is that he signed it in September 21st in an election year and almost instantly made radio ads boasting about having signed it, he bragged about it and used his support for it as a sales point to conservative Southern voters.

In his own signing statement he very clearly said: "I have long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages and this legislation is consistent with that position. The Act confirms the right of each state to determine its own policy with respect to same gender marriage and clarifies for purposes of federal law the operative meaning of the terms "marriage" and "spouse"."
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/scotts/ftp/wpaf2mc/clinton.html
He said nothing about thinking it was 'gay baiting' and he recorded ads touting his singing of the bill within 48 hours of having done so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/26/us/politics/bill-clintons-decision-and-regret-on-defense-of-marriage-act.html


Recently Hillary told a whole revised history of DOMA and that was the day I decided she needed to not be the nominee. She claimed DOMA was a bluff to stop an amendment, not that it was gay baiting "DOMA was a line that was drawn that was to prevent going further. It was a defensive action.”

So none of your verbiage fits with hers, nor does her verbiage fit with their actions. He made radio ads promoting himself as having signed DOMA. That's what actually matters when considering motive, not the bullshit spread later on.

Bernie did not endorse gay marriage until after 2006. He endorsed civil unions in 2006. I'm not saying Bernie was bad, but the fact is that he evolved on this issue as well.

has never done any such thing as that. Additionally you are exaggerating to the point of mendacity when you claim 'Bernie opposed it too' because he did not do what they did. He said it was not tactically happening in that moment and it sure as hell did not happen for many years after. He never, ever said he was opposed to marriage equality, he felt it was not obtainable at that time.
Bill said "I have long opposed governmental recognition of same-gender marriages and this legislation is consistent with that position."

Hillary said she opposed personally from a religious position and she hammered that point home in public for her own advantage until 2013. 2013. She was against it. Said so. Repeatedly.

And you have no such quote or instance of opposition from Bernie. The Clintons, both of them, have used DOMA as a selling point for themselves starting directly after he signed it. She called DOMA unassailable in the SCOTUS for years. Bernie voted no on DOMA.

You are attempting to write a narrative that does not exist.

Now. Show me what you have on Bernie. Not your gossipy characterizations but quotes and links. Bill and Hillary bragged about DOMA and said they personally objected to marriage equality and your claim is that Bernie did the same. I say that is utter and total bullshit. Because that's what it is, bullshit.

Yup
Gay - punching instead of hippie - punching to make himself look more "moderate."
She has a history of operating the same way. Jettison whatever issue you need to for perceived political benefit.

With full blessing from the First Lady, who still had "religious grounds" to oppose gay rights, or so she said many years after Clinton signed that piece of bigoted bile.

Ad Touts Clinton's Opposing Gay Marriage
WASHINGTON, Oct. 14— In a radio advertisement aimed at religious conservatives, the Clinton campaign is showcasing the President's signature on a bill banning gay marriages in spite of earlier White House complaints that the issue amounted to ''gay baiting.''

The advertisement also promotes President Clinton's work to protect religious freedom and says he wants ''a complete ban'' on late-term abortions ''except when the mother's life is in danger'' or when a woman ''faces severe health risks.''

It refers to Mr. Clinton's support of the Defense of Marriage Act, which the President signed into law last month, to the dismay of many gay rights advocates. Mr. Clinton signed the law early on a Saturday morning, minimizing news coverage. He said he had long agreed with the principles in the bill but hoped it would not be used to justify discrimination against homosexuals.
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/15/us/ad-touts-clinton-s-opposing-gay-marriage.html


Can't find the audio.

Because it informs us of the character of a candidate, and the kind of influence she is likely to experience from someone very close to her...

I lived through all of the Clinton years. They came in as friends and left sneering at us. I took it personally. I had reason to.

Truly: here is a virtual hug.

And voted against Earl Blumenauer of Oregon at the time for supporting it. He had no excuse. None. Congressman from the most heavily Democratic district in the state... home to one of the largest LGBT concentrations in the country. No excuse.
And this bullshit they're trying to peddle now about how they did it for our own good? Bullshit. It was pure political cowardice.

Third Way or the Highway - and that was all there was to it.

But I did vote another choice on the ballot for that congressional election. Not that it made any difference.

and then go from there. He never said any such thing.

