...nonsense spam.

US citizens do not know this, of course.
Castro reached out to the US -- and we would have none of it.
If he was not going to allow us to build our factories and pollute
the pristine land and pay slave's wages, and run our casinos,
and utterly corrupt the place, we were not interested.
Viva Castro, he saved Cuba from being utterly savaged by
the US corporation.

My intended meaning was that the Cuban government, with its socialized medicine, provided good quality medical care to all of its citizens, which is more than the United States could say.

Then they put their families and children at risk fleeing Cuba in rafts to get away from the free health care. Are you serious? Which is it? Either way, I don't think the Cubans who fled Cuba and Castro, at great risk, (or even if it was for economic freedom) would agree with you.

You might have noticed last night that that those affected by this were mostly GOPers. The anti-Castro faction is dwindling.

...that said, the Castros are despicable thugs.

That doesn't mean I believe the U.S.should continue to isolate Cuba. It just means that I think Castro is a brutal dictator who doesn't deserve coddling by progressives looking to prop up the career politician from Vermont.

He is out there for all to see. Look into the Honduras coup and it's results for the people of Honduras. Start with Berta Cáceres. As far as propping up dictators look at Saudi Arabia and HRC.

...curious that Sanders didn't raise those last night.

Hillary's involvement is murky enough that it would not be wise or prudent just to toss it out as a cheap shot.

Unlike the claim that Bernie and the Koch Brothers are best buds, or that Sanders supports repression and violent dictators.

Yes, the aging Cuban exiles in Miami won't vote for Bernie. They probably won't vote for Hillary, either. So, what's the fuss?

...who benefited from the dictatorships (Batista and Castro's).

"Exposing" Bernie for being associated with the Central American anti-intervention movement is just preaching to the RW choir. Not politically significant.

purchased to retire on back then.

Of course they didn't have to leave Cuba on a row boat to Miami, but they were of a contingent of rich American ex-pats who lost stuff in the revolutions in the last century in Latin America. The lesson is that you can support oppressive regimes for your own benefit for only so long before the oppressed start revolting. Unfortunately, historically only a few revolutions have been successful. Usually, they only produce another oppressive regime.

Thanks

... to think that a self-described socialist who praises communist dictators can be elected POTUS cannot be overstated.

a soon to be indicted and proven liar who praises Wall St can be elected POTUS?

... it happens all of the time.

And, she's not going to be indicted.

That's just more delusional thinking.

I'm not a big Hillary fan, but she's the only shot we have at keeping the GOP out of the White House.

Sad, but true.

Bernie would be savaged in the GE.

Sanders has a much better chance, I think probability, of winning than Hillary. All the polls indicate that.

He's trustworthy. Hillary isn't.

She can't swim against that stream.

... but, you know that.

Look, I would've preferred a different candidate.

But, the Repukes have already thrown everything they have at Hillary, and she's still going.

They haven't even started on Sanders, and those videos are gonna provide all the material they need.

authoritarian theocracies. Clinton backs the Saudis who murder homosexuals, oppress women, fund terrorist, and violently suppress any demand for democracy or freedom.

Why would anyone that believes in democracy, liberty and freedom support Hillary? All she'll do is send more weapons to dictators

... just sometimes not as quickly as we'd like.

There are just still too many old, low-info voters out there who vote, and too many young, enlightened voters who talk a good game but don't.

... it's just a carryover from a different forum that I used to participate in, where "conservatives" and progressives would go at it freely.

I only chose it because it drove the wingnutz bonkers.

I probably should change it.

Any suggestions?

But I have an unusual one. if it's Bruce or something maybe not.

Or the $25 million in Saudi royal money donated to the Clinton Foundation. Or the Clinton dealings with USB Bank and Bill's $1.5 million payoff.

Or Hillary's $20million in speeches, cashing in on her public service.

Bernie Sanders all the way!

...for the Sanders camp.

They've misread the Democratic electorate and overestimated Democrats' appetite for feeding on their own.


Alex Burns ?@alexburnsNYT 14h14 hours ago
Still really struck by the phenomenon of a Democratic candidate calling for a political revolution after 8 years of a Democratic presidency

Still lots of states to vote. We'll see.

Plaster Clinton's grimacing mug at the end of each video segment of it. Make sure everyone knows its her campaign.

Bring it.

...she took good advantage of the Castro stuff (raised by the questioners) at the Fla. debate last night.

We'll see how that plays in Fla.


There's probably some favorable stuff in there, revealing a more intimate side of the Senator.

I didn't see it as defending at all.

He was mentioning the reasons why it would be hard to depose Castro due to the support of his people, as they received benefits from his regime. That is when he listed the policies that were enacted that would make the Cubans want to keep Castro.

To me, this is a misstep on Clinton's part since she mentioned in the debate that she would not want any part of that at all... It basically shows a lack of progressiveness on her part, particularly in the issues of education, health care and so forth.

