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ericson00

(2,707 posts)
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:58 AM Mar 2016

Cold War Reminder

OK, yes, America did some unsavory things during the Cold War, but given this:

-USSR wanted to be a superpower
-History has always had aspiring hegemons
-The USSR committed genocides, ethnic cleansing, and deliberate famines with death tolls in the millions
-There was no personal liberty at all in the USSR (no free speech, no LGBT rights [it was far worse for gays in the USSR than in America even back then], no womens rights [far fewer women in communist government/society than in the West], non-Russians and other minorities suffered and had no say in government/society
-Russia/USSR treated indigenous peoples far worse than America
-Nearly all communist countries shared the above attributes

why is it acceptable to have sided with the USSR against America in the Cold War, like Bernie Sanders did? Why wouldn't you want something to defeat the above, instead of letting it spread?

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Cold War Reminder (Original Post) ericson00 Mar 2016 OP
The Russians are coming .... again, and they're still ten feet tall! polly7 Mar 2016 #1
"The USSR committed genocides, ethnic cleansing, and deliberate famines..." cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #2
of course the first two do; thus the USSR needed to be countered ericson00 Mar 2016 #13
But the USSR also did it Lans Mar 2016 #16
<<--this Native American desendant Gwhittey Mar 2016 #20
you might want to supply a source G_j Mar 2016 #3
you can see it for yourself ericson00 Mar 2016 #5
So can you...I'd suggest you spend the time watching this Armstead Mar 2016 #7
sorry G_j Mar 2016 #12
Latin American deathsquads = "some unsavory things" Mufaddal Mar 2016 #4
where's your rebuttal to Stalin, Mao, Honecker, Gomułka, Kim, ericson00 Mar 2016 #8
Hey, why stop there? Mufaddal Mar 2016 #22
Perhaps if Ronald Reagan could make a deal with the Iranians, myrna minx Mar 2016 #6
Many, many thousands of Americans died in Vietnam because of your philosophy Armstead Mar 2016 #9
no one said the US was perfect during the Cold War, ericson00 Mar 2016 #10
We are still reaping the results in the form of Islamic terrorism and ME War Armstead Mar 2016 #15
Holy crap. You've gone off the deep end. BillZBubb Mar 2016 #11
there's a big difference between visiting somewhere ericson00 Mar 2016 #14
What rubbish. BillZBubb Mar 2016 #18
I'm actually just not on the fringe of the party because: ericson00 Mar 2016 #19
Down with the Bourgeoisie! Rise proletariat! Cast down the capitalist infidels! Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #17
Report any and all Bernista Activity to your local Clinton group! Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #21
I was a cold warrior hootinholler Mar 2016 #23
I am cranking up my patriotic march tunes right now. noamnety Mar 2016 #24
 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
2. "The USSR committed genocides, ethnic cleansing, and deliberate famines..."
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:03 AM
Mar 2016

Look at my screen name and tell me the United States hasn't done the same fucking thing.

As a matter of fact, look at your first three bullet points and tell me they don't apply to the United States.

You slay me, you really do.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
13. of course the first two do; thus the USSR needed to be countered
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:15 AM
Mar 2016

and the USSR (and imperial Russia, which it suceeded) was much worse to its indigenous peoples than America; ever heard of the indigenous siberians?

In 1918-1921 there was a violent revolutionary upheaval in Siberia leading to the Russian conquest of Siberia as Russian Cossacks under Captain Grigori Semionov established themselves as warlords by crushing the indigenous peoples who resisted colonization.[15] The Russian colonization of Siberia and conquest of its indigenous peoples has been compared to European colonization in the United States and its natives, with similar negative impacts on the natives and the appropriation of their land.[16] The Slavic Russians outnumber all of the native peoples in Siberia and its cities except in the Republic of Tuva, with the Slavic Russians making up the majority in the Buriat Republic, Sakha Republic, and Altai Republics, outnumbering the Buriat, Sakha, and Altai natives. The Buriat make up only 25% of their own Republic, and the Sakha and Altai each are only one-third, and the Chukchi, Evenk, Khanti, Mansi, and Nenets are outnumbered by non-natives by 90% of the population. The natives were targeted by the Czars and Soviets policies to change their way of life and ethnic Russians were given the native's reindeer herds and wild game which were confiscated by the Czars and Soviets. The reindeer herds have been mismanaged to the point of extinction. In just the American state of Arizona, the Native American population outnumbers the total northern Siberian native population of 180,000.[17]


you can read more about it

Lans

(66 posts)
16. But the USSR also did it
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:18 AM
Mar 2016

is a pathetic excuse

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history."


