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bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:42 AM Mar 2016

A few thoughts on last night's primaries from a Sanders supporter

Barring unforeseen circumstances (an indictment, the discovery of some new, major and incontrovertibly true scandal) Hillary Clinton will be the nominee of the Democratic party. This does not make me happy but it's not an unfamiliar scenario. Every contested Democratic election, I choose a candidate who is closest to me on the issues. Sometimes I get inspired, sometimes, though I know better, I fall in love with the idea that a candidate who thinks like me could actually be elected. I doubt I'm the only one here with this sort of record.

I'm almost always disappointed. Barak Obama was the first candidate I voted for in the primaries who actually became the nominee (he was my second choice). Gary Hart, Jesse Jackson, Jerry Brown (twice), Howard Dean and Bill Bradley are a few of my past favorites. To be honest, early in the process I was still hoping that Jerry might come out of California and give it one more try--he'd make a great president--but realistically his age made that impossible.

1. The revolution will not be easy. I think that the Democratic party has made a big mistake by embracing Wall Street and giving the stiff arm to white working class voters by supporting trade agreements that ship their jobs oversees and tacitly joining cheap labor Republicans in supporting unregulated immigration and overly broad guest workers visa programs. I think that throwing out identity politics as a bone for this rest of us much in the way that the GOP throws out guns gods and gays to entice working class voters clearly there are large numbers of Democratic voters who disagree with this. I can understand this. If you're an African-American you are not easily enticed from the tried and true and skeptical of a message that says a rising tide lifts all votes. In your experience that ain't necessarily so.

2. Most Americans are inherently conservative. They will reflexively support order over chaos every time. I wonder how many voters were turned off by seeing people waving Bernie signs while protesting at Trump rallies. Mind you, I'm not saying that these rallies should not have been protested I'm just suggesting that they maybe should have left the Bernie signs at home.

3. For most blue collar Americans the word Socialism is still toxic. Bernie's done a amazing job of explaining his position which has lead to his ability to challenge Clinton so effectively but in the end it's hard to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination.

4. Institutional support matters. Clinton has the open support of the Democratic party establishment and of existing institutions such as the African-American churches and many labor leaders. All the enthusiasm in the world won't overcome that.

5. I hope that Sanders stays in to the end. For one thing I want to cast a primary vote that I can feel good about, for another thing I want to see him pressing her to the end, fighting the good fight, getting some good planks in the platform and maybe press her to pick a running mate I can feel good about; someone like Sherrod Brown perhaps or my old flame Howard Dean (though I'll admit I've soured a bit on the good doctor this cycle). A girl can hope, can't she? Nah, it'll most likely be some old centrist hack like Tim Kaine.

6. The Wall Street Democrats had better start thinking about all of those people whose jobs and lives have been destroyed by the trade deals they champion.

7. I hope that this does not lead to a President Trump or a President Cruz. I hope that Clinton fights as hard (as dirty if necessary) against the Republican candidate as she did Sanders and earlier than that, Obama. She is still a weak candidate with stunningly bad approval ratings among independent voters. Amazing, both parties have managed to elect nominees that most Americans do not like.

I don't like Hillary Clinton or her politics and especially her Wall Street ties but barring some crazy scenario involving multiple third party candidates and both main party candidates disintegrating, I will vote for her in the general election as will most Bernie Sanders supporters. Whether I invest my money, time and effort in getting her elected is going to be up to her.

