2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe civil rights LIE about Bernie was launched in preparation for South Carolina
as a way to take one of Bernie's great strengths and Karl Rove it into a weakness.
The auto bailout lie was launched in preparation for the Michigan primary and as a way to attack Bernie's strength in fighting for working families and unions and Karl Rove it into a weakness.
Here is what I think of people who spread Hiliary Clinton's slime:
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Also, the auto bailout thing wasn't a lie.
Bernie voted against TARP. Included in those funds were auto bailout funds.
kracer20
(199 posts)Then ending it saying but I did meet Clinton when his own book said he didn't meet them until some time in the 80's I think.
Edited to add-->Also all the baloney about the person in the pictures not being Sanders.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The picture thing doesn't make a difference one way or another. Also, the Hillary campaign didn't mention anything about the pictures. Those were some columnists and people on the internet.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)but what about people who had not yet made up their minds and then were fed this info about Bernie not really being "real" on civil rights.
and the auto bailout thing is garbage. Nobody should have voted for the billions we threw away on the banks and wall street without any way to make sure it was used properly...and most of it wasn't. And that is what Bernie objected to...money from middle class Americans...tons of money being given to wall street with no accountability. Much of it was used to make the banks bigger and for CEO bonuses and or just sat in the bank, rather than being used to lend, which was it's purpose.
He was right in that vote and it had "NOTHING" to do with his support for the Auto industry. And it's disingenuous to pretend it did.
Duval
(4,280 posts)appalachiablue
(41,171 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... but the details about the TARP vote aren't?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Rilgin
(787 posts)TARP was the The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008.
It was about the financial industry with various riders. Many of us Democrats and a lot of the general public was against TARP because it was a financial bailout that didnt change anything about the financial industry.
Hillary's whole attack (conveniently made in Michigan) was that Bernie was against an automobile industry bailout. this was an outright lie, he was against the TARP bill. She and you know this and its a totally disingenuous and like most of Hillary's politics unforgivable except for people who like politics to be about lying about your opponent.
So please explain how you would respond to the same logic on Hillary and understand unlike your candidate this is an exercise in explanation. I do not believe it she was against increasing the federal minimum wage or Katrina but you could base a claim on the following vote the same way Hillary made her disgraceful attack on Bernie.
Hillary Clinton voted against HR 2206 - Emergency Departmental Supplemental Appropriations Bill of 2007 - Key Vote. It contained appropriations for Katrina Aid and increased the Federal Minimum Wage as riders. I am sure she had reasons to vote against it but it included things she claims she is for and she voted "nay".
http://votesmart.org/bill/4163/12952/55463/emergency-departmental-supplemental-appropriations-bill-of-2007#12952
Like Tarp, the good things were the icing to try to get votes on something that was generally objectionable. So was Hillary against Katrina Aid and against an increase in the Minimum Wage or was she against the rest of the Bill? If we started an attack on Hillary which claimed she was against increasing the Minimum Wage and against Katrina would you not think this was disingenuous and a lie?
gordyfl
(598 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)I won't even ASK how a human being can stand there and lie and distort like that.
I know how.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)The auto bailout came later.
As far as the civil rights lie, didn't someone say that they didn't see Bernie, but they did see Billy Ray Joe Bob Clinton, and Hillary Clinton? That was to imply that Bernie had nothing to do with civil rights in the 60s.
There are the lies!
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Karma works on her own schedule though, not ours.
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Permeates the Clinton campaign. Brock being chief example.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)......isn't that admirable?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But no. She's all about that "Warm Purple Space" with Republicans, while doing everything she possibly can to drive the left out of her own party.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)---and they want Sanders supporters to come around to her at some point?.....?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)We're not appreciated, wanted, or needed.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)----
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Scenario two, Hilalry is the nominee and wins: "Hah hah! Loser leftists, we dodn't need your asses anyway! We're moving to the right because it's what the party wants!"
Scenario three, Sanders is the nominee and loses: "Well, that's the end of the Left! we have to move back to the right!"
