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Should Bernie Take the Gloves Off in the Debate Tonight? (Original Post) Chasstev365 Mar 2016 OP
Mega yawn. nt OhZone Mar 2016 #1
Mega Rude Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #10
well,maybe mega yawn is her real life nickname? wendylaroux Mar 2016 #15
No, it's Ozzie for my middle name, Ozara. OhZone Mar 2016 #32
Bernie should hit his message for America HARD. Hortensis Mar 2016 #22
brilliant reply-- wendylaroux Mar 2016 #12
Could you possibly be any more of a condescending, petulant child? Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #30
Who the heck doesn't take donations? OhZone Mar 2016 #37
Well...that's certainly an improvement over that first response. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #42
Yes, we know that. OhZone Mar 2016 #47
I think he has, but why get dirty on Fox? I guess it's his only way forward if email BS Hoyt Mar 2016 #2
Fading away? Motown_Johnny Mar 2016 #3
MSM trumped it away all week, good puppies that they are. orpupilofnature57 Mar 2016 #9
Tonight's debate is hosted by CNN, so your message is flat out false. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #46
My bad. Sentiment is the same. Hoyt Mar 2016 #58
and your only hope is for a RW email farce scandal. Shameful riversedge Mar 2016 #56
In Michigan he needs to hammer on their contrasting records on trade deals through the whole debate BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #4
YES, it has been more of a detriment to him than MSM, the 1% and the fact people don't want orpupilofnature57 Mar 2016 #5
Yeah, time to kick butt. mmonk Mar 2016 #6
Bernie should probably wear hip boots olddots Mar 2016 #7
No nxylas Mar 2016 #8
we aren't there yet. And why should Bernie pull punches when Hillary hasn't? She Karma13612 Mar 2016 #20
Is Hillary the standard you want to aspire to? nxylas Mar 2016 #36
I think Bernie needs to clearly define the differences between them. He needs to be Karma13612 Mar 2016 #52
That would help Clinton KingFlorez Mar 2016 #11
" Crazy " Desperate " isn't pointing out facts, and by the way Harry did more for her than US. orpupilofnature57 Mar 2016 #17
Tonight's debate is not on Fox. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story, though! JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #48
Whatever, it was a simple mistake KingFlorez Mar 2016 #51
Yes. We're in this to win. Gregorian Mar 2016 #13
I think he's been hammering her trade record all week pdsimdars Mar 2016 #14
Glad to hear it BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #24
Well, he would have to put them back on first. nt Jitter65 Mar 2016 #16
What? orpupilofnature57 Mar 2016 #18
If plans are put out there to explain how to fix some trade agreements and if trade agreement were Jitter65 Mar 2016 #19
Yeah silenttigersong Mar 2016 #21
Hillary will be well prepared on trade deals Mufaddal Mar 2016 #23
If she tries to dismiss "stuff from 20 years ago" BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #26
I think a more effective response is to take that argument to its logical conclusion Mufaddal Mar 2016 #29
Bernie needs to point out the hedge phrases and qualifiers BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #33
One of the unfortunate things about the current debate format Mufaddal Mar 2016 #43
She just did it. Mufaddal Mar 2016 #60
I don't know, but I'm sure he'll do whichever Tad Devine tells him to do.... Tanuki Mar 2016 #25
See ya BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #27
You don't know, but your sure ? Think much ? orpupilofnature57 Mar 2016 #40
I don't know because I am not privy to Tad Devine's well-paid counsel. What I am sure of Tanuki Mar 2016 #44
He's not a former Monsanto CEO, so I hope Bernie does . orpupilofnature57 Mar 2016 #49
Bernie is very, very astute Merryland Mar 2016 #28
Should? yes! Will? He will point out their differences in no uncertain terms. But other than that, jillan Mar 2016 #31
While I admire that about him, he has to decide if he really wants to win or not BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #34
I completely agree. He should. But unfortunately that's not Bernie. That said - jillan Mar 2016 #38
If he does, it will show how desperate he is...nt SidDithers Mar 2016 #35
Yes truths are always better served, with bare hands. nt Snotcicles Mar 2016 #39
Why? He's already lost the race. Codeine Mar 2016 #41
He should. He should point out that polls show he's far more likely to beat ANY republican in Nov. JudyM Mar 2016 #45
I feel like this imminent victory in Maine Merryland Mar 2016 #50
I doubt it. DCBob Mar 2016 #53
I think that he should do what he thinks is right dana_b Mar 2016 #54
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #55
You mean the same old one note? itsrobert Mar 2016 #57
Bernie's gonna do great just being himself. Nyan Mar 2016 #59
He is Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #61
Yep! The crowd is not buying Hillary's answers. LOL! Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #62
The gloves are definitely off and I'm loving it! BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #63
Looks Like He Is Doing Just That! N/T WiffenPoof Mar 2016 #64
Hillary Got Her Clock Cleaned Tonight! Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #65

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. Bernie should hit his message for America HARD.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:07 PM
Mar 2016

I don't mean be easy on her, but make that note secondary to a positive vision that we can achieve for ourselves. People across the spectrum loved him for saying people don't want to hear about the damned emails. They want to hear what we're going to do for America. He should tell us big time! No one will stand and cheer more for crochety criticism of Hillary, but they will for a dream.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
30. Could you possibly be any more of a condescending, petulant child?
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:15 PM
Mar 2016

Way to represent for your candidate!