http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302#sthash.Rkzzzblb.dpuf

G_j

(40,367 posts)
3. you might want to supply a source
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:04 AM
Mar 2016

for that complete nonsense about Sanders supporting the USSR against America. Lol

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
4. Latin American deathsquads = "some unsavory things"
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:06 AM
Mar 2016

That's an interesting kind of morality. Thanks for sharing.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
8. where's your rebuttal to Stalin, Mao, Honecker, Gomułka, Kim,
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:09 AM
Mar 2016

etc. being far worse? Castro is among their ranks.

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
22. Hey, why stop there?
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:31 AM
Mar 2016

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family. So I hope to see him often here in Egypt and in the United States." -HRC

I love, by the way, that you're defending Reagan's Latin America policy. I think that is really, really special. Next, tell us about how the School of the Americas graduates are actually human rights workers.

Perhaps you could also revisit Batista, while you're on the subject of Castro, and tell us what a benevolent, democratic leader he was. Or perhaps Pinochet. Or Castillo. Or Somoza. Or Mont. "Papa Doc" Duvalier. Or Banzer. Or the junta that replaced Bosch. Or the junta installed in Ecuador. Or Branco. And that's just Latin America. Should we talk about Suharto? Seko? The Shah?

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
6. Perhaps if Ronald Reagan could make a deal with the Iranians,
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:08 AM
Mar 2016

to hold onto American hostages until after the election, he could sell the Iranians weapons to fund a black ops program to over throw the democratically elected Nicaruigan government. Then that's what will solve our problems.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
9. Many, many thousands of Americans died in Vietnam because of your philosophy
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:09 AM
Mar 2016

And now they're our trading partners.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
10. no one said the US was perfect during the Cold War,
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:12 AM
Mar 2016

but Vietnam doesn't cancel out the cold hard facts (pun intended) listed in the body of the diary.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
15. We are still reaping the results in the form of Islamic terrorism and ME War
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:17 AM
Mar 2016

Why do your thinik Iran hates us so much? Why do you think that much of the "Thiord World" hates us so much.

Much of it was/is residue of what we did with that philosophy.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
11. Holy crap. You've gone off the deep end.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:12 AM
Mar 2016

The lie that Sanders supported the USSR is not going to fly. You fanatics need to quit borrowing republican tactics.

Remember how "draft dodger" Bill Clinton went to the USSR during Viet Nam when he was in college? Does that mean he's a dirty red too? And if so, Hillary must be a communist plant since she married commie Bill.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
14. there's a big difference between visiting somewhere
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:16 AM
Mar 2016

and actively supporting the USSR's Cold War combatants like Bernie Sanders did. A monster difference.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
18. What rubbish.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:19 AM
Mar 2016

You sound like a Reagan supporter. Perhaps you were. You are definitely on the right wing of the Democratic party. Your brand of nonsense won't fly.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
19. I'm actually just not on the fringe of the party because:
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:22 AM
Mar 2016

I support the environment, an active government role in the economy, abortion rights (and I believe under contractions begin it must be legal, which puts me to the left of many Democrats), and LGB rights.

Foreign policy is not a place for left/right. It's a place for correct/incorrect.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
23. I was a cold warrior
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:32 AM
Mar 2016

I have the dolphins and the deterrent patrol pin to prove it.

Unless you have hard evidence, you sir need to simply fuck off.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
24. I am cranking up my patriotic march tunes right now.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:33 AM
Mar 2016


"Our job as Americans and as Republicans is to dislodge the traitors (communist) from every place where they've been sent to do their traitorous work."
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