Then show us where Bernie said he was opposed to marriage equality. He never did.

Bernie was calling for repeal of anti gay laws back in the 70's, all of those laws. He has always called for equity and equality not just for LGBT but for everyone, consistently and very unlike Bill and Hillary.

Gay marriage happened first in MA in 2004. It wasn't legalized in VT until 2009. But, again, my point is that relative to their times and their positions, both Sanders and Clinton were pretty progressive. Sanders was progressive relative to liberal VT, Clinton progressive relative to moderate America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

Though his official political position was against same-sex marriage, Clinton criticized DOMA as "unnecessary and divisive",[26] while his press-secretary called it "gay baiting, plain and simple".

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

Sanders did oppose DOMA—but purely on states’ rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont.

...

Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told the Associated Press that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive.”)

Hillary. Bill never said 'gay baiting' as you claimed and your links are to anti Bernie opinion pieces and not one single bit of original sourcing, you are repeating punditry as if it was fact. This makes me wonder why that is. Where is your personal memory, you emotional element in all of this?

Why are you offering more opinion as 'proof' of your opinions.

Bill and Hillary spent decades detailing the specific ways in which they opposed marriage equality both personally and politically. The damning element is the fact that both of them have used DOMA as a positive when pandering to conservative voters, they started doing that as soon as the ink was dry in 1996 and did not stop until 2013. Your claim is 'Bernie did that too'. But he didn't.

The Clintons exploited DOMA before and after the fact for their own advancement. They did not spend the years after DOMA saying 'I hated that gay baiting bullshit'. What did they say? Hillary said during her 2000 Senate run that she would have signed it. That's the fact.

And you link to a blogger who is wildly pro Clinton and who crafted the material you are presenting here, you are just an echo of that person, you got you entire view from that pundit.

Why are you just repeating what Mark Joseph Stern has been pushing for weeks and weeks?

Look, I know a hell of a lot about the gay rights movement. I know Bernie was a progressive in VT, but on the national stage, in the history of gay rights, he played no role. The Clintons played a role because in 1992 Bill Clinton was relatively progressive on the issue from a national stage. It was probably opportunistic, but that's not particularly important to me.

I provided links and info, and you choose to make excuses. That's fine. You're coming from a hero worship point of view. Bernie can do no wrong. I have a more mature view of things and understand why many pro-gay groups, such as HRC, support Hillary. You have the right to dismiss those groups and assume that you know better or that they are actually homophobic.

DOMA was terrible, but again I listed many of things that Clinton did during an era when the right wing was powerful. In the context of the times, Clinton did a lot of good on gay rights, and in the context of a liberal state like VT, Bernie did a lot of good. But, the fact remains he supported civil unions, not marriage. I have no idea who Stern is, but if you want search for Bernie Sanders gay marriage civil unions and you will find a number of links.

You ask me to provide links, and I do, then you dismiss the links of course. Someday you will go out of your hero worship phase and realize it's possible to support Bernie even with his minutemen vote, support for the stealth bomber, support for civil unions over gay marriage, support for gun rights, and so on. I support Bernie because his economic plan is superior to that of Hillary, but there are a number of things I disagree with him on, too. Yet, at the same time, just as I understand why Hillary made the choices she did, I also understand why Bernie made the choices he did.

criticisms of Bernie. This is not the Mad Hatter's Tea Party so that is not really acceptable. You have failed to prove your assertion that Bernie actively opposed marriage equality just like the Clintons did. Because he did not.

You also attack me having evaded any mention of Bill's instant boasting about DOMA to win conservative votes in 1996. He bragged about it in radio ads. Bernie of course voted No on DOMA. Bill exploited bigotry against LGBT in order to pander for votes using DOMA as soon as the ink was dry. He and Hillary both spent years flatly stating that they oppose marriage equality. Bernie has done no such thing.

I was an active political person and successful young professional in an industry that was hard hit by AIDS in the 80's and the 90's. I know exactly what happened, how it happened and what was said. I was there.
This is why I can bring you articles and information while you bring me some blogger out to smear Bernie. Because I am not creating this point of view as a political device of the moment. Anyone reading this can see the depth of the responses you are getting, the videos, the interviews, the articles. The living testimony. You offer a blogger who hates Bernie and excuses the Clintons on DOMA because he loves them. I'll let the readers be the judges.

