Lead the way.

the fact that the wealthier you become empathy for others tends to decrease. This IMO plays a HUGE part in who you support. Why rock the boat when you have the best cabin on board????

I have seen nothing nice from you the last few weeks when speaking of or to Bernie supporters.

From what I've seen you and a couple others have been one of the most vitriolic and alienating posters recently.

My advice to you:

If you can't resist being an asshole to people whom you so desperately need to vote for your candidate in November....you should probably shut your piehole. You make your path more difficult with every shitty post you make.

Spare me

come out with your hands up and if you are lucky maybe we won't shoot you.

Shame on you.

"Clinton supporters are your enemy".

Shall I go on?

statements about Hillary and statements about Hillary's supporters.

I think statements about Hillary are ok, just as Hillary supporters think statements about Bernie are ok.

I think frustration with each's supporters is ok as well. I haven't seen that "enemy" comment and would agree that one is a little over the top.

will judge you by the company you keep." Truer words....

They bragged about running the board...

many of those posting RW conspiracy theories are actually supporters. But they spew that shit with a lot of support. Vagina threads this morning, with people agreeing before the inevitable lock. Ugly shit. Lots of people who cannot tolerate the hatred have been waiting it out till the haters leave.

n/t.

I have tried hard to look past those wrapped up in anger, and those gleefully posting CT bullshit to muddy the waters here. But the last couple of months were so OTT as far as I am concerned, that the "integrity" angle stopped holding up. Sadly, there are too many on both sides who want to wrestle in the mud over nonsense. Not going there.

This Bernie supporter found it extremely offensive.

I, and other Bernie supporters, have been the personal recipient of tremendous hatred from HRC supporters.

Too many trolls get a pass.

recs did we see there? Way too many of them. As did the Stockholm Syndrome OP. A jury might have kept the Vagina thread the way things have been going here.

I do not lump you in with the people who let that shit fly around here, not at all. please don;t feel that way. but they were allowed to basically take over GDP with crazy RW shit for way too long. so much so that "fuck her with a brick" stands with juries.

and a few other Bernie supporters. That thread also targeted LGBT. I ripped the OP to bits. And many other Bernie supporters did as well. The fact that this is never ever mentioned when that OP is used to tarnish all Bernie supporters cheeses me off. It's dishonest and a form of character assassination. I could not have said more than I said without being thrown off of DU. And yet that is not credited to me or to Bernie's side at all, nope, it is denied and erased so that this narrative about that OP can continue. I think that thread is the fault of the man who made it. I think pretending all the Bernie supporters loved that thread is mendacious.

decent amount of recs. Overall the atmosphere has been poisoned, and I hope it ends soon.
I appreciate that many here who are firmly on SBS side push back as well. Thank you of that!

So there's that.

They've made it clear we aren't wanted. Okay.

that received a shitload of nasty replies. Very convenient!

I didn't have one now it is over 300 and maybe higher.. But in all fairness there are some Bernie supporters on there also.. Bad is bad no matter who they support.

apparently.

Maybe I was seeing things.

Oh well.

I don't have to explain it beyond that, do I?

Hence the word "Camp".

And they do; they follow this way and that way dutifully and unquestioningly, as if they had no core convictions of their own. It is an unnerving phenomenon, like what we see with Trump supporters. They, too, accept every L/R switch their candidate takes.

Not good.

But you know that, don't you?

so I welcome your continuing the conversation. I'll say what I wish I had said -- because it's more accurate than what I wrote -- and then I'll discuss the "insult" aspect of what I did say.

1) What I should have said: The weathervane is Hillary and the "camp" are her followers.

That perfectly sums it up and it is much simpler. Because the point isn't her followers' blind following; it's her switches. Those who are "in her camp," are in Camp Weathervane. See? Simple and straightforward.

2) I do occasionally get angry out here, usually when others are deliberately dishonest, gamey, or insulting themselves. When I get angry, I occasionally say something with the intent of "hitting back."

However, I did not intend to insult her followers when I said that they seem to accept anything she says and does. Perhaps not all of them do; perhaps it's only the ones who post prominently here. I find it very distressing but do not say it in the spirit of "insult." I say it in the spirit of "complaint" or "remonstration," because it scares me when they do that. Unthinking followers (e.g. Trump supporters) are scary in a democracy.

