2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSpread the word to everyone in Michigan that Hillary lied about Bernie's vote on the auto bailout!
They used to say that a lie travels halfway around the world before the truth even gets its shoes on...
But in the age of the internet, let's prove that old saying false!
If we can get a nasty Rovian tactcic like this to blow up in their faces in just a couple of days, it would be a thing of beauty.
elleng
(131,107 posts)and not necessary to say 'lied,' as maybe inflammatory for some, but find a clear explanation. (NOT too easy, I'm afraid.)
"She lied!" immediately puts a person on the defensive. They might have no investment in either candidate, but few people enjoy beign drawn into a confrontation so blatantly.
"Hillary Clinton said X. But the fact of the matter is Y...' is a MUCH better approach. The person you're speaking to is a smart man or woman, they can tel la lie when they see the facts.
senz
(11,945 posts)Welcome back! You were missed.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Thanks, though
Hydra
(14,459 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Bernie voted against the auto bailout when it counted. He voted against the bill which actually furnished the money.
Besides I wouldn't bother - 2 recent polls (3/1 & 3/5) of Michigan had Clinton ahead by 26% and a projection from Nate Silver gives Clinton a 99% chance of winning Michigan, and this was before the Michigan debate.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)Bailing out Wall Street was the deal-breaker. I'm good with that. He explained it well today on Fox.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)There is no lie there.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)Designed to mislead. Is that what you've been reduced to?
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)What is misleading is his trying to deflect from the fact that he didn't vote for funds in the version that passed.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)So your statement is carefully worded to mislead.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Sanders voted for a version of the auto bail out bill which did not pass.
When when the auto bail out provision came up as part of the larger bail out bill which did which did pass and provided the big three with loans which allowed them to survive along with the rest of the auto industry, he voted against that bill.
Had a majority of the Senate members voted as Bernie did, the auto industry in the US would have failed. So when it counted, Bernie voted against the auto bailout.
And there something far more important here that neither Bernie or Hillary are talking about because they don't want to upset their fellow Democrats - had the entire bail out bill which Bernie voted against failed to pass, the country would have been thrown into a depression that might well have been worse than the great depression of the 1930's.
It isn't just me saying that, though I have a good background in economics; the same has been said by almost every major economist from the most liberal to the most conservative. Yes, some of those companies saved were those that cause the problems in the first place, and I hated that, but it had to be done. Money for business loans (and personal loans) had completely dried up. Most small and middle size businesses rely on lines of credit to pay their employees and stay in business until they are paid for jobs completed. Without access to business loans most would have had to declare bankruptcy. The economy would have gone into a downward spiral. The bailout bill got the money flowing again, but it still took the country seven years to recover and it isn't totally there yet.
So, Sanders, with his total dislike for big corporations and especially those that caused the problem, acted voted to put the US and the rest of the world into a depression. Rather short sighted, wouldn't you say.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)He voted for and supported the auto bailout. To imply otherwise is spinning.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)He made a choice, and that choice is now having consequences. He did NOT vote for the bill that passed.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)But you are deliberately misinforming voters by creating the impression that he did not support the auto bailout. He did.
He voted against TARP, as did many of his colleagues.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)The question is, what does he believe? He showed you when he voted for it as a standalone.
To paint him as someone against the auto bailout is a lie.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)Hence why FactCheck and a number of other sources--including some senate Dems--have called her out on this:
But at the time of the vote, it was by no means clear that Obama would use more than one-fifth of the $350 billion for an auto bailout. And most of the money still went for the bank bailouts that Sanders opposed.
So Clintons claim that her Jan. 15, 2009, vote was to save the auto industry is to be charitable quite a stretch.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/factchecking-the-seventh-democratic-debate/
Go back and look at her actual statement about the bailout when it passed and earlier and you won't find anything about the auto industry. Just bailing out Wall St.
Of course, he could have voted for the Wall St. bailout... But would that end racism?
senz
(11,945 posts)Cheerful thought, I'm sure.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Apparently faster than it takes to get PPR'd for an egregious ToS violation.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)you support Secretary Clinton. As a Senator Sanders supporter I can't tell you how much I appreciate your "concern" mostly because I don't.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Bernie's been doing the right thing forever, including on the standalone Auto Bailout, which he voted for as Hillary knows full well.
She didn't happen to mention whether she voted for that bill though, did she? I wonder why? She usually takes credit for everything she can.
She voted for TARP, which was a blank check BANK BAILOUT. Of course. Some of that giant slush fund ended up being used for the auto bailout after the bill for it failed. That is no support for the auto industry by Clinton. At best, she did it accidentally while supporting her bankers.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)In another day and age, many voters would have been swayed by Hillary's 11th hour smear of Bernie's stance on saving the auto industry.
But in this day and age, it didn't work. It may have even backfired.
merrily
(45,251 posts)A study showed that people tend to believe the first version of a story they hear or read.*
A later retraction or correction will make the impression left by the original lie stronger.
This was something I've noticed all my life. I hate being gossiped about behind my back. So, under the golden rule, I didn't gossip about anyone who is not present. This meant my version of a story was never the first one anyone heard. Happened at high school; happened at work. Often made things suck. Proud to say I still didn't/don't talk poorly about anyone who is not present to defend himself or herself.