2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders vows to fight until convention
Bernie Sanders early Wednesday insisted that he will continue to campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination until the party's convention in July despite narrowed prospects.
"I congratulate Secretary Clinton on her victories on Tuesday. I also want to thank the millions of voters across the nation who supported our campaign and elected delegates who will take us all the way to the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia," Sanders said in a statement.
With more than half the delegates yet to be chosen and a calendar that favors us in the weeks and months to come, we remain confident that our campaign is on a path to win the nomination.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/273194-sanders-vows-to-fight-until-convention
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)and the kids back in town.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)its called "priorities!"
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)All the southern states went first, and spring break hits when its time to vote. Considering the margins of victory, I think spring break alone probably made the difference between him winning and losing several states.
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)The Democratic primary schedule has been honed (See History: DNC, DLC, Dem. rules committee, etc.) to prevent insurgency candidacies in their tracks. It is not a coincidence that Ohio, Illinois, North Carolina and Florida primaries fall during spring break. College students are the grist that make insurgent campaigns happen. Pull them out of the equation and suddenly the insurgent campaign is body-blocked (what we all just witnessed).
DanTex
(20,709 posts)He had a great run, but it's over. Time to put country first, Bernie.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)but I'm sure Bernie will handle staying in race in a much better way than others have in the past...
DanTex
(20,709 posts)and endorse Hillary, and help get the party unified to defeat Trump. The next month or so will tell us a lot about how much value Bernie places on the future of the nation versus his own ego.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)for awhile longer IMO you should just get use to the idea..............
DanTex
(20,709 posts)but if he doesn't put the nation ahead of his ego, he could end up squandering that.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Who have funded the campaign single-handedly without big corporate and super PAC money. The least he will do is stay in the running and continue to push Hillary from the left, the most, win the nomination
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...to talk about helping to "get the party unified".
Really.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)After all, 8 years ago, Hillary championed the right of voters like me in states with later primaries to have a say.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Having said that, Hillary still hung on too long in that one. But she redeemed herself by vigorously supporting Obama after it was over. Hopefully Bernie will do the same.
The sooner he gets on board the better. The goal now is to make sure Hillary beats Trump/Cruz.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)He has said that he would unequivocally. But as a New York voter, I would feel very cheated if I did not have the chance to cast a vote in a contested primary. Nobody fought harder than Hillary for the right of people like me to have a say, and I agree with her on that (and I did at the time too, despite being an Obama supporter).
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)A Whitewater Chronology (The Wall Street Journal May 28, 2003)
What really happened during the Clinton years
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122721127833145225
He doesn't put the 1% 1st. He isn't a New Dem/Third Way sellout.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Kissenger, Trump, Cheney, the BFEE, etc like she does.
We NGU friend. Sticks and stones and all that, if you catch my NLP/drift DanTex.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Dillion, Read & Co. Inc. and the Aristocracy of Prison Profits Part II (Catherine Austin Fitts March 2006)
http://narconews.com/Issue40/article1650.html
DanTex
(20,709 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Bernie has the best chance of winning the GE. It's been that way for MONTHS.
There's a real difference between a campaign where it's only Democrats voting and one where the Democrats are only 31% of the voters.
For the good of the country, Hillary, bow out of your vanity campaign.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I think that Bernie would have a very weak GE candidate, and I'm thankful that the Democratic electorate has chosen wisely. But that doesn't matter either.
What matters is: the primary is a done deal, Bernie can't win, the people have chosen Hillary. Evidently most Democratic primary voters agreed with me. So the only question now is what can Bernie do to maximize Hillary's chances of beating Trump. And what he can do is suspend his campaign, endorse her, and begin bringing his supporters, some of whom may have sore feelings, onboard.
The sooner the better.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)"It doesn't matter what you think about Bernie's chances vs Trump. I think that Bernie would have a very weak GE candidate, and I'm thankful that the Democratic electorate has chosen wisely. "
Narcissistic much??
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Hillary is now going to be the nominee, for better or for worse, and what matters now is making sure she beats Trump/Cruz.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)Against Hillary. Last I heard, he still won the Presidency. So don't write Bernie off. There is no reason to and history does not support your logic.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Obama was never nearly as far ahead as Hillary is now.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)There is a first time for everything. We never went to the moon. That was thousands of years of history. We never had a black president, that was history.
Hillary Clinton won in the states that she was expected to win in. No surprise. Bernie Sanders came in very close in more of Hillary Clinton territory and won some states in those areas as well.
Consider that Bernie Sanders was a virtual unknown. Hillary Clinton was a household name running in states that were heavily favoured for Hillary Clinton. Look at what happened. If Hillary Clinton would have gained the popularity percentage even close to what Bernie Sanders has, she would be a runaway right now.