Your basic premise is that in order to support Clinton, one must be either unprincipled or unthinking.

Perhaps we are neither. Perhaps we weigh some issues as less consequential that you do, or see a nuance that has escaped you, or perhaps we don't agree with everything our candidate says, but don't find our differences great enough to withdraw our support. We may even value personal qualities of our candidate, her temperament, demeanor or experience as important factors that outweigh any disagreement with her on some specific issues.

I've been involved in Democratic politics for more than 40 years, volunteering for candidates and advocating for many, many issues. I came to my present position through long experience and reflection. I am hardly unthinking about it.

If you all could more carefully explain your reasons for supporting Hill, you might find Bernie supporters to be receptive. You cannot even imagine the degree of revulsion and disgust I've developed for the majority of Hill supporters who show absolutely NO interest in principles, values, and issues, who instead post condescending, one-upsmanship, crass recitations of poll numbers or other numeric data that make Hillary look inevitable and Bernie look hopeless, with a nasty dose of "ha ha" triumphalism -- either that or endless accusations against us as sexist and racist in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I've been a Democrat as long or longer than you have, and although I distrust in-group party politics, have volunteered for candidates and otherwise promoted (via letters to the editor and later, online forums), Democratic candidates with great enthusiasm, most recently President Obama, for whom I worked my butt off. I have also gathered in rallies and marched in demonstrations for peace, abortion rights, worker rights, various issues, etc. since the sixties.

Y'all haven't been very friendly nor have you been communicative.

I've done a lot of door knocking and phone banking in my day, and the first thing you learn is, as soon as you ID a person as supporting the opposition, you move on. You get the votes you need by convincing undecided and uninterested people to support your candidate, not by wining over supporters on the other side.

But still, we all like to talk politics, so here we are. Mostly, I make wisecracks, that's how I let off steam.

It has nothing to do with her supporters who cannot influence her stands on the issues.
The word "weathervane" refers to the way that she shifts her opinions with the winds of the polls and public opinion.

Just explaining what I think that term is intended to mean.

I don't think I have ever used it in a post before.

He doesn't flip positions based on focus groups or internal polling.

Now he opposes immunity. Didn't he also vote against Ted Kennedy's immigration reform bill?

Weathervane indeed.

Care to have a bet on how long it takes her to pivot rightwards after she gets the nod?

LOL it's mild to the chit I have seen from your side and from your own very keyboard.

Even in the Hillary forum, people get alerted on for trying to get away from the hate.

It even more lately.

Is what they want you to do. They want you to forget all of the lies and smears she threw at Bernie- it was just how the political game is played they'll say. And fall in line like good little sheep. For the good of the party, you know?

Give me a break. We've only begun to fight.

Kindness is being called that, ffs.

The Bernie supporters have energized and liberalized the Democratic Party, and Bernie is not out of the running yet. Though his odds of winning are slim, it's odds of having a major impact remain high. But, I think we need to recognize that the vast majority of Bernie and Hillary supporters are good people. For some reason, we gravitate to the comments by the jerks.

Same with Clinton supporters. Do you feel I deserve some of these names I have been called? Sexist, racist, anti-semetic?

"And you have no right to both spew at us now and then demand our support later."

Your worldview should not be formed by way of "someone on the internet was mean to me. I have also not demanded your vote. I expect you to use the information available to you and to make the best decision you can.

I don't get that. I will vote for Sanders if he wins. His supporters who have called me the names above are insignificant to my political views.

You know what happens when you do that. Well I hope you do.

come post in the Bernie group and lower your blood pressure.

Not only are they poor losers, they are also poor winners.

I'm just happy I don't know any of those people in real time because they're not the sort I would ever associate myself with.

that many Hillary supporters have been hidden or banned for ridiculous reasons

hate for Hillary and making it to the Greatest Page, alerts on anyone who dares to criticize Bernie, creeping into the Hillary Clinton Group to insult Hillary and her supporters, bringing the most hate filled posts about Hillary here and laughing about it, calling Hillary Supporters Republicans.

