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pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:11 PM Mar 2016

One BIG mistake the Democratic Party is making by not backing Bernie

This is an anti-establishment election. That is why Bernie and Trump are getting such support.

If the Democrats run Clinton, an establishment, corporate candidate, then ALL of the anti-establishment vote will go to Trump.

If Bernie is the nominee, he will get most of the anti-establishment vote.

There are more independents than either Democrats or Republicans. These independents aren't wed to either party. A number of people have reported that many Sanders supporters have said they will vote for Trump rather than Clinton. That means they are more motivated by anti-establishment sentiment than party affiliation.

It's simple common sense. And that is why he is winning in all the head-to-head polls against all the GOP candidates.

81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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One BIG mistake the Democratic Party is making by not backing Bernie (Original Post) pdsimdars Mar 2016 OP
DNC has not been noted of late for 'common sense' 99th_Monkey Mar 2016 #1
Scalia's death introduces a different dynamic. oasis Mar 2016 #2
Right -- and a lot depends nichomachus Mar 2016 #5
I think that's their main point right now pdsimdars Mar 2016 #8
Obama can nominate all he wants, the GOP ain't having it. oasis Mar 2016 #10
Bernies pick for SCOTUS RobertEarl Mar 2016 #11
Time to put your Starbucks gift card to use. oasis Mar 2016 #13
No RobertEarl Mar 2016 #27
By all means, have at it. oasis Mar 2016 #31
Harry Reid is pushing a Republican for Scalia's seat. stranger81 Mar 2016 #23
No SCOTUS appointment makes it imperative for all true Dems to vote. oasis Mar 2016 #28
and I"m just suppoerd to fall in line with this SHIT? Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #39
Considering it's less worse than the alternative... scscholar Mar 2016 #77
Is this a trick Question? Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #81
That's just 13 dimensional chess right there. revbones Mar 2016 #52
Ummm...no it can't. That's dangerous thinking. Bubzer Mar 2016 #63
'If we are going to nominate someone who 50% of our people can't stand, elleng Mar 2016 #3
Not just cannot stand...but also will not tollerate. Bubzer Mar 2016 #64
ellen, you must be closing in on a hundred for this quote restorefreedom Mar 2016 #72
Every single poll where Sanders supporters are asked if they sufrommich Mar 2016 #4
I second that! nt fun n serious Mar 2016 #6
And there you have it nichomachus Mar 2016 #7
I know Hillary supporters tend to ignore or lash out at things they don't want to hear pdsimdars Mar 2016 #12
doesn't look like a total anti-establishment election from results so far DrDan Mar 2016 #9
Your assumptions have zero merit RobertEarl Mar 2016 #14
and more ignored the "anti-establishment" message DrDan Mar 2016 #17
See RobertEarl Mar 2016 #21
the backbone of an effective movement is not "DON'T VOTE!!!" DrDan Mar 2016 #26
It works for the establishment RobertEarl Mar 2016 #32
"smart people" - define them, or better yet, define the others DrDan Mar 2016 #38
Smart people vote RobertEarl Mar 2016 #40
I can understand your frustration - your "revolution" is sure not bringing out the voters, is it DrDan Mar 2016 #41
Can't answer the questions? RobertEarl Mar 2016 #43
assume away - whatever eases your frustration DrDan Mar 2016 #44
It is an assumption with merit RobertEarl Mar 2016 #47
87% ignored bernies call to revolution as well. nt msongs Mar 2016 #18
Revolution is scary RobertEarl Mar 2016 #24
you are overstating your bravery - not much fear with walking into a voting booth and pulling the DrDan Mar 2016 #29
You're happy so few voted? RobertEarl Mar 2016 #35
Not much of a big picture person, eh? pdsimdars Mar 2016 #16
hmmm - wouldn't know it from the votes DrDan Mar 2016 #19
Anyone who ISN'T against the Establishment right now is part of the problem, Maedhros Mar 2016 #22
the message sure isn't turning out voters, is it DrDan Mar 2016 #25
Bernie's message is generating huge crowds. Maedhros Mar 2016 #34
campaign crowds and voting are two different things DrDan Mar 2016 #37
And Glamrock Mar 2016 #53
not in vast numbers . . . but more than her opponent DrDan Mar 2016 #55
True that Glamrock Mar 2016 #59
Oh this is not a mistake on their part. THey are big boys and girls nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #15
"Nature always finds a way" Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #30
And look at the response of the Hillary supporters pdsimdars Mar 2016 #20
"That is why Bernie (is) getting such support." wyldwolf Mar 2016 #33
The voters are deciding who our nominee is. MoonRiver Mar 2016 #36
Nominations are earned, not given away like "good job just for trying hard" sticker Tarc Mar 2016 #42
NH makes your statement FALSE RobertEarl Mar 2016 #49
NH is 94% white, i.e. not representative of the nation Tarc Mar 2016 #74
The subject is the SC vote RobertEarl Mar 2016 #75
It's not just SC, son Tarc Mar 2016 #79
Of couse she'll win some delegates there RobertEarl Mar 2016 #80
Some woman said she voted for Clinton because she doesn't know bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #45
Hang on a minute... Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2016 #46
+1000 MoonRiver Mar 2016 #48
Your assumptions are without merit RobertEarl Mar 2016 #50
Yep, Sanders's supporters know better than all the good Democrats lined up to vote today. Hoyt Mar 2016 #51
87% in SC RobertEarl Mar 2016 #54
Hey, I get it, you think you are the only one that supports Democracy and peoples' best interests. Hoyt Mar 2016 #57
I do seem to be in the minority RobertEarl Mar 2016 #61
they are a lot "smarter" - I was told that upthread DrDan Mar 2016 #56
I've seen some of the attacks on you. Cracks me up that everyone else is so stupid, anti-Democratic. Hoyt Mar 2016 #60
Yes people who actually vote ARE smarter RobertEarl Mar 2016 #62
A number of people have reported ... GeorgeGist Mar 2016 #58
I have been saying the same thing!!! This is why Dustlawyer Mar 2016 #65
Any so called Bernie supporter that would for trump beachbum bob Mar 2016 #66
I'll risk it. NurseJackie Mar 2016 #67
glad you qualified that with "one" stupidicus Mar 2016 #68
Totally concur marions ghost Mar 2016 #69
It doesn't matter Turbineguy Mar 2016 #70
It's an outsider year and Hillary is the ultimate insider. Vinca Mar 2016 #71
He'd get ALL of the Anti Establishment vote? retrowire Mar 2016 #73
They don't care, it's her turn Politicalboi Mar 2016 #76
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #78
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
1. DNC has not been noted of late for 'common sense'
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:20 PM
Mar 2016