Looking at her answer in regards to her College Education plan, it is effectively the same policy as it is now.
In regards to Health Care, she mentioned at one point that Universal Health Care would not happen in America.

Look, one can say positive things about someone they don't like. In the video clip shown in CNN with a Bernie interview about this, he listed reasons that getting rid of Castro would be hard. To me, this is equivalent to someone in Goldman Sachs saying positive things about Bernie, which I believe was also mentioned in the debates last night.

Bernie praises Cuba's Healthcare and Education system and according to Clinton thats such a horrible thing to do.

She says Bernie is the one supporting brutal dictators she is obviously blind to her own record.

This is the current world we live in, and the way she voted had reasons behind them.
That is why I mention, her stretch attack on Sanders is off base.

Also, current drone policies do not go towards leaders of a foreign state. It goes after leaders of groups, and not of a nation/state. If however it is the regime change policy on Iraq, that we are talking about, then I see where you are coming from.

The problem I have with this type of attack, particularly using the subject of Castro is it is just a little bit ridiculous.

They complain about defending a "brutal dictator" when one is mentioning that "it is hard to depose them, so it may be best not to". The craziness of such a complaint, is that America routinely turns a blind eye in regards to brutal dictators even worse than Castro.

An attack of this sort, is essentially lambasting any one who makes the case that deposing a dictator at the time is not a good idea. Then, if you stretch that line of thought, it advocates for a constant case of regime change, which should not be a foreign policy. I understand choosing one's battles. I expect this line of attack from the GOP, as they make mountains out of molehills not from fellow Democrats.

worse than Castro.

In my opinion if a country is not a democracy, violates human rights, uses murder to stop free speech, is a theocracy that kills non-believers, oppresses women, murders homosexuals, doesnt allow their people to be free or know the blessings of liberty we should cut all ties with them.

Our leaders most definately should not be accepting million dollar donations from these brutal murderers and most definately should not be sending them billions of dollars of weapons. As a Democrat I will denounce any party leader that has such dealings because i do believe in democracy, religious freedoms, womens right, human rights, and liberty.

I agree that our leaders have helped out brutal leaders much worse than Castro.

I might not go as far as where you stand, as I tend to think diplomatic ties are important, and it is a means to keep peace and stability.

Stability to me is very important, and it is the way for improvement elsewhere. Once an area is stable, that is when they are capable of evolving beyond oppression in some ways. From my prior post, I mentioned it is not a good policy to advocate regime change all the time. We can't always get what we want, and cutting ties just like that reduces the capability of influencing others to do better.

An example would be the fact that we can't cut ties with places such as China, and even Saudi Arabia. China has taken so long in improving their state and humane treatment towards their own populace. So, even if I can share much of your values, I consider cutting ties just like that as hurting ourselves and limiting whatever good America can do in terms of leading by example.

Any how, in the end, I was merely stating that the attack towards Bernie during the debate is a stretch and does a disservice for both their campaigns.

He was not a good guy. He was in the pocket of the mob. Castro did the Cuban people a favor taking him out.

...is that really a thing? This guy may be a repressive thug, but the guy he overthrew 55 yrs.ago was worse?

It also doesn't seem like words like 'socialism' and 'communism' send a bolt of fear through the hearts and minds of many people nowadays like many people still expect.

and refuse to engage in hypocrisy, we will admit that the atrocities committed by the ruling class are pretty similar no matter with which political system they identify.

Castro committed atrocities no greater than what our leaders have committed in the past and will continue in secret in the future. Just look at Abu gharaib, regime change in Iraq, water boarding, extra judicial imprisonments, spying on us, bailing out oligarchs with taxpayer $ while taxpayers are barely treading water, children going hungry, lead in our water, Katrina, agent orange, eugenics, Hiroshima, Libya, Latin America.

We just hide our dirty laundry better than Castro's regime. We got media folks! ROFLMFAO yea our media really holds our leaders feet to the fire.

IMO Sanders spoke honestly. Even among the injustices of Castro's regime... there were net positive social changes that transcend politics. And despite that long list in the previous paragraph... there are good things that come out of our shitty political arena also.

Just this past week I read that Cuba has a vaccine for lung cancer they will share with us.

The attack on Bernie because of his common sense analysis of the Cuban regime was unfair and insensitive last night.

...to denounce both countries abuses.

The deference I'd give America is for it's democratic system of governance, and our ability to seek and obtain redress. I don't think Americans need to, or should, put away our own moral compasses as we work to address those.

I always wondered why such a yuuuge, wonderful country like ours took a shitty stance on Cuba yet cozy up to monster regimes like the Saudis.

If we had only normalized trade and relations with this tiny island nation years ago we may have been more helpful as a beacon of democracy for the Cuban people.

IMO only, the oligarchs didn't want us to see that there is good and bad in every political system. It was about greed and not wanting their "slaves" to think critically. That's why they wail "socialism" as if it's a bad thing. Socialism is a healthy part of our democracy. Capitalism serves a purpose also but they would have you think that it is conducive to democracy. It isn't if unregulated.