This place has turned into a cesspool.

good Democrats for months.

a candidate to take the Democratic Party forward..we do not agree on platform,
nor their candidates reputation with WS and past policies for trade and continual
military conflicts.

Clinton's Brock campaign was not constructed by anonymous online people saying
horrid things about Hillary..those were paid in full attacks on Bernie, sanctioned by
Clinton herself.

If you believe greed, corruption and the injustice it brings was a priority to vote
against you wouldn't be supporting her in the first place. If I was thin skinned
I would not participate in an online political forum.

You're a very nice guy Ken, yet I would not sweat it..they'll say as they please
and there are juries too..for both sides.

Bernie's folks are responsible for their fair share of the vitriol.

I remember the "Master/servant style of population" after SC

There is also this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511373879


There is also this thread about racist treatment toward African American supporters of Clinton

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7654272

It's possible to "win" and yet be left with nothing but a heap of ashes.

To claim that the Sanders supporters here are undeserving of it is a bit of a pearl-clutching moment given how much venom HRC and her supporters receive here.

Bless your heart.

Yeah there is.

just a week ago in the aftermath of Bernie's upset win in Michigan. Some of the BSers can dish it out big time, but they can't take it when the table has turned.

If there is one candidate whose supporters can honestly say they don't deserve the vitriol they've been getting, it sure as hell isn't Sanders.

who now call Democratic Senators obstructionists!

To denigrate her supporters repeatedly? And no I'm not looking for links. I don't want to call people out. Feel free to search.

Would you be okay with that? What if there were thousands of links to show how she did would you even bother to look or would you say no she didn't do that and not look. What if she didn't do anything directly herself, but stood by her husband as he raked in contributions from a company that never screened for AIDS and thousands of people died as a result. Would you be okay with her staying with such a man?

Some of us have been called every name in the book, including being downright stupid.

The viciousness toward Hillary and her supporters has been off the hook around here for MONTHS on end.

Don't even go there...

Wow.

a sight to behold. I'd laugh my ass off if I didn't think it was indicative of something very serious and weird.

We're having a little partay in the AA forum to welcome back some old friends! Please come in!!

that Hillary has led Trump in the polls for months now and the memo they were pushing about how only Bernie could defeat Trump was bogus, I can safely say that there's been plenty of vitriol coming from the Sanders camp as well. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I could swear that I read that somewhere.

This is hilarious. I rarely even go to GDP because of the CONSTANT trashing of the Hillary supporters.

Now you all have your little feelings hurt? Politics might be a bit harsh for all of the fragile BS folks it appears.

Her supporters "brain damaged?" That's just two off the top of my head.

We will all be forgiving a lot on the road to unity, and that's the only polite thing I am going to say about that.

...and decide to stop fighting back first. I know it's human nature to lash out when attacked but it needs to stop somewhere.

As a Hillary supporter I would prefer it if 'my' side stopped retaliating first and won with grace.

Come on, you have to admit that some on both sides have been extremely mean-spirited. That being said, no one 'deserves' retribution, imo.

I prefer to take the Obama approach to nasty comments -pretend like it didn't happen.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

If you had been reading this forum for any time at all you would realize how shallow and vengeful the Clinton supporters are.
They don't deal with actual issues or facts. . .all they talk is the "horse race", and they do it with a big heap of "smug" and "disdain". It's just who they are, what they do. Why should you expect anything else now?
They think we're down and out and that's what cowards do, kick you when you're down.
But we really aren't down and out, so stop playing like you are.

3rd wayers
war-mongers
slave-master mentality
dinos
corporate slaves
...etc

On top of eight months of bashing us on how we aren't real progressives. Hillary supporters have taken a lot of shit in the last eight months and we're outnumbered 8-1.

And just FYI, I think you should vote to finally give us a liberal USSC. But if you can't figure that out on your own there is nothing I can do to help you.

Clinton and her supporters have been treated like shit on this forum for months.

have done so much longer than this primary season. They are just bad people.

They are not your political ally, they are not your friend. They are people you should avoid at all costs.

Maybe not you personally, Ken, but certainly a large majority of Sanders' online support. Now you're reaping what was sown, and you want to change the rules mid-game. Probably because you're aware of how bad Sanders supporters have been and can expect an equal pushback from here on.