DNC is all-Hillary, all-the-time in the PRIMARY, and nothing else matters to them, literally.

They don't even seem to care about winning the GE, it's all about Hillary taking out Sanders...
beyond that they don't seem to care much.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
5. Right -- and a lot depends
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:43 PM
Mar 2016

On who Obama nominates. If he nominates a corporatist Republican, then the Dems are toast. Their only campaign argument will be "Vote for the woman because she's a woman and it's her turn."

oasis

(49,387 posts)
10. Obama can nominate all he wants, the GOP ain't having it.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:47 PM
Mar 2016

It'll come down to the voters in the GE to determine the fate of SCOTUS.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
11. Bernies pick for SCOTUS
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:47 PM
Mar 2016

Will be one of the best ever. We simply must make sure he is president.

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
23. Harry Reid is pushing a Republican for Scalia's seat.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:03 PM
Mar 2016

Remind me again how voting for a Democrat helps shift the balance of power on the SCOTUS?

oasis

(49,387 posts)
28. No SCOTUS appointment makes it imperative for all true Dems to vote.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:06 PM
Mar 2016

Sandoval will not be allowed to get a vote in the senate for Supreme Court.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
39. and I"m just suppoerd to fall in line with this SHIT?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:19 PM
Mar 2016

AYFKM?

Reid, DWS, the DNC, Hillary just settle for No, We Can't. When did the Democratic Party become the (Republican surrogate) Democrat Party?

The DNC and "Democrat" is already leadership is already irrelevant.



Bernie is the Only way out of this.

 

revbones

(3,660 posts)
52. That's just 13 dimensional chess right there.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:49 PM
Mar 2016

Nevermind that Obama has appointed republicans to positions before

elleng

(130,918 posts)
3. 'If we are going to nominate someone who 50% of our people can't stand,
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:39 PM
Mar 2016

we are going to lose.'

Marco Rubio

Goes for BOTH parties.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
4. Every single poll where Sanders supporters are asked if they
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:43 PM
Mar 2016

would vote for Clinton if she is the nominee,they overwhelmingly answered yes. Stop with the rat fucking.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
7. And there you have it
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:44 PM
Mar 2016

If you don't prostrate yourself before the altar of Mrs. Clinton, you are a rat fucker.

