2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis Is A Fun Primary - Still Uncommitted, Keeping An Open Mind
I voted for President Obama over Hillary back in 2008, but I am not going to hold that against Hillary. Given that I am more motivated this time around to simply defeating a Candidate Trump, I am sort of sitting back an enjoying the primary and trying to keep an open mind, which is oddly liberating.
Back in the day, I would routinely get into posting wars with Hillary supporters like Beacool, etc., but now I can sort of just appreciate that both candidates are far more substantive than what passes for a debate on the Republican side. There are disagreements and discussions about issues!
When I see Hillary, I still think of Hillary's anger translator on Key & Peele. Can't help it. Hillary is not exactly Ms. Charisma, but for better or worse, I see her as a U.S. version of Germany's leader, Angela Merkel, a technocrat who will try to navigate a moderate sounding Third Way, which is why many liberals hate her. As for Bernie, love his message and vision, but I don't see how he plans to achieve even a fraction of that vision with a Republican congress. With a Democratic congress, he stands a better chance, but the fact of the matter is that a Democrat from the South is probably going to be right of center at best. Finally, if he compromises to get things done, many of his supporters will get disappointed and accuse him of selling out.
Still, this is kind of fun for now. Now, when whoever the party nominates to go against either Cruz/Trump, things will get serious.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Trajan
(19,089 posts)There is no way I could be uncommitted ...
I automatically gravitated to Bernie, as soon as he jumped in the race ....
Everybody up to this point has been a compromise, except for Bernie Sanders ....
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)One of the things that informed Bernie in his decision to run was and is the year 2020. 2020 is a census year - it is the ground zero election year for re-redistricting. Including 2016, all senators will come up for election now to 2020 (2016,2018,2020). The winner in 2016 will be able to build the Dem organization to prepare for a massive 2020 coordinated campaign from dog catcher to senator in every state.
Bernie also recognized something Barack Obama failed to do. That is, to retain your supporters and mobilize them behind drives to force discussion and legislation to be addressed. Bernie intends to do this.
I will be there and I invite you to join me.
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)I agree that if Bernie gets a liberal Democratic congress as part of his revolution, then it becomes much easier for him to implement his platform. However, what if he doesn't? Isn't the idea that Bernie gets a liberal Democratic majority a best case scenario? How would Bernie be able to deal with a Republican House and/or Senate that refuses to pass any bill that he proposes? Worse, they just keep on sending bills to repeal Obamacare, the Dodd-Frank Act and build a pipeline to his desk?
Then in 2020, when he is up for re-election, and the corporate media are going 24/7 with the "Why can't Bernie be more bi-partisan? Why is he being so partisan?" How does Bernie expect to be re-elected? This is what worries me, a revolution that is built on a best case scenario of people rising up and handing Bernie a liberal Congress. At best, Bernie will be in the same position as President Obama, who I think has done a very good job given the utter obstruction he has been faced with.
The same goes for Hillary. I think Hillary would probably govern similar to Bill Clinton, which unlike many, I think is not necessarily a bad thing. I think Bill Clinton was one of the better presidents of the past four decades, and the first president that I really got excited about supporting. Still, Hillary is not Bill, and as she herself acknowledges, she does not have Bill Clinton or Barack Obama's charisma, so I wonder how she would fare under the expected right wing attack.
Nonetheless, it will be an exciting primary election to watch, but this time, I am saving all of my campaign contributions to beat the Republicans, because they have jumped the shark.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He will get more done, even with a Republican Congress, because he knows the members of Congress having served with them for many years, and he knows how to get things done in Congress, how to find the issues on which other members of Congress agree with him and how to build a coalition little by little, issue by issue.
In his years in the House, he was known as the king of the amendments. He knew how to work with Republicans and to find common ground with them and then to be stubborn about issues on which he disagreed with them.
He has strong moral purpose and a lot of courage. Look at the way he answered honestly the questions about Cuba tonight. He takes responsibility for his actions. That is what causes opponents to respect you.
Bernie sticks to his moral principles but finds middle ground without having to give up his own principles.
Hillary doesn't work from moral principles to stances on issues and therefore is often wrong about things. She has to change her mind a lot because she is wrong on so much.
I always say that Bernie works from firm principles to decide what he believes is right about a specific issue.
That is why I think that Bernie will make a better president.
Tulsi Gabbard said what I am saying far more elegantly. She says that he has a military mind. I agree with her. What she means is that he is good at thinking strategically and is far-sighted.
Those are the qualities we need in a president.
Bernie won his own state's primary, Vermont's primary by 86%. That tells you that he is really trustworthy and loved by the people who know him best, the people he represents.
Our loyalty to him is not about expecting him to work miracles and do everything he is talking about doing. Our loyalty to him is about our understanding that he is on our side and that he will do everything he can to enact the policies and carry through on the policies that will help our nation including those he is proposing in this campaign.
We are realistic about how government works. We like Bernie's proposals, his platform, and we want to support him to the extent we can.
cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)Clinton and Jeb! trounce a bunch of also-rans. Boy was I wrong!
I also thought that our nominee would be fighting a huge uphill battle in the GE thanks to the disgruntled mood of the electorate, and the historical difficulty of holding the WH for more than 8 years. Luckily, the Republicans seem determined to drive into a ditch, so we've got a good shot.