I've been a Democrat since I could start voting. I'm not pulling the lever for any candidate that calls me, my party, or my candidate such baseless insults. Especially not someone who is saying such things despite caucusing with that same party for nearly his entire career. Fuck, Sanders wouldn't even BE a Senator if Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer hadn't agreed to actively undermine any Vermont Democrat that tried to run against Sanders. He's still be splitting the vote with the Democrat, and Vermont would have a Republican Senator instead.

Karma is a boomerang. What you throw out there, comes back to you.

I mean....wow!

This is a very frustrating thread to read. The first many posts I read didn't leave me with any idea what anybody was really talking about. What seemed very clear, though, was that some of the participants began already mad at each other over past accusations or slights. They weren't bothering to explain what it was all about....though eventually some of the issues related to the actual campaigns began to trickle out.

I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter. Bernie's positions are more like what I think a Democrat ought to stand for. Hillary Clinton, at this point, my second choice. When O'Malley was in the race, she was third. There might be a lot of Democratic women I might rank above O'Malley or Bernie, or Hillary, but they didn't run in the primary. Bernie and Hillary have each pledged to support the other if that's who get's the nomination. I guess that make each the other's second choice.

I can understand how people who agree with Hillary's challenges to Bernie's positions or goals could become very worked up about those issues. I can see how people who agree with and are inspired by Bernie's positions and goals, and who agree with his challenges to those of Hillary, could get worked up, too. However, to personally attack one another, looks more like the Republicans.

I live in Illinois. RIGHT NOW we have an incompetent, arrogant, billionaire, Republican autocrat for a governor. He won't compromise with the state legislature in the interest of creating a budget. No state budget for over a year. State universities have started going bankrupt. This governor won't do anything unless the legislature first passes all the points of his no-billionaire-left-behind "Growth Agenda" first. We're talking union-busting galore, etc.

So, I don't want to have another incompetent, arrogant, billionaire, Republican autocrat, like Trump in the White House. And I don't want a conservative fake-Christian wingnut like Cruz there either. I think we are lucky to have two strong candidates running for the Democratic nomination -- rather than the mostly bigoted clown car act we've been watching on the Republican side.

Bernie is going to be in the race all the way to the convention, and that would be the case if he were only getting a tenth of the support he is getting. I would expect the same of Hillary if Bernie were ahead in delegates now. I think Hillary, if not her supporters, should be grateful to have Bernie as an opponent, even if his challenges about her record and positions feel frustrating. Her campaign had a very lackluster appearance, for whatever reason, before she had debated with Bernie a few times. I think those debates have helped her focus, and rethink just what she needed to say to voters about why she was running. Long-time Hillary supporters didn't need her to fine-tune and refine her message, but other potential voters DID.

As a supporter of Bernie, I hope he will keep pushing Hillary for answers about her record and positions that are concerning to him and to many of his supporters. If she deals with those issues now, she'll be a stronger candidate -- if she's selected at the convention. She'll also be a stronger ally for Bernie, if he becomes the Democratic presidential candidate. Likewise, Bernie's more fully answering Hillary's challenges will make him stronger, and he will need that whether: 1) he becomes the candidate, 2) he continues to fight for those positions in or outside of government, 3) if he serves in a Clinton administration.

If Bernie becomes the candidate, he is going to NEED all of the Hillary Clinton supporters. If Hillary becomes the candidate, she is going to need all of the Bernie Sanders supporters. Whoever is the candidate will not only need to get elected, but will also have to sweep Democratic majorities back into BOTH branches of Congress if they are be successful in office. If any of the supporters on either Democratic side decide to let * the perfect become the enemy of the good * and withhold their support after the convention, they will be in effect voting Republican. They might as well be voting for Trump or Cruz right now. No matter what grievance you have about either Bernie or Hillary, the harm you are concerned about can't be a hundreth of the real harm a Republican president and congress will do to this country.

Take a few breaths and get some perspective, is all I ask. Attacking each other works against both Hillary and Bernie, and brings us all closer to to the very real fires of a Trump-Cruz-Hell.

demonize him early - and everyone who stood up for his message. Truth is scary and attracts people who desperately need the solutions he offers. Many here needed to try to stop that * post haste.