Typical Clintonian tactic. No wonder thinking people don't like her.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
12. I know Hillary supporters tend to ignore or lash out at things they don't want to hear
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:50 PM
Mar 2016

but I heard this on a number of shows when people were asked. It surprised the hosts that people said that.
It seems all Democrats want to believe that all good Democrats will vote for Hillary. But, as I pointed out, MOST voters are NOT Democratic or Republican but Independent.
You can lash out with your foulness, but that doesn't change one single fact. You ignore these things to your peril. I think desperate people cling desperately to their hard held beliefs and the Clinton voters seem to cling to their cult of personality.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
9. doesn't look like a total anti-establishment election from results so far
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:46 PM
Mar 2016

and your assumptions are without merit

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
14. Your assumptions have zero merit
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:53 PM
Mar 2016

It is an anti-establishment mood. The results from SC - a whole whopping 8% of Dem voters - does not mean diddly squat. In fact the majority of voters in SC ignored the election. IGNORED democracy and the opportunity to participate.

87% IGNORED the establishment's offer to vote. They said FU!

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
32. It works for the establishment
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:10 PM
Mar 2016

They don't want smart people voting.

Do you hear the DNC complaining about how many in SC didn't vote? Hell NO. They are happy there were so few voters. Are you? Why aren't you complaining? You seem happy there were so few voters.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
40. Smart people vote
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:21 PM
Mar 2016

Dumbasses don't vote.

It's crazy to not participate in democracy. Why are you not complaining about the 87% who did not vote? Seems you are happy they did not vote?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
43. Can't answer the questions?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:26 PM
Mar 2016

OK, it is left to me to assume you do not like democracy and are happy so few are willing to even vote.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
47. It is an assumption with merit
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:33 PM
Mar 2016

That you are not a fan of real democracy. Indeed your refusal to defend yourself gives that assumption a lot of merit.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
24. Revolution is scary
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:03 PM
Mar 2016

And it takes education to get over the fear. There were 4% who are very brave and very smart.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
29. you are overstating your bravery - not much fear with walking into a voting booth and pulling the
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:06 PM
Mar 2016

handle for your candidate

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
35. You're happy so few voted?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:12 PM
Mar 2016

Ever hear of the Voting Rights Act? Do you know any history of voting in the deep south?

You are full of assumptions that have no merit.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
16. Not much of a big picture person, eh?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:54 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie has huge enthusiasm and if you ask people who support him, they want a big change from "business as usual".
Same with Trump.
And while your narrow focus seems to be the preliminary election, the REAL game is in the general election. If Hillary is the nomination, a lot of those independent "change" voters will go for the other change candidate -- Trump.
I think that is why Trump beats her in the head-to-head polls and Sanders beats Trump by good margins in those same polls.
It's about the general election.
 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
22. Anyone who ISN'T against the Establishment right now is part of the problem,
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:02 PM
Mar 2016

because the Establishment is the problem.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
34. Bernie's message is generating huge crowds.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:12 PM
Mar 2016

Voters are notoriously under-informed and easily duped, so I can't speak to what happens at the ballot box.

George W. Bush had a 92% approval rating after invading Iraq. Half of those people were Democrats, so it's easy to see how they could support someone like Hillary.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
15. Oh this is not a mistake on their part. THey are big boys and girls
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:54 PM
Mar 2016

and kkmow exactly what they are doing. But they will get to live the consequences... the Sanders people and the progressives are not going away, in the sense that they will find a way.

Politics and physics abhors a vacuum

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
20. And look at the response of the Hillary supporters
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:59 PM
Mar 2016

much like the Republicans and Trump supporters, when they hear something the don't like, they just get vulgar and nasty.
I laughed a while back when some Hillary booster wrote a post about how you can't have an intelligent conversation with Bernie supporters.
Well, the kind of responses I see here are pretty much the "intelligent level" of the responses I have seen from them.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
42. Nominations are earned, not given away like "good job just for trying hard" sticker
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:23 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie has to convince the Democratic voters that he's the one for the job, and so far he is not doing that.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
49. NH makes your statement FALSE
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:40 PM
Mar 2016

So does Iowa and Nevada.

Now if you're going to hang your hat on the 8% of Dem voters in SC as being representative of anything and fall back on attempting to claim it represents the AA voice in the US you first need to explain why only 8% of the voters carries much weight.

Of course you can't and won't explain anything because the fact that so few voted is really quite embarrassing, isn't it?

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
74. NH is 94% white, i.e. not representative of the nation
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:18 PM
Mar 2016

I should know, as I kinda live here. Bernie winning his neighboring, mostly-white state is not a bell-ringer.