The upcoming states have more than half of the delegates left and they are far more favourable for Sanders. So at this point there is no reason for Sanders to drop out.
Besides, Bernie Sanders is running to bring a voice to the middle class and to let the middle class know that they do have a voice. He wants us to start to really fight for ourselves and he is telling us that it is possible for us to have more than the Government is giving us. I mean that we pay taxes but we aren't getting the benefits back from them that we should be getting back. He is empowering us now and he will continue to do so after the election, either way.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If history is so strongly against you, it's probably not a good idea to bring it up as part of the argument. Just saying.
It's not just history against you here, though, it's also math. And math is ruthless.
Bernie fans have been making the same arguments you've made for months, and they've been wrong over and over. Bernie was supposed to win Iowa, with its liberal white Democratic electorate. Then after New Hampshire he was supposed to have momentum. Then AA voters were supposed to rally to him once the "learned" about him. Then the calendar was supposed to turn Bernie-friendly after Super Tuesday. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
At this point, at 300+ delegates up, almost 3 times the largest lead Obama ever had, it's done. Sure, he'll probably win Utah and Wyoming and a few others, but there's no way he gets the kinds of margins he needs in the larger states. Not even close. In fact, he'll probably lose most of them. NY, for example, is a large, closed primary, with a diverse population. Bernie loses there. And every time he loses, particularly a big one like NY, the margin he needs in the rest of the states grows even larger.
jfern
(5,204 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)deurbano
(2,895 posts)She got criticized even for that.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)Oh maybe they should both just campaign till the end and see which one wins.
And may the the best man win
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)simply - should
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)and those are Democratic voters we're talkin' about
he is putting people who don't have a lot, like me, first.
Mister Ed
(5,940 posts)It showed me that she's a never-say-die scrapper who won't fold in the face of adversity. That's a quality a good president must have, and it's one of many reasons I'll be enthusiastically supporting her in the now-extremely-likely case that she is nominated.
For now, I'm glad that Sanders is determined to take his battle all the way to the convention floor, and hammer his populist principals into that floor as platform planks. And maybe, just maybe, even pull off a tremendous upset. I'll be supporting him in that struggle.
I don't believe Hillary's tenacity in 2008, nor Sanders' tenacity now, is a sign of disregard for the well-being of the country. Quite the contrary: I believe that both of them are driven by a desire to do the most they can for their country.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Unfortunately too many voters prefer the status quo.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)IMO, they spoke wisely, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that they spoke clearly, and we have a nominee. Now we need to beat Trump.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)So you want to deny more than half of the voters the right to have their say? How about the Green Party? Why don't you call for them to drop out?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I don't want to deny anyone the right to have a vote, I want Bernie to do the right thing and get behind Hillary so we can join forces against Trump.
I'm not sure what the Green Party has to do with this, but if it was up to me, they would just come on board with the Democrats, at least at the presidential level, and stop trying to bring about another 2000.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)The Green Party can join with Bernie Sanders. The independents are more relevant in the upcoming states and are much more likely to go for Bernie Sanders. The rest of this country should still have their day to vote for the candidate of their choice. The upcoming states are more Bernie Sanders friendly states anyway.
Hillary Clinton did not drop out of the race when Obama was running. She stayed in until June. I want Bernie Sanders in thru the convention floor.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...he's going to the convention, and he has just reiterated that point. Leave it to you to chime in that it's time to bow out.
Hillary, Please bow out now. You know you have big negatives, you know you have big potential legal liabilities, and you have campaigned (among other things) against the "better idea" of single-payer, universal health care, which used to be a bedrock principle of the Democratic party.
I'll be sending more $$$ his way. I want Bernie's message to keep getting out there and resonating, all the way to the convention.
Thank you, Bernie, for staying in the race! I salute you!! Go, Bernie!!!!! Let's take it to the corrupt system that lets the poor scrabble for crumbs while the rich continue to vacuum up resources and befoul the planet that we all must live on!
Logical
(22,457 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)worry about Bernie when they insult him daily?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)enjoy
DanTex
(20,709 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)that will do it
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... It's not time for Sanders to quit. He is good for the Democratic Party, and if he can bring in hundreds of thousands of millennials, he will create a long-term shift to the left for the Party, which is good for the Party and good for the United States. The only people who should want him to drop out are centrist or conservative Democrats.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)him on March 26.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)How so?
TexasBushwhacker
(20,202 posts)The remaining states, especially those with a lot of delegates, are considerably bluer.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Which of these does Sanders even have an outside shot at?