Scenario four, Sanders is the nominee and wins: "he would have never won without centrists like us, we need to move the party to the right to reflect this!"
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)except in scenario four, we don't get dragged along behind their truck.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)MineralMan
(146,329 posts)I hate that photo meme. Truly.
Here's the truth about that image, which has been misused so many times:
http://92moose.fm/mr-rogers-flipping-the-bird-it-happened-but-was-innocent-video/
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)helped kids in many ways. I hate to see his image used in this way. It was a brief moment in singing a song about fingers to small children who were just learning about their own fingers.
I wish people would never use that image in such an insulting way.
Just my opinion.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #16)
Name removed Message auto-removed
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Svafa
(594 posts)They did a show here shortly after all of the Ferguson stuff, and they and the crowd broke out into chants of "Hands up/Don't shoot." It was very powerful. Regardless of one's stage name, I like it when artists become engaged and involved with justice movements and politics. I guess when it comes to music though, taste is subjective, but I quite enjoy alternative hip hop.
Coincidence
(98 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)No. You are 100% wrong.
The GOP started it with the "VT is all white" smear last summer.
Naturally Hillary picked right up on it. Her surrogates lied about Sanders involvement in civil rights at the opportune moment.
And low-info...and uniformed voters voted against their own self interest.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)The Huerta event happened right as Hillary was on her way in to campaign in Texas, with its high Latino demographic. No, I am really trying/have tried, but I don't believe in coincidences anymore. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But I don't want to believe it. I think it was just a result of her being pro Hillary, so she incorrectly perceived what she heard. The Hill camp sure jumped the shark with that one.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)The kitchen sink was an understatement..
AzDar
(14,023 posts)If not for that pesky Democratic Socialist... (and his dog)
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)But the Clinton's tried real hard tho
FourScore
(9,704 posts)That's her campaign's MO.
oasis
(49,407 posts)Bernie's campaign. Politics ain't beanbags.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)oasis
(49,407 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)....film of someone actually saying something they actually said is still not the same as lying about things and distortions about complicated bills and why they were voted on the way they were.
Try to understand the difference.
Response to AlbertCat (Reply #50)
Post removed
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)People in that area know what those trade deals did to them.
They need to know that of course she will push to get the latest one passed. She'd do it just to get the pats on the back from her pals, the super-wealthy. But I'm sure some nice payoffs will go with it too.
Bernie has argued against these trade deals since the first one. He was right in everything he predicted about them, even though voters ignored him and elected those who used free trade to take their jobs away. Elections do have consequences, as those in Michigan and neighboring states should know.
If they don't know by now, they really are totally screwed this time.
SixString
(1,057 posts)Peregrine Took
(7,417 posts)But that's me.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)He has a conscience.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)PatrickforO
(14,587 posts)Did you know the Cook County Democratic Party omitted Bernie from their sample ballot??????
That's a maggoty bunch of partisan filth. Here's the website: http://www.cookcountydems.com/candidates.htm
The ROVIAN RATFUCKING continues.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)....showing how deeply in jeopardy Hillary is, despite all her posing and denials.
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)that is one scary picture.
Seriously good detail.
Kudos to the artist....
PatrickforO
(14,587 posts)Here is the link to the website where Mr. Rove Rat lives...
http://www.strangehistory.net/2015/03/08/beachcombing-and-the-telepathic-rat/
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)Which if she gets it will offer her little in way of any votes. Really need something callled the New Liberal Democratic party
frazzled
(18,402 posts)We know he did a few things as a college student: went to a fair housing march and went to the March on Washington. All well and good (though not out of the ordinary.) But then he went to Vermont for fifty years, where the most I've gotten from anyone is that a multicultural center supports him.
Compare that to a continued history of working across the years with and for organizations involved in continuing civil rights issues. People who have met you and/or know your efforts.
People are making their decisions of their own accord. I can assure you that 98.5% of Americans have never heard of the photo flap. It's entirely insignificant and hasn't swayed a thing. People's preferences should be respected. They're the people. And they don't always agree with you. But that's okay. Their opinions matter too.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)Okay, I give your response a D- (maybe an F+).