John F. Kennedy had this right, the Bay of Pigs notwithstanding ..

It was the unabated abuse of Cuban people by Batista -- propped up by USA -- that
made its violent revolutions "inevitable" ... and we need to learn from this history, not
keep repeating it with disastrous regime change fiascos.

Let's have that long overdue conversation and show the US complicity in regime change in Latin America over the years... something the American public is rapidly losing patience with.

Let's go through our history beginning with the explosion on the USS Maine that was used as a pretext to invade Cuba and then install a US puppet government.

And on through the decades Machado, Batista. Then let's look over at Somoza and other dictators involved with the violent deaths of what.. maybe a million people, US bought and paid for.

It's about time.

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 09:23 AM - Edit history (2)

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throughout these ridiculous red-baiting threads.

Hillary's "digital media strategists" are working hard to make this one stick!

You pointing out the absurdity, with humor--is indeed far more interesting than the hand wringing from the oh-so concerned peanut gallery.

That is very nice of you!


I direct comedy movies (working on my first actually, will be out this Summer/Fall) in RL, In posts, It sort of just comes out.

I think the the intentions of the revolutionaries was good. I suppose that my impression that Bernie had not been as supportive of them as I had was probably wrong. I appreciate that you provided this encouraging information!

Recommended!

GMTA!

was taken from to the many segments of Bernie out and about among his constituency talking with them about issues and concerns.

Much of that interview is about how Reagan was supporting conflict in Latin America and that Bernie was against that. That's consistent with Bernie's stance about regime change and war.

Something that has changed is that people now can access the full segments instead of just seeing the snippets. Thank the Internet for that access.



https://m.

Baghdad Jim for his opposition to the Iraq war.

It is well worth watching.

give half a shit about Castro, or how anyone felt about him at any time.

Same goes for red baiting, generally. But go ahead and talk it up. Maybe throw in a rant about the Pinkertons while you're at it.

but try this: Bernie supported Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, and clapped when they beat Custer's team in the election at the Little Big Horn.

...but I only post about issues which I care about, many of which I care deeply about.

My interests don't begin or end with politics, especially not with elections.

[link:https://theintercept.com/2016/03/10/hillary-clinton-stalwart-friend-of-worlds-worst-despots-attacks-sanders-latin-american-activism/|

I could consider her naive other than the fact she has praised him highly in this election cycle and admitted he was on her speed dial when she was SOS. I loathe to think he will be influencing foreign policy should she become President.

May have to flip the sofa and send Bernie all the change resting comfortably in there!

Keep it up.

...

So, donating what I can will help against the smear attempts.

Sorry, feeling under the clouds today.

Come over and support the better candidate, the more honest, the one who's asking for a new political economy.

Give up on your lying, vindictive, opportunistic previous choice and join with us to help make a better world.

...it's a wonder you bother, except when I realize you only mean to injure.

...the old footage of Sanders that I've seen from the collection is both interesting and appealing.

Excerpted transcript from the video above;

"People are intimidated by Reagan, their afraid that he is going to get on the television and give this dramatic speech equating the murderous Contras with the Founding Fathers of our country and that is, that is an insult believe me that is an insult to all Americans and to the people that helped create our country and write our declaration of Independence.

The Contras are not Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine." Bernie Sanders

Reagan had done just that (albeit, not to the American public) several months earlier than this video in March 1985 at a CPAC Dinner.

Remember by this time funding of any military aid to the Contras had already been cut off in the Boland Amendment for fiscal year 1985.

This is going to a a good video package, glad I ordered the whole thing, I might have to get some no doz...lol

...you're like the first one here to go right at it.

I think it'll be really something special for supporters to see the footage.

in some forum.

If I find something in here that leads towards a better decision whether it solidifies it or tears it asunder, this is only a good thing.

Thanks again.

Hell, a Cuban co-worker of mine spent his vacation in Cuba. Had a lovely time and doesn't give a rat's ass about Castro. If this was the 1990's this may have worked, but its been 20+ years that ain't gonna fly with anyone now.

No offense, but that's Democracy In Action.

Interesting stuff.

If you are engaging in such a thing and claim to be any of the above, you are being wholly dishonest about your ideology. Period.

...it doesn't matter what ideology the Castro thugs are operating under, 'Dem/liberals/progressives' in ANY year should not be soft-peddling dictators and dictatorships (especially the DU contingent that's criticizing Hillary for Honduras).

Having said that, if you feel like someone is attacking Hillary Clinton unfairly, then rebuttal them. That would be an approach that has merit, unlike taking Sanders from 30 years ago completely out of context.

...it provides a link to context.

You came on here to defend against distortion, yet you leapt past the context you say you want, to criticize attitudes toward communism or socialism. It's possible to disagree with Sanders comments without even alluding to ideology, which, is just a political refuge for dictators like Castro.

The world has changed.