My first post since today's amnesty.

I'm not gloating or not calling for Sanders to leave the race.

But I am determined to be an adult in the room.

To say Sanders supporters have done nothing to deserve the vitriol is so myopic and against reality, it's hard to take it seriously.

Go look up Stockholm Syndrome on this board and get back to us.

And I also believe there was a post that had something to do with Hillary Clinton and a brick while I was gone...

And one about "two peas in a neo-conservative pod"….

I could go on at length.

But the facts are there even if some don't want to see them.

You wouldn't be receiving any blowback now. Yet it strayed very far from that.

Check out my sig line. You should find one of the comments familiar.

I never said anything of the kind.

I have stayed focus on public statements during the campaign and while in congress, his voting record, and my assessment of the believability of his claims. As a voter, I have a responsibility to inform myself on all of that.

I am just reminding you of some of the rhetoric that has been thrown about -as your sig line is designed to remind us of the ugly things said about Hillary.

It happens more on your side towards us, you just don't see it or think it's OK. We were ran off the board, we were silenced by you guys. Skinner made it so we could come back. I am not demanding your support now or ever. I want you to vote your conscience. I was on the fence at first until I saw the horrific and massive negative hate from the Bernie supporters. It left a bad taste in my mouth. I chose Hillary because her supporters seemed to be more classy. That is just MY OPINION.

Um? My bookmarks are filled with evidence of how much nicer and less vitriolic people are being compared to how they were treated. I myself am being very chill. Compared to how folks treated me.

Looks like you struck a nerve.

We Bernie supporters will go right on pointing out the many reasons Bernie is the better candidate and comparing his views with Hillary's. If the other side doesn't like it, tough.

We're all, hopefully, adults here and can make up our own minds when it comes to casting a ballot. No one's vote should be taken for granted by any candidate, and all votes should be earned.

Given what's happened out on the campaign trail and what's been said in debates, I don't see a lot of hope for kissing and making up prior to November. Bernie supporters are progressive minded and interested in systemic change. Hillary and her supports tend to be more invested in the status quo and less interested in shaking up the system. This has not been a particularly favorable political year for the establishment, so it remains to be seen what the voters will do on November 8th if the choice is Hillary v.Trump.

One thing's for certain. A statement from a Hillary supporter proclaiming "We don't need your vote," which was directed at a Bernie supporter on another DU thread, was the very height of arrogance and was delusional and extremely counter-productive. Hillary would very much need our votes in the general, and it's about time her supporters here started addressing some reasons why their candidate should earn our trust, because what I've seen and heard so far hasn't been the least bit convincing.

... is not a crime.

But that's not the only thing BSers have been doing here for months, is it?

I have seen HRCers (myself among them) called stupid, low-info voters, warmongers, Republican-lite, water-carriers for the 1%, liars, corporate shills, and self-serving elitists who support Hillary because we are led by our vaginas while suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

I have seen Hillary called a shrill, lying Republican, Wall Street whore. I have seen every prominent Democrat - people like John Lewis - called bought-and-paid-for sell-outs because they endorsed HRC over Bernie.

And just BTW, NO ONE is demanding your support - or even asking for it. And we won't be.

Come November, there will a choice between voting for the Democrat or the Republican. Vote as you please - or don't vote at all.

But don't hold your breath waiting for any HRC supporter to come beggin'. Either you'll do the right thing, or you won't. That's on you.

Nobody is ever going to demand your support. It is your responsibility to vote or not.

And Bernie Supporters are in the way.
Its funny but it seems like They would rather lose with the Anointed weaker general election candidate than Win with the one who has the best chance of luring undecideds and independent voters.
Hillary has a built in fan base and that glass ceiling with all of the cracks in it are being repaired by women who just don't like her.
It has nothing to do with her Gender and everything to do with her and her record.
She has zero courage,and I question her integrity after her Iraq war vote and her bullshit reason for supporting it.

paying attention.

your support isn't necessary; Hillary will do just fine without your support, so don't flatter yourself.

And incidentally, supporting Hillary is not a crime.