there are at least some differences for what i hope are obvious reasons. (name, spatial position, genetics, social security number, etc.)

depending on one's outlook there may be a lot more than the obvious. or not.

even in this thread, i don't see anyone claiming "no difference", at best that's a moot point.

however, the more important question (and one that doesn't get asked often enough) is, "Do you honestly think there is enough difference between Trump and Hillary/Bush and Gore/McCain and Obama?"

i suspect many here, possibly including some HRC supporters, would like to see more differences, to see those differences highlighted and promoted, as they will be in the general election.

right now DU has primary fatigue, with the HRC peeps bitching at the Sanders peeps and vice versa, because the differences getting attention are differences between HRC and Sanders (or sometimes, their respective supporters rather than the candidates themselves). we can, at least, look forward to a general election in which our partisan house will not be divided against itself.

hillary - nothing

For instance, Trump has long called the TPP the lobbyist-written job-sucking trade agreement that it is, and vowed to tear it up. Hillary sold it as the "gold standard" for years, then a few weeks before the Democratic primary said she was against it, while the US Chamber of Commerce says she's just saying that for now, and will revert to being for it later, and she takes no offense at this. So that's curious, and makes one wonder Which Hillary is for and Which Hillary is against.

There are differences the other way too. Mostly in that Hillary is not pandering to intolerance. But the truth is that the Clinton campaign is delighted that Trump is setting the bar so low for you (don't pander to intolerance) that they feel all they have to do is set the bar one inch higher, and they can count on you to ignore what she says on health care (Bernie Sanders' plan for universal Medicare would dismantle Medicare), trade, Iraq, Libya and future foreign invasions as the country keeps right on marching to the right, and that you won't look at her positions and record. It keeps people from thinking about things like the fact that the Republican front-runner has the position on trade that the Democratic Party should have (and at least paid lip service to in the past - watching Hillary and Obama fight over who would renegotiate NAFTA the hardest in 2008 was quite the belly laugh... as to what happened next, well, we all know).

They both lie shamelessly, unless you think Hillary was sleep-deprived for the weeks she told tales of being under Bosnian sniper fire until the video came out. So there are things they have in common.