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A few thoughts on last night's primaries from a Sanders supporter (Original Post) bklyncowgirl Mar 2016 OP
K&R salinsky Mar 2016 #1
No money, no time, no effort..... vi5 Mar 2016 #2
I'm the opposite democrattotheend Mar 2016 #17
I think the worst part of today's posts is not the gloating - that is expected, and oddly djean111 Mar 2016 #3
I will not be taking any loyalty oaths for the corporate candidate. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2016 #13
"Amazing, both parties have managed to elect nominees that most Americans do not like" TCJ70 Mar 2016 #4
You're being more rational than I feel. But one point I disagree with... Armstead Mar 2016 #5
'Bernie is the light side of hope'--I really like that phrase. bklyncowgirl Mar 2016 #8
She's not getting a cent from me or a second's worth of work nt LiberalElite Mar 2016 #6
Hillary may not be great but defeating Trump is reason to be "enthusiastic" cloudythescribbler Mar 2016 #7
I'm open to enthusiasm--or grim determination if you please--just not quite yet. bklyncowgirl Mar 2016 #10
Defeating Trump is a mission, but it doesn't require enthusiasm for our nominee. Vinca Mar 2016 #11
agree. Never a perfect candidate because that is the nature of politics beachbum bob Mar 2016 #9
This is precisely why Trump will lose. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #12
Nicely put, Cowgirl. Nitram Mar 2016 #14
One of the talking heads said one of the women running in Cook County IL oversaw the Chicago Skwmom Mar 2016 #15
K & R enthusiastically....Hillary Clinton supporter here. Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #16
Let's all bow down now....... marions ghost Mar 2016 #18
I'm not suggesting that anyone bow down. Each person has to make their own decisions. bklyncowgirl Mar 2016 #19
 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
2. No money, no time, no effort.....
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:49 AM
Mar 2016

...but my vote. The rest she can get from the Establishment and her Wall Street buddies.

At least now she can stop pretending to be progressive or liberal and tack right as the nominee always has to. She'll seem much more comfortable now.

The worst part is going to be if and when she loses the general election, that all the Dem establishment post mortems will be that she was too liberal and the lesson learned will be that we need to tack even further right moving forward.

This will be the first time in 35 years of voting that I've had to hold my nose to vote for the GE candidate, and I'm predicting it's the end of a very long and loyal relationship between myself and the Democratic party.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
17. I'm the opposite
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:32 AM
Mar 2016

I will give her my time and maybe even money, depending on my personal financial situation. I am committed to supporting her if she is the nominee, but my vote she has to earn. I know that sounds perverse, but I live in a solidly blue state where my vote does not much matter, and part of me would be happy to see a reverse of 2000, where the Democrat wins the electoral college but loses the popular vote. My feeling is that if both parties get screwed by the electoral college within 16 years, maybe there will finally be enough support for overhauling this arcane, undemocratic system.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
3. I think the worst part of today's posts is not the gloating - that is expected, and oddly
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:54 AM
Mar 2016

comforting, as it confirms my belief that I am on the correct side of things.
The worst part will be all the flowery loyalty pledges.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
4. "Amazing, both parties have managed to elect nominees that most Americans do not like"
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:54 AM
Mar 2016

This is her only potential saving grace. The question for voters this time will be "Do I dislike Hillary or Trump more?" A sad commentary on this cycle if you ask me. It's really too bad she was so successful with her distortions and outright lies.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
5. You're being more rational than I feel. But one point I disagree with...
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 07:58 AM
Mar 2016

I don't think Americans are inherently conservative. Somewhere around half the population or less are..

But I think the biggest majority has become inherently cynical and apathetic about politics because they think "they're all the same."

I think Bernie broke through that wall for many people. I think it's a shame the Democrats fail to appreciate the fact that Bernie is the light side of people's desire for hope.

Paradoxically, I think hope is also at the base of the appeal of Trump. He is appealing for a desire for change, not conservatism. He appeals to hope, although it's a twisted for of it. His racism and sexism and otehr awfulness aside, people sense that he is not one of the "same old, same old" grey power brokers who just sit around fiddling around. That's why he's engenders such enthusiasm.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
8. 'Bernie is the light side of hope'--I really like that phrase.
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:07 AM
Mar 2016

I agree with you that most Americans are more liberal than they think. What I was thinking about is a more emotional conservatism, a fear of chaos. This is particularly true of African-American voters. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know and is certainly better than the one you know to be the devil. This may explain why so many Democrats, Democrats who might have voted for Sanders, in Ohio voted for Kasich in order to stop Trump.

