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bigtree

(85,998 posts)
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:12 PM Mar 2016

10 fully false narratives suddenly coming out of Michigan

Progressive Man ?@WeNeedHillary 4h4 hours ago
Hillary Clinton vs Bernie Sanders: 10 fully false narratives suddenly coming out of Michigan http://buff.ly/1nxaGFP


Here’s a look at the eleven most popular claims about Michigan and the rest of the democratic race, ten of which are False or Mostly False:

“Democrats changed their minds at the last minute because of the final debate or trade deals or some other reason” – False. Hillary won the registered democrat vote in Michigan by 16%. But three quarters of the registered independents in the state who voted in the democratic race voted for Bernie. No Democrats changed their minds in Michigan. Bernie won because registered independents came out of the woodwork to take advantage of Michigan’s “open” system. Hillary’s popularity with Democrats is still what it was.

“Tons of republicans voted for Bernie just to trip up Hillary” – False. Last night, CNN reported on-air that just three percent of the people who voted in the democratic primary were registered republicans. That relative handful might have been enough to narrowly flip the state, but it doesn’t explain the nearly twenty point polling gap. The republicans weren’t the culprit in the Michigan democratic primary. The independents were.

“Democrats assumed Hillary was going to win Michigan, so they voted on the republican side just to mess with them” – True. Seven percent of the people who voted in the republican primary were registered Democrats. This is likely to stop, now that Hillary’s supporters can see they just cost her a state by assuming things.

“Bernie did well with the urban black vote” – False. Exit polls suggest Hillary got around two thirds of the urban black vote, meaning she’ll have major advantages in cities like Chicago and Cleveland.

“Hillary only won the day due to superdelegates” – False. While everyone was obsessing over Bernie winning Michigan by 2%, Hillary was simultaneously winning Mississippi by 66%. She won the majority of last night’s overall delegates across the two states because she won the majority of the overall popular vote. Democrats are awarded delegates in proportion to their margin of victory in every state.

“Independents can hand the nomination to Bernie” – Mostly False. Four of the March 15th states are some degree of open or semi-closed, meaning independents may be able to make an impact – but not as much as they did in Michigan. And the fifth state, Florida, is fully closed. So Hillary will win the overall vote on March 15th easily, pulling even further ahead. And after that date, there are only three more open primaries remaining in the entire country. This was mostly a one trick pony.

“Michigan proves Bernie can make a comeback” – False. Michigan proves that even when Bernie has an unexpectedly ‘great’ day for himself, he falls even further behind in the race. He would need to win, on average, about 60% of the total vote going forward in order to come back. Last night he only got about 51% of the vote in his best state, and only about 17% of the vote in the state he lose. In other words, regardless of the headlines, last night put Bernie that much closer to being mathematically eliminated. And again, that’s before even looking at the superdelegates.

“Bernie is going to make his big comeback by winning California at the end” – False. Like all states, California awards its delegates proportionally. Demographics suggest that even if Bernie won California, it would be close. That means the delegates would be almost evenly split, as they were in Michigan. As the race goes on, close wins by the distant second place candidate only work in the frontrunner’s favor.

“Hillary is only winning red states, so she’s in trouble for the general election” – False, and this is the most strangely nonsensical argument coming out of the Bernie camp to date. In the general election Hillary will win all the blue states, because the republican candidates have veered too far red. If anything, Hillary’s extreme popularity among blue voters in red states suggests she’ll be able to flip a few of the slightly-red ones in the general election as well.

“Democratic polls can’t be trusted going forward” – Mostly False. This is only true for the open primary states, and there aren’t many of those remaining. Hillary got exactly the percentage of registered Democrats in Michigan that the polls said she would. So in closed primary states, where only registered Democrats can vote to begin with, the polls can still be counted on to be accurate.


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10 fully false narratives suddenly coming out of Michigan (Original Post) bigtree Mar 2016 OP
Disagree on point 9 - so far Xipe Totec Mar 2016 #1
consider this bigtree Mar 2016 #3
I think we might flip a few red states, too bravenak Mar 2016 #2
I think you are right. sheshe2 Mar 2016 #14
The bees knees!! bravenak Mar 2016 #34
the cats pajamas! sheshe2 Mar 2016 #35
yadda yadda yadda tularetom Mar 2016 #4
ironic defense bigtree Mar 2016 #8
Sanders netted SEVEN delegates In Michigan bigtree Mar 2016 #9
about that first point ... surrealAmerican Mar 2016 #5
Because if you know you aren't voting for the other party (even in a primary) mythology Mar 2016 #31
Pontifications from some rando on the internet. seattleite Mar 2016 #6
says some rando on the internet bigtree Mar 2016 #7
LOL! BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #19
You posted it. Maybe consider a credible source next time. seattleite Mar 2016 #27
Which are a lot of good arguments for a national, open, primary for president. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #10
that what we need more of in our party primaries bigtree Mar 2016 #11
We need more democracy. As in the rule of the people rather than parties. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #12
we have a Democratic primary to nominate Democrats bigtree Mar 2016 #18
Is that what's important? Party? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #22
not just any party, the Democratic party bigtree Mar 2016 #24
I'd call most politicians "opportunistic" to the tune of 99% of them. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #25
Culprits? noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #13
Well done, bigtree. sheshe2 Mar 2016 #15
There is no such thing as a registered Republican in Michigan democrattotheend Mar 2016 #16
Oh, no. Independents are voting for Sanders! Enthusiastically! Lots of them! Doctor_J Mar 2016 #17
give it a rest. hillary is still ahead. we get it. but u sound desperate. Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #20
Thanks for injecting some sanity! BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #21
Bernie didn't carry the AA vote in MI, but he did do much better with AA's Ken Burch Mar 2016 #23
Hillary winning Mississippi will be decisive in November ::eye rolls:: nt TheDormouse Mar 2016 #26
No Democrats changed their minds in Michigan. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #28
It's so cute that you still have so much hope after getting a roust in the bellwether state. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #29
2% more votes than Hillary, 7 more delegates in MI bigtree Mar 2016 #30
Losing a 30 point lead and losing in the number of votes is a roust. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #32
I can address the false narrative issue with far less verbosity by citing you from yesterday... Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #33
Well, for starters, there are no "registered" Democrats, Independents or John Poet Mar 2016 #36
K&R great white snark Mar 2016 #37

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
1. Disagree on point 9 - so far
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:18 PM
Mar 2016

"Hillary’s extreme popularity among blue voters in red states suggests she’ll be able to flip a few of the slightly-red ones in the general election as well."