As the nation is quickly diversifying, Clinton making inroads with persons of color while still retaining the white vote is what is propelling her success.

As for turnout, that is why The Bern is doing so poorly in places, as the vaunted youth vote fails to show.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
75. The subject is the SC vote
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:01 PM
Mar 2016

And why 8% of the Dem vote there should be representative of anything?

Clinton is only up right now due to that 8% vote. Your claim that she is successful is without merit and is false in the face that she is not yet anointed as the press and many of yall were claiming she would be by now. In other words, nothing the H supporters have prophesied about her success has come true.

The record of those prophecies is zero, so why should we be
believe any more of that wishfulness now?

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
79. It's not just SC, son
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:39 PM
Mar 2016

Georgia, Tennessee, and many o the Southern Super Tuesday states that Clinton is going to cruise to 20+ margins in.

I'm sure whatever % they all come out to will be dismissed by you too.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
80. Of couse she'll win some delegates there
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:44 PM
Mar 2016

It's the deep south where they had to institute the Voting Rights act. The boot of the oppressors in the deep south is heavy.

You still haven't answered the SC question. Why are you avoiding that?

I know why.... you can't.

You're not a voice for anyone but yourself, right? Will you remind yourself of that the next time you act otherwise?

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
45. Some woman said she voted for Clinton because she doesn't know
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:29 PM
Mar 2016

much about Sanders. Why doesn't she go to his website to find out. They just vote and don't even know what they vote for except name recognition...really really stupid reason to vote.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
46. Hang on a minute...
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:30 PM
Mar 2016

"This is an anti-establishment election. That is why Bernie and Trump are getting such support."

Except that Clinton is getting significantly more support than Bernie.

"If the Democrats run Clinton, an establishment, corporate candidate, then ALL of the anti-establishment vote will go to Trump."

If that were the only issue, then yes. But it's not; even anti-establishment people often value "sane" or "left-wing" as well, and those who do will vote for Clinton even so.

"If Bernie is the nominee, he will get most of the anti-establishment vote."

This is not at all a safe assumption. Trump is much better at populism than Sanders is. And while Clinton would win overwhelmingly among the majority of voters for whom establishment/anti-establishment is not the only game in town, Sanders might well not.

The reason Sanders does well in head-to-head polls is simple - the GOP know he'd be easier to beat than Clinton, and so all their attacks have been focussed on her. If he were to win the nomination, he'd suddenly have to put up with what she's been withstanding for decades, and would melt.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
50. Your assumptions are without merit
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:44 PM
Mar 2016

Sanders has been blacklisted in the media and in the DNC. Level the playing field and give Bernie as much free time as has been given the others and then make your assumptions.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
54. 87% in SC
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:55 PM
Mar 2016

Did not line up. SC results should be ignored.

We shall see which states today are to also be ignored as not really giving a damn about democracy via its citizens not lining up to vote.

SC is a low bar which should easily be exceeded, but I fear most of the south states will challenge its rejection of participatory democracy.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
57. Hey, I get it, you think you are the only one that supports Democracy and peoples' best interests.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:58 PM
Mar 2016

I've also read some of you posts about the 87%.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
61. I do seem to be in the minority
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:05 PM
Mar 2016

I notice you have no complaints about our sick democracy. 87% is sick.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
60. I've seen some of the attacks on you. Cracks me up that everyone else is so stupid, anti-Democratic.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:03 PM
Mar 2016

Vinca

(50,273 posts)
71. It's an outsider year and Hillary is the ultimate insider.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:56 PM
Mar 2016

If we have a "midterm" kind of turnout, we're toast.

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
73. He'd get ALL of the Anti Establishment vote?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:58 PM
Mar 2016

I'm sorry, I'm an Anti-Establishment voter myself and I, along with many others are smart enough to know that Trump is also apart of an Establishment of wealthy elites.

Why the fuck do so many people misunderstand the usage of the term Establishment around here?! The Establishment is not strictly political, it is completely caste based. It has to do with the wealthy that have their hands in too many places.

So let's be clear, Hillary is Establishment, but SO IS TRUMP.

Bernie is the only Anti-Establishment candidate and this OP suggesting that Trump is anti-establishment is misleading. Sure there's a lot of people who see him as his own man that doesn't take money from anyone but the truth is... yes he does. lol Trump is shit.

Nuff said.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
76. They don't care, it's her turn
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:07 PM
Mar 2016

Country be damned. When The Donald trounces the Queen then maybe they'll see.

Response to pdsimdars (Original post)

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