cloudythescribbler

(2,586 posts)
7. Hillary may not be great but defeating Trump is reason to be "enthusiastic"
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:02 AM
Mar 2016

I am a Bernie supporter too. It is telling that he consistently does better in one-to-one matchups w/Trump AND other Repugs.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
10. I'm open to enthusiasm--or grim determination if you please--just not quite yet.
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:13 AM
Mar 2016

Clinton could still surprise me. She could choose a running mate I like. She could embrace a populist message and most importantly surround herself with people who are not the same old same old same old and even if she doesn't, if it looks like she's going to lose to Trump or (far less likely) to Cruz, I'll have to be on her side.

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
11. Defeating Trump is a mission, but it doesn't require enthusiasm for our nominee.
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:19 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary is like nails on a chalkboard to me, but we can't allow Trump to be elected. He's not only uninformed, he's totally nuts and dangerous. I can imagine him using nukes on ISIS, for example.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
9. agree. Never a perfect candidate because that is the nature of politics
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:08 AM
Mar 2016

sanders is a great guy, I have followed and enjoyed his speeches for 30 years but to me that doesn't translate into leadership. I have posted numerous times that he would be destroyed by the rightwing media in this country if he turn up as our nominee.....he has NEVER faced that before and he would not survive their cannon salvos of hate and fear....hillary is far from perfect but she has been attacked for 30 years by this media and has survived it....given the choice of any democratic nominee vs any conservative nominee, I'd cut off my right arm before ever NOT voting for the democratic one....I can't and any/all democrats, progressives and liberals who love their country CAN'T allow any conservative to enter the whitehouse.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
12. This is precisely why Trump will lose.
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 08:21 AM
Mar 2016
Most Americans are inherently conservative. They will reflexively support order over chaos every time. I wonder how many voters were turned off by seeing people waving Bernie signs while protesting at Trump rallies. Mind you, I'm not saying that these rallies should not have been protested I'm just suggesting that they maybe should have left the Bernie signs at home.



We have seen analogues in previous elections. Middle America sees the chaos Donald Trump engenders and are appalled. There is not a plurality or majority of Americans who have the stomach for a trade war with China, rounding up and deporting twelve million undocumented workers and their families, building a forty foot wall on our southern border, banning all Muslims from the United States, and treating women like ersatz escorts and pole dancers, seeing pitched battles in the streets.

Actually, the analogue is the Edwin Edwards v David Duke Louisiana gubernatorial race.


Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
15. One of the talking heads said one of the women running in Cook County IL oversaw the Chicago
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:11 AM
Mar 2016

protest and I believe she supports Clinton. Go figure.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
18. Let's all bow down now.......
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:48 AM
Mar 2016

" I hope that Clinton fights as hard (as dirty if necessary) against the Republican candidate as she did Sanders.."

"as dirty as necessary" -- this is what is wrong with this country

------
"both parties have managed to elect nominees that most Americans do not like" and the logical conclusion is that people should keep doing that?

---------
"Wall Street Democrats had better start thinking about those whose jobs have been destroyed..." (better start!?)

etc etc

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
19. I'm not suggesting that anyone bow down. Each person has to make their own decisions.
Wed Mar 16, 2016, 12:09 PM
Mar 2016

Mine is, barring unforeseen circumstances, to continue to support Sanders in the primary and to vote for Clinton in the general.

I despise the nature of politics as much as you do but I'm a realist. Trump or Cruz are not going to be sweetness and light no matter who the Democrats are running. I hate the idea that both candidates are repellent to the majority of Americans and this is going to be the ugliest campaign in American history. I would have it differently but it is what it is.

Have Wall Street Democrats every given a damn about the ordinary American's lives they've callously destroyed--no. But dismissing a large part of the electorate for campaign contributions is a pretty good way to lose elections.

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