The fact is, HRC has won in Red states due to low democratic turnout in those states, not high. If the numbers in the GE match, if Democrats turn out in proportionally lower numbers in GE in those states, then it will be a slaughter for Democrats in those states.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
3. consider this
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:21 PM
Mar 2016
Jeff Gauvin ?@JeffersonObama 5h5 hours ago
Obama lost the big states to Clinton in 08 & had less total votes, but won the delegate battles. Clinton is winning both despite media memes


The extreme republican candidates drive Democratic GE turnout.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
4. yadda yadda yadda
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:27 PM
Mar 2016

Opinion once again presented as fact.

Each of these primaries is a story unto itself and there are many factors which contribute to the result thereof.

There was a vote in Michigan. Sanders got more votes than Clinton. Most polls take before the vote indicated Clinton would get many more votes than Sanders.

There. Those are the facts. Everything else is spin.

surrealAmerican

(11,362 posts)
5. about that first point ...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:29 PM
Mar 2016

If you can vote in either primary by registering as an "independent", why would any voter choose to register as anything else?

What is the point of party registration in an open primary state?

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
31. Because if you know you aren't voting for the other party (even in a primary)
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:53 PM
Mar 2016

why would you not?

In Massachusetts I could register as an Independent and then select a ballot for several parties. But I'm a Democrat. I'm not going to vote in a Republican primary in an attempt to "screw" with the results. So why not represent the party?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
10. Which are a lot of good arguments for a national, open, primary for president.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:48 PM
Mar 2016

And, an end to the electoral college.

We could call it Democracy.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
11. that what we need more of in our party primaries
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:54 PM
Mar 2016

...non-Democrats, faux Democrats, and republicans driving our nomination.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
18. we have a Democratic primary to nominate Democrats
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:04 PM
Mar 2016

...not Greens, Naderites, Paulites, or any other splinter candidate looking to divide our party.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
22. Is that what's important? Party?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:09 PM
Mar 2016

Do you consider Sanders the (Gasp!) Socialist a "splinter" candidate out to divide the party?

BTW, what is a "faux Democrat"? One who doesn't or won't be "loyal" to the label?

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
24. not just any party, the Democratic party
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:18 PM
Mar 2016

...the most effective political coalition available to advance our progressive ideals through the democratic process.

I'd call Sanders an opportunistic Democrat. The rest of what I wrote was in reference to voters.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
25. I'd call most politicians "opportunistic" to the tune of 99% of them.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:20 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary being a prime example of "opportunistic".

I also consider, Bernie a helluva lot more progressive than Hillary...as most Socialists usually are.

noretreatnosurrender

(1,890 posts)
13. Culprits?
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:56 PM
Mar 2016
The republicans weren’t the culprit in the Michigan democratic primary. The independents were.


Judging by your comment it looks like you don't have much respect for Independents. Um, you do realize that if Hillary were the nominee she would need to win the votes of those "culprits" right?

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
16. There is no such thing as a registered Republican in Michigan
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:01 PM
Mar 2016

There is no party registration at all there. Which, as an aside, is really annoying when you work for a political organization that wants to do voter targeting.

Did you mean 3% were self-identified Republicans?

Either way, I think you are absolutely right that there is no way Bernie could have won because of strategic voting by Republicans. Why would Republicans, who have a hotly contested race on their side, cross over to vote for a candidate who had been largely written off.

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)
21. Thanks for injecting some sanity!
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:07 PM
Mar 2016

I congratulate Bernie and his supporters on his victory last night,

But by itself, it is no game-changer.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
23. Bernie didn't carry the AA vote in MI, but he did do much better with AA's
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:09 PM
Mar 2016

compared to Super Tuesday. And he has significant growth potential among AA's in Illinois, where HRC will be hurt by her long-standing ties to Rahm. She can't very well campaign with the guy who tried to hide the Laquan Mcdonald police murder video.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
30. 2% more votes than Hillary, 7 more delegates in MI
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 10:49 PM
Mar 2016

...isn't a 'roust.'

Laura Marlin ?@GiGicmka
@nytimes I call it a "virtual tie" in Michigan. Isn't that what Bernie has said when Hillary wins?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
33. I can address the false narrative issue with far less verbosity by citing you from yesterday...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 11:07 PM
Mar 2016

RCP Average for MI Shows 20+ Clinton Lead
David Blais ?@realDavidBlais
Pollster estimate for MI Democratic Presidential Primary: Clinton 57.4%, Sanders 39.1%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511442674


20+ Lead!!!!! This is election morning, the day of no lead whatsoever, in fact a loss which is now being parsed by the same folks who were pushing that gigantic lead narrative so hard.

False narratives indeed. It's like a cottage industry among Clinton supporters.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
36. Well, for starters, there are no "registered" Democrats, Independents or
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 11:50 PM
Mar 2016

Republicans in Michigan, registration is non-partisan.

So how did ANYONE "win the registered Democrat vote" in Michigan, when there is
NO SUCH THING?



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