And the Hillary crowd wonders why so many of us aren't going to be there for their corpora-crat candidate (well, besides the fact that she is the corporate candidate). FFS...

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
37. Who the heck doesn't take donations?
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:24 PM
Mar 2016

And how many other candidates gave speeches when they were private citizens?

Most of them.

Good luck to Bernie without it. Not working too well so far.

Oh well.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
42. Well...that's certainly an improvement over that first response.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:30 PM
Mar 2016

But that's a hell of a low bar...

Since you responded with actual content,it behooves me to respond in kind. Of course everyone's taking donations. the critical distinction, however, is who are those donations from? Bernie's are from individual Americans, the overwhelming majority of them 99%'ers. Hillary's? Well...we both know the answer to that, don't we?

That Bernie isn't a business-as-usual candidate, beholden to massive corporate donations, is the entire point. If it is truly impossible to win without being bought by the oligarchy, then we might as well break up the Union right now and start over...because the common people are well and truly fucked.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
47. Yes, we know that.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:32 PM
Mar 2016

And we know he won't be able to fight the billion or two GOP juggernaut, but it's a moot point.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
2. I think he has, but why get dirty on Fox? I guess it's his only way forward if email BS
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:51 PM
Mar 2016

is fading away.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
46. Tonight's debate is hosted by CNN, so your message is flat out false.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:31 PM
Mar 2016

There is a town hall tomorrow on Fox, but that's not what you are talking about.

Maybe get your facts straight before flinging poo?

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
5. YES, it has been more of a detriment to him than MSM, the 1% and the fact people don't want
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:54 PM
Mar 2016

comprehensive discussions, Hillary is adroit at playing on emotions, until she's Exposed she will play victim/savior to the hilt, HISTORY and what side has she really been on at every turn.

Karma13612

(4,552 posts)
20. we aren't there yet. And why should Bernie pull punches when Hillary hasn't? She
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:05 PM
Mar 2016

could be hurting him for the general, but goes ahead anyway.

Can't have it both ways.

nxylas

(6,440 posts)
36. Is Hillary the standard you want to aspire to?
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:22 PM
Mar 2016

A candidate whose primary strategy largely revolves around depressing turnout? Yeah, she's really thinking ahead to the general.

Karma13612

(4,552 posts)
52. I think Bernie needs to clearly define the differences between them. He needs to be
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:47 PM
Mar 2016

forceful.

Avoid damaging her, but being forceful is a very very fine line to walk.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
11. That would help Clinton
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:56 PM
Mar 2016

Sanders going off on Fox News would be a completely desperate move. Going crazy when you are behind in the delegate count is a surefire way to look desperate.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
51. Whatever, it was a simple mistake
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:45 PM
Mar 2016

Regardless, Sanders going off and acting desperate is not a good look on any station. That never works for candidates who are trailing.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
14. I think he's been hammering her trade record all week
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:59 PM
Mar 2016

He has an ad about it, that she was for all those trade deals and he was against them and as a result of the trade deals 60,000 companies moved off shore

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
24. Glad to hear it
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:08 PM
Mar 2016

If Bernie can't win in Michigan with the difference in their records on trade, I don't know he can beat her for the nomination.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
19. If plans are put out there to explain how to fix some trade agreements and if trade agreement were
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:05 PM
Mar 2016

ever really explained to the voters in a way they could understand and relate to the voters might really be able to move their reps in Congress to make better deals. Having said that, trade agreements have been with us for a longer time than just since Bill Clinton's administration. Good paying jobs used to depend on markets that we could open abroad for our products. There is nothing inherently wrong with trade agreements properly enforced and leveraged. Just why do you think that small and large businesses fight hard to get the government to make trade deals?

silenttigersong

(957 posts)
21. Yeah
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:06 PM
Mar 2016

He needs to rhetorically pummel her on every issue she has flipped flopped on.Then he needs to throw in the ambiguity concerning her 30,000 deleted emails and ask why should we take her word for emails being personal.Plus the issue of him being a one issue candidate he must say you have to start with corruption or the economy will continue to be rigged.They got the Goldman we got the Shaft Followed up by Its too late for incremental change as far as Climate Change.Why we need our young people to have access to higher learning rich or poor because only critical thinkers can help build a sustainable economy!

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
23. Hillary will be well prepared on trade deals
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:07 PM
Mar 2016

I have zero doubt about that. My guess is she will take the same line on them as Iraq: namely, obfuscate: "Sure, we can talk about trade deals from 20 years ago all we want, but what we need to be talking about is solutions for the problems we face now."

Which is a lot like during the most recent Republican debate, when it was: "Sure, we could talk about whose to blame for the water crisis in Flint, but what we need to talk about are the solutions."