Jayzus, people. This is not high school.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)And put him on Ignore.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Sanders was reelected three times, defeating both Democratic and Republican candidates. He received 53% of the vote in 1983 and 55% in 1985.[55] In his final run for mayor in 1987, Sanders defeated Paul Lafayette, a Democrat endorsed by both major parties.[56]
During his mayoralty, Sanders called himself a socialist and was so described in the press.[57][58] During his first term, his supporters, including the first Citizens Party City Councilor Terry Bouricius, formed the Progressive Coalition, the forerunner of the Vermont Progressive Party.[59] The Progressives never held more than six seats on the 13-member city council, but they had enough to keep the council from overriding Sanders's vetoes. Under Sanders, Burlington became the first city in the country to fund community-trust housing.[60]
During the 1980s, Sanders was a staunch critic of U.S. foreign policy in Latin America.[61] In 1985, Burlington City Hall hosted a foreign policy speech by Noam Chomsky. In his introduction, Sanders praised Chomsky as "a very vocal and important voice in the wilderness of intellectual life in America" and said he was "delighted to welcome a person who I think we're all very proud of."[62][63]
Sanders's administration balanced the city budget and drew a minor league baseball team, the Vermont Reds, then the Double-A affiliate of the Cincinnati Reds, to Burlington.[12] Under his leadership, Burlington sued the local television cable franchise, winning reduced rates for customers.[12]
As mayor, Sanders led extensive downtown revitalization projects. One of his signature achievements was the improvement of Burlington's Lake Champlain waterfront.[12] In 1981, Sanders campaigned against the unpopular plans by Burlington developer Tony Pomerleau to convert the then-industrial[64] waterfront property owned by the Central Vermont Railway into expensive condominiums, hotels, and offices.[65] Sanders ran under the slogan "Burlington is not for sale" and successfully supported a plan that redeveloped the waterfront area into a mixed-use district featuring housing, parks, and public space.[65] Today, the waterfront area includes many parks and miles of public beach and bike paths, a boathouse, and a science center.[65]
Sanders hosted and produced a public-access television program, Bernie Speaks with the Community, from 1986 to 1988.[66][67] He collaborated with 30 Vermont musicians to record a folk album, We Shall Overcome, in 1987.[68][69]
In 1986, Sanders unsuccessfully challenged incumbent Governor Madeleine Kunin (D) in her run for reelection. Running as an Independent, Sanders finished in 3rd place with 14.4% of the vote. Kunin won with 47%, followed by Lt. Governor Peter P. Smith (R) with 38%.
In 1987, U.S. News & World Report ranked Sanders as one of America's best mayors.[70] Today, Burlington is regarded as one of the most livable cities in the nation.[71][72]
After serving four two-year terms, Sanders chose not to seek reelection in 1989. He briefly taught political science at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government that year and at Hamilton College in 1991.[73]
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I might also say that Burlington, VT does not even appear on the list of 297 US cities by population. It's a pretty tiny place, and tinier back then probably. So while I'm sure he was a good mayor, I don't see that as providing a lot of proof for running a diverse country of 300 million people. And it has zero to do with the civil rights issues we are discussing. Even today, Burlington has an African-American population of 3.8% and a Latino population of 2.8%. (Compare that to the city in which I live, which has 30% each of Black and Hispanic residents.)
I am just trying to explain why some voters, especially African American voters, were never buying into Sanders on the basis of his civil rights record, which is simply not broad enough to count.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)You see it as an opportunity to continue to push fear, uncertainty and doubt. The ISSUE being discussed in this thread is how Hillary uses lies to smear an opponent, just like Ham Rove. What are your thought on THAT issue?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Maybe you have something in your head I didn't see.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Arkansas ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), a membership organization of low and modern income families founded in Little Rock on June 18, 1970 had been leading the fights at the Public Service Commission to halt inflationary increases in utility costs for gas, telephone, and electricity that were hammering their members. ACORN had made some progress but much of their success had been in whittling down huge proposed increases, which even in victory, still meant higher bills for their members. Finally, they struck upon a strategy of advocating a lifeline rate that would freeze the costs for the first 400 kilowatts of electricity at a fixed level so that lower income families would always be able to afford basic utilities in their homes. By getting a valid number of signatures for an initiated petition ACORN could put the issue on the ballot and if the voters agreed, enact lifeline rates.