TexasBushwhacker
(20,202 posts)He will pick up delegates in those states. It's just a question of how many and I think he'll do well on the west coast. And Clinton still has that nagging e-mail situation.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)You think he will be net positive on delegates in those delegate rich states? Which ones? If Clinton is net positive in those delegate rich states, that puts Sanders farther behind. Where's he going to make it up? Washington and Oregon? The number of pledged delegates in just Pennsylvania is bigger than that in Washington an Oregon combined. Is Bernie going to take 70% of the delegates in California?
That we don't have winner take all actually works against Bernie now, no? He's 300+ behind in pledged delegates.
If you're placing your eggs in the email basket, you'll have the same result as people who were sure the Tony Rezco thing was going to blow up on a guy named Obama. Something about a house purchase, splitting a lot? Nobody remembers anymore.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,202 posts)Sorry, but he is not obliged to roll over and play dead when there are still 2300 delegates available, even more when you consider the superdelegates can change their mind at any time.
As for the e-mails, it is all being investigated by the FBI. can you say that about Obama's relationship with Rezco? No, you can't. And the head of the FBI is a REPUBLICAN. So if indictment is recommended by the FBI, Obama and Lynch can refuse to indict her, but the damage is done. I'm not saying it's right or fair, but it isn't going away. And for whatever bizarre reason the GOP hates the Clintons with a white hot passion of a thousand suns.
We have the weird situation this time where the front runners of both parties have just as many people hating them as supporting them. The establishment of the GOP is worried about Trump for that very reason. The establishment of the Democratic party doesn't seem to think that Clinton's negatives matter. I think they do and I think they ignore them at their peril.
The thing is, Sanders' negative - that he's a Democratic Socialist - is the very thing his supporters like about him. In states where the voter turnout has been high, Sanders has done well. Clinton does best when voter turnout is low. That will be deadly in the GE.
Just to clarify, I will vote for Clinton if she is the Democratic nominee. I'm in Texas, so it won't really matter, but I will vote for her. While it will be difficult for Bernie to win the nomination, it is not impossible, and people in the late primary states have a right for their vote to count.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)I think it's important for his supporters to see that he actually lost. I want all the votes in all the states for that reason.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Period.
period
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Sanders staying in even though he has no chance of winning has no upside. It makes him look foolish, drains precious resources we will need in the general, and wastes time that could be better spent unifying the party.
merrily
(45,251 posts)IMPOSSIBLE for her to win. Not "merely" unlikely, mind you, but impossible.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)And she wasn't out of it until the supers flipped to Obama. So nothing about 2008 is justification here.
merrily
(45,251 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Here, refresh your memory a bit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
Logical
(22,457 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Stay on, Bernie.
Vinca
(50,278 posts)one thing: an end to the investigations. I'm still really nervous about having a nominee who is the subject of an FBI investigation. The campaign ads will write themselves.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)His hand is forced on this one.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)its clear he wants to. the states ahead are much better for him than the south, he has plenty of money, and we are months away from the convention. he has promised all the states will get to vote and i think that is a good thing.
he seems to be enjoying himself, too. and win or lose, he will not likely get this chance again to get his message out to so many people.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I know I separate with a number of my Clinton friends on this but he simply has no say in the matter.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)is it your view that he really wishes to exit? or that if at some point he wanted to, that he would feel obligated?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)1) Even if Sanders money decreases over the next month(s), he will still have an enormous haul. These will continue to be small donations from a lot of people. Sanders sees that and understands it's not about him.
2) A large amount of people have come out to support him at rallies and at the polls. They will continue to show up, even if the numbers slightly decline in the coming months. Sanders sees that and understands it's not about him, it's about massive change.
3) Sanders cannot trust the DNC and he must go to the convention. He must hold his delegates and go with as much clout as he can. It's about more than winning. He has to hold as many cards as he can. The people have given him this voice, it's not about him.
4) Sanders tested the waters to see if their was support for massive change in this country when I believe he had no true plans to do so originally. The people looked back at him and roared with acceptance. The timing couldn't have been better in a two party system where the democrats field consisted of three people. The perfect opportunity. There can be no quit. It wasn't about him from the beginning.
5) What kind of person quits halfway through a primary when they are calling for a revolution? Not the Sanders kind.
Sanders was a righteous activist at a young age. He then disappeared for a bit as many did in those days. He started to run for office as an activist and failed more often than succeeded. He then started taking a different approach and became a career politician. Literally decades with almost no leadership nationally. He represented his constituency well.
He found his roots as an activist early on in this primary. We are seeing the Sanders of his youth. I truly consider what he is doing as more activism than candidate. It's really fun to watch in my opinion. It's not about him and he is consciously owned by his supporters.
I have some serious issues with many of his positions. I hold him in extremely high regard as a person. His conscience will not allow him to drop out as he is carrying a message for millions. He would sacrifice his health and life to be their voice.