Here is where Bernie could deliver some powerful hits, IMO:
-If he anticipates whatever prep she is doing for the trade agreement questions and has a KO response
-If he finally connects the dots on the Walmart portion of his stump speech to Hillary & Alice Walton (he could also use the Walmart talking point to belie her current gun control line of attack--he had better trot that out now, because gun control is not a good GE issue for either candidate, so there's no time like the present to use it)
-If he directly asks Hillary: "Why do you think big money interests give you money? What do you suppose they think they are doing when they give you yoooj amounts of cash?"
-If he points out the way she has claimed to be the most "transparent" candidate but will still not release the transcripts--and that she has moved the goal posts on it (if she is really prepared, she will have prepped for him to use his current stump speech line about "must be some pretty good speeches," so he should be cautious employing that)
-If he mentions key instances where there has been a conflict of interest regarding the money she takes, such as the Clinton Foundation pay-for-play with repressive Middle Eastern regimes
-If he points out that she has recently disavowed any role in shaping the TPP, despite what has come out in Wikileaks showing the exact opposite
-If he can successfully demonstrate that she is the "No We Can't" candidate (e.g., "This is the country that sent a man to the moon, but you're telling me we can't insure every man, woman, and child in it, just like every other major country on earth? I don't accept that.&quot
-If, more than any of these things, he intentionally softens the blow of the aforementioned jabs by pointing out that this is not just about Hillary Clinton, it's about the Democratic and Republican Party establishments at large, as in: "The only thing Hillary is guilty of is playing the game. I'm saying the game is the problem." This would (again, IMO) come off as classy and depersonalizing, while still demonstrating the problem with the establishment overall. Just hammering on the usual Wall St. connections on its own is not enough because although many people may care about that, they may not care so strongly about it that they would switch their vote to Bernie.

There are probably some more areas he could hit that are fair game (i.e., policy-related), but this is what comes to mind at the moment.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
26. If she tries to dismiss "stuff from 20 years ago"
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:11 PM
Mar 2016

I think Bernie has to stay right on all of it, from NAFTA up through the Columbia free trade agreement from the recent emails and TPP. Maybe a "why do you keep running away from your track record on this issue?" Remind the voters when they evaluate politicians, it is more important to look at what they've actually done than what they say they will do during a campaign. Remind them of Donahue from the Chamber of Commerce saying that he thought Hillary would ultimately support TPP after the election. Make her say she will not support it under any conditions.

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
29. I think a more effective response is to take that argument to its logical conclusion
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:14 PM
Mar 2016

That is, "Fine, if the bad policies and decisions you made or pushed 20 years ago don't matter, then I guess neither do your positive accomplishments. Either your record stands or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways."

If he can get her to guarantee she would not support it, full stop, and that's a campaign promise to which she can be held accountable--such as "if I went back on this, I wouldn't seek a second term"--then great. But he'll never get that. She is virtually incapable of answering basic yes or no questions without a lot of ambiguity.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
33. Bernie needs to point out the hedge phrases and qualifiers
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:20 PM
Mar 2016

She is always using them, even when asked something as simple as "do you tell the truth"?

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
43. One of the unfortunate things about the current debate format
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:30 PM
Mar 2016

is that there is no portion where the candidates can pose questions directly to one another.

IIRC, growing up I remember listening to Bernie do radio debates where this was allowed, and it tended to work heavily in his favor.

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
25. I don't know, but I'm sure he'll do whichever Tad Devine tells him to do....
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:10 PM
Mar 2016

1) go negative himself or 2) just keep on letting his keyboard minions do it for him, preserving his carefully crafted "better person than that" image.

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
44. I don't know because I am not privy to Tad Devine's well-paid counsel. What I am sure of
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:30 PM
Mar 2016

is the fact that since Bernie is paying for that advice, he will continue to take it.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
31. Should? yes! Will? He will point out their differences in no uncertain terms. But other than that,
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:17 PM
Mar 2016

that's not Bernie's style.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
34. While I admire that about him, he has to decide if he really wants to win or not
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:21 PM
Mar 2016

Without some sharp exchanges, the media will bury this debate 5 minutes after it is over.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
38. I completely agree. He should. But unfortunately that's not Bernie. That said -
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:25 PM
Mar 2016

I hope like heck he proves me wrong.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
45. He should. He should point out that polls show he's far more likely to beat ANY republican in Nov.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:31 PM
Mar 2016

Plus he should bat out of the park her false meme about effectiveness.

We can hope...

Merryland

(1,134 posts)
50. I feel like this imminent victory in Maine
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:38 PM
Mar 2016

is going to give Bernie the extra energy tonight to knock it out of the debate ballpark like we've never seen...

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
53. I doubt it.
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:52 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie knows he is not going to win and he needs to keep a good relationship with the probable next President.

dana_b

(11,546 posts)
54. I think that he should do what he thinks is right
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:55 PM
Mar 2016

If it were me, hell yes I would but it's not so.... do what you want, Bernie!!


Response to Chasstev365 (Original post)

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
63. The gloves are definitely off and I'm loving it!
Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:48 PM
Mar 2016

Will the media still be wondering if Bernie is about to get out?

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