Same sex marriage, Sanders said it wasn't time. When it came time to vote on DOMA, Sanders cited states rights, not that opposing same sex marriage was wrong.

It took a while before people were ready to advocate for same sex marriage.

You say you agree, prove your case and don't be a batch of furtive button clickers. Show your selves, cite you sources. Put your fucking cards on the table.

You just want to blab on without providing evidence of your own. Show me where Bernie endorsed gay marriage early on. He was ahead of his time, but he evolved like most other people. He supported gay rights early on in one of the most liberal cities in one of the most liberal states. The Clintons supported gay rights relatively early on the national stage in the face of the Christian right and the Republican controlled Congress.

Put your fucking cards on the table because quite honestly you don't much about gay history it appears. You act as if it wasn't a struggle.

http://time.com/4089946/bernie-sanders-gay-marriage/

Many prominent Democrats, including Sanders’ successor as mayor of Burlington and a gubernatorial nominee, spoke out in favor of gay marriage, but Sanders kept mum.

Peter Freyne, a locally beloved Vermont writer and opinion writer whom Sanders later lauded as “the best political reporter in the state of Vermont,” accused the then-Congressman of obfuscating on his gay rights position.

“Obtaining Congressman Bernie Sanders’ position on the gay marriage issue was like pulling teeth … from a rhinoceros,” Freyne wrote. Freyne described repeated attempts to hear Sanders’ views on gay marriage, and the congressman only said he “supports the current process” in the state legislature.

...

But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. “Not right now, not after what we went through,” he said.

urging John Kerry in 2004 to support the Federal Marriage Amendment in order to shore up support among evangelicals?

I think right here I see you're not worth tangling with.

links. Two. In my first post in this thread. And many more in the thread. How dishonest are you, really? I'm the person who posted links and asked for you to produce evidence which you have not provided because it does not exist.

This is exploitative crapola, and if I say what I really think it won't be good.

if they felt supporting them would cost them even a single vote. I remember the 90's well. I remember Hillary's term as Senator. They are NOT friends to the gay community.

They are probably likeable, and they take care of those who support them, but that's about it, IMO.

The bottom line is that both Bernie and Hillary will continue to support gay rights, as Obama has done. I don't care what they said in the past. I'm focused on the future, and I trust them both on this particular issue.

Bernie said Vermont wasn't ready for same sex marriage legislation in 2006 and it wasn't, but he never opposed it.

What he did oppose that year was federal legislation that would have overturned states ssm laws.

Try to keep It factual please, some of us are knowledgeable about his record and this kind of spin isn't going to fly.

I was there and he was right, it would have failed.

And if you bothered to read that quote you'd realize he was saying he didn't want the feds to overturn states that had passed ssm laws.

Here is the ENTIRE quote:

It's right at the top but the whole thing is worth watching really.......for the Iraq War as well....

Why do her supporters keep bringing this up and trying to rewrite history? It's not like she was silent on the issue.

And notice she also defended her decision to support the Iraq war.

It's good that people are reminded of the facts when an attempt to revise history is made.

Knowledge = Life

I notice you're being accused of hero worship upthread, I guess the truth really did sting. So much for the op wanting to discuss the issue. As soon as you provide facts you get personally attacked.

All he's got is some blog presents as authoritative history rather than frothy pro Clinton public relations efforts.

It's pitiful.

And even though she shares her campaign videos with gay couples, she has yet to share an actual frame with one. Plenty of pictures of Bernie being embraced by gay couples, and the only gay couple Clinton has shared a picture with is multi-millionaire Sir Elton John and his husband.

Then there is Bill Clinton's remark: "Hillary has a problem with gay people".

The question begs to be asked why so many gay people don't have a problem with her.

Could you please tell me why your husband supports her. And while you are at it, would you mind telling us your annual family income? I find these "Hillary ain't so bad" posts to usually come from people who have already "got theirs" and don't care if and how we get ours.