I said this to you once before, don't mention to anyone that I hold him in such high regard. I know a lot about Sanders. I believe he views dropping out as something that is out of his hands. It's about more than winning. It's about changing society.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)he really is the kind of visionary that comes along all too rarely.
are you sure you are really for hillary?
kidding!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I enjoy the primaries. Even a lot of the nastiness that doesn't delve into the 'isms or 'trys. I truly believe it's the way it should be to a point. Early on in this primary I thoroughly detailed why I was supporting O'Malley, then did the same when I moved to Clinton. Not a word of it was anyone but Sanders. That does not mean I haven't taken some serious shots at him. I own each one.
I recently purchased a newspaper from the 1800's. It was printed during election season. The discussions were brutal and nasty. There is nothing new about this atmosphere, just the manner in which information is disseminated.
I love Clinton and so many of her supporters here. We often stand up for one and other like family. That doesn't mean I don't have serious issues with Clinton. But this is a game that is played to win. It's why I still like so many Sanders supporters who have said some pretty nasty things directed at me personally. I really do think it should be rough and filled with passion.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)"way back when" when you were for OM. his supporters here have been some of the most reflective and informed posters i have come across and excellent advocates for him.
i imagine that the newspaper, for good or bad, shows that we humans probably haven't changed all that much.
i feel the same about my fellow bernie supporters. they are a big reason i have not had a nervous breakdown during this primary season. but i like to think i have some friends among supporters of other candidates. i have had some contentious but in a good way exchanges, and some admittedly, not in a good way. i have had my moments, and i probably should not post when i am feeling particularly upset or snarky.
and while i think the calls for unity are premature and possibly not achievable, i hope we can get to a place of a little less rancor around here.
one thing for sure, if its anyone vs trump, we will need plenty of this!
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...thank you for that. Really well thought out and this Sanders supporter really appreciates it.
I think you are right, he really can't drop out at this point. He is way, way stronger than anyone including he himself anticipated; it would be a shame to squander the chance to build up the delegate count and at the very least have a lot of clout when formulating the party platform.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)Bernie Sanders has started a movement. He has fought the fight in Washington for the people on his own for decades....without asking for glorification. He now sees that at this time in his life and at this time he has to take it to the people. He hopes to light a fire for them to use their strength and will, to be bring the fight to the polls and to the streets. A revolution is what is needed to bring this country back to its roots and ideals that it was founded on.
No other candidate is speaking for us in this way. There is a reason why this man who virtually was an unknown has even resonated to so many people and been able to grow so quickly with many people. His voice is our voice.
We can all see the insincerity of the candidates. Do they have experience. Yes. They have experience in playing both sides. That is why we all are so frustrated. To them it is a game of power and wealth.
Even though Bernie has had a virtual blackout from the media and virtually no help from the DNC, his support is still growing. He isn just running a candidacy he is running to start a movement He will do that all the way and past the nomination. This isn't for a power trip it is for a change for our country.
I feel bad that so many people are so jaded and closed off that they cannot see the spark, the sincerity and that they cannot hear the message. They are unhappy with the status quo yet in fear, they reject the change.
merrily
(45,251 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)He was out later that night.
oasis
(49,389 posts)Does he expect those $27 donations to keep rolling in after the SWEEP?
Meanwhile, at Camp Hillary $$$$$$$$$$$$ it will be raining Benjamins. He just won't be able to keep up.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...all the way to the convention.
oasis
(49,389 posts)it would save him from paying those humongous Phily cab fares.
tritsofme
(17,380 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)attacking Hillary so personally from now on. That's the issue I have with Bernie: He is not really a democrat, although he is certainly on the left. Still, he doesn't have loyalty to the democratic party and it wouldn't be difficult for him to play the spoiler and do damage to our candidate.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)personal but Hillary on the other hand has. Like her insinuation that Bernie was a sexist and saying to people in SC that he put the guns in Dylann Roof's hands. Just some friendly advice, you better not keep track of the GE because the GOP be it Trump or whoever will make your ears bleed....
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)on Hillary are not helpful to our party and not personally advantageous for him since the math is not in his favor anyway.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)see you chose to ignore Hillary's not so artful smears...
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)I saw a post that AZ is 50% Clinton and 24 Bernie with 20 undecided...they will try their best to rig it...what does AZ use for voting does anyone know?
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Karma13612
(4,552 posts)as the vote tally kept increasing for Hillary.
My local (very Bernie friendly) TV station cut AWAY from his speech in AZ last night before it was over.
I was needing to hear him Say he was still in it to win it.
I am so glad to read this post.
thank you!!
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Said no presidential candidate EVER even though that's what all but one from each party does any way.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)I'm with him until the convention and beyond!