Similar petitions were filed by ACORN members in Fayetteville, Fort Smith, Hot Springs, and Pine Bluff, but due to legal challenges and adverse court decisions blocking the vote, only the Little Rock measure was approved for the ballot. ACORN waged an extensive campaign for approval that involved going door-to-door throughout eastern, central and southwestern Little Rock. In the last few weeks of the campaign, the utility company, particularly Arkansas Power & Light (AP&L), now Entergy, dumped tens of thousands of dollars in advertisements on television and radio in an effort to have voters reject the initiative. Despite everything, ACORN won the election with voters approving lifeline rates by a significant majority. Later court challenges by AP&L and a rural electric cooperative claimed that the cooperative had some dozen or so customers within Little Rock city limits and no large customers, whose rates would increase to compensate for the equalizing of rates which established lifeline rates, thereby making it confiscatory. The case for the utilities was famously handled by Webb Hubbell, who later became Mayor of Little Rock, and Hilary Rodham, who later as Hilary Rodham Clinton, became a United States Senator from New York, Secretary of State, and a candidate for President in addition to being First Lady while Bill Clinton was President of the United States.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)by claiming that Bernie was lying about his involvement and that photographic evidence was invalid. A bona fide ratfucking maneuver. And you come back with "he moved to Vermont". So quit complaining or you might get your C- lowered.
You know who knows Hillary and has worked with her, Marion Wright Edelman. Ask her what she thinks.
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)Outstanding OP. I love it. Thanks for this!
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)I appreciate your comment. I get so fed with our side doing this stuff against ourselves. Hope all is well with you Mr. Waterman.
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)communication skills .....something I am confident that you've heard before. I admire your direct approach. And I am hoping that you put those skills to use beyond this forum ....because it is people like yourself that can breath new life into our party.
(I'm doing pretty okay for a man my age, I think. I still check the obits daily, to make sure I'm still above ground, though!)
fbc
(1,668 posts)Corporate money and dirty campaigning is all she really has.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)you lie too often people start expecting everything you say to be a lie. But then she may already be too late.
Broward
(1,976 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)That bastard Capehart even found a picture.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Not voting for Gore in 2000 was kind of incomprehensible to me. He seemed like he would make a decent, honest president at the time.
The same cannot be said of Hillary and her crew. They spread lies.
I will vote for all the other Democrats on my ballot but not for Hillary should she be the nominee. I do not trust her.
She does not play fair.
She is vindictive.
Democrats should not lie and should not stretch the truth.
Democrats should negotiate fiercely for ordinary Americans and not give in so easily to the wealthy and powerful.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)the Clintons would take note of the these slanders against Bernie and recognize the Clintons for what they are.
Thanks for the thread, FlatBaroque.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)by those smears.
I wonder how long it will take for other people to know smears and lies when they see them and look just a bit below the surface.
Fooled again.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Clinton's surrogates are the worst.
tblue
(16,350 posts)Capehart, Lewis, CBCPAC
Yes it was all planned by the HC campaign. I'll never forget that day. I literally cried.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)and say "I never met him". He ruined his legacy for many, many people. How many more good people will lose their honor in service of Clinton, Inc.?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)thesquanderer
(11,991 posts)I guess this is what happens when only one of the two candidates says they intend to avoid running a negative campaign. It does put Bernie at a disadvantage.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)You have Bill campaigning in polling stations in MA
Can't wait to see what steaming turds are about to be slung for Florida and New York.
Does her campaign think that this shit isn't going to hamper turnout if she ends up buying the nomination?
amborin
(16,631 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)The people of South Carolina need to wise up -- a LOT.