"I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman. I have had occasion in my life to defend marriage, to stand up for marriage, to believe in the hard work and challenge of marriage. So I take umbrage at anyone who might suggest that those of us who worry about amending the Constitution are less committed to the sanctity of marriage, or to the fundamental bedrock principle that exists between a man and a woman, going back into the midst of history as one of the foundational institutions of history and humanity and civilization, and that its primary, principal role during those millennia has been the raising and socializing of children for the society into which they become adults."
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4535174/hillary-clinton-gay-marriage-2004

Hillary Clinton to journalist Andrea Bernstein in 2004:

"I would have voted for it at that time but I think to go back and talk about DOMA now especially...is something that is divisive."
http://www.wnyc.org/story/tale-tape-hillary-clintons-gay-evolution/

Bernie Sanders voted NO on DOMA

I'm not too old, but I'm not too young either, and I remember Bill Clinton bragging about how he fucked our families in order to secure religious votes in the South. I was just a gay teenager then, but that shit hurt.

I didn't care for Hillary or Obama messing with us in '08, but I respect the hell out of Obama for coming to us in the middle of a campaign. He will always, always, always be the first American President to support gay equality wholeheartedly, when there was an actual risk.

Hillary eventually came around. When she finally figured there was no risk there.

You know what? Screw that. I'm not voting for someone who likes my family only when they think it's 100% no problem for them to do so. Where is the principle in that? Where's the risk or sacrifice? And when the equality act and other legislation comes around, how much skin will that kind of person have in the game? None. She'll do exactly what she figures is politically feasible for herself. If it's good for her to shelve our equality, she will do so without a blink. Fuck. That.

This Bernie smear is an abomination. He didn't reject marriage. He was describing the political climate in Vermont at the time. Using that to pretend that he was somehow against us is dishonest, awful, and unconscionable.

How dare you.

Seriously, how dare you.

And I don't care what order you managed with your relationship. It matters not at all. I have my family, and I know the score. Wash it up as you wish, but I'll not have your lies.

He admitted he was "evolving" on gay marriage, plus he's much younger. He came onto the stage well after the bigger gay rights struggles. When the Clintons were on stage, the anti-gay movement was near the height of its ferocity, but he ended discrimination at the federal level, appointed scores of gays, advocated for hate crimes laws, and did much more. Comparing the 1990s to the 2000s in gay rights would be like comparing the 1950s to the 1960s in terms of civil rights or the 1960s to the 1970s in terms of women's rights.

Bernie did say no to gay marriage and argued it as a states rights issue, hardly a liberal point of view. But, your right, in the context of VT he was progressive, just as in the context of the US, the Clintons were progressive in my opinion.

There's no Bernie smear here. After all, I voted for him and gave to his campaign, but there's no arguing with hero worshippers. Bernie can do no wrong. You're right. The Human Rights Committee, the largest gay rights group, is wrong -- what in the world are they thinking supporting Hillary. Seriously, how dare me? How dare you? You didn't even grow up in an era of homophobia, so what in the world do you know about the struggle. Like Bernie in liberal VT, you had it easy.

At least you're upfront about it.

"You didn't even grow up in an era of homophobia, so what in the world do you know about the struggle"

Yeah, because being an Irish Catholic child of the 80s and 90s, I knew nothing about how hard the closet was. Do you want to slap them down on the table and measure them, since it seems that's your intent.

I watched a close friend die of AIDS. Is that your yardstick? What qualifications do I need to "know the struggle" in your words?

It's fine to be an ass, but seriously, don't bother. You want to shill? Shill.

But don't ever come at another gay man with your shitsack and be holier than thou in that manner.

Ever.

The presumptuousness and assholery of your approach knows no bounds.

You should be ashamed for bringing this here for the edification of straight people's approval.

Maybe that explains why you're such a rude ass.

My family is awesome, thanks.

You just clearly have no business discussing LGBT anything at this point. Not only do you lack all understanding and empathy, but you cannot even answer BNW's knowledgeable remarks and questions above.

But hey, everybody gets one.

One of the best of this election season, thanks for taking the time to post this.

I was quite politically aware during those years and your recollection of the political climate at that time is right on. I will never believe the hogwash lies being pedaled by those who only care about their particular candidate or ideology again. Revisionist history is bullshit.

all through this thread. This OP is exploitative garbage.

I don't care what hogwash those intent on revising history want to do - I was quite aware of what was happening during that time.