...

Since the chorus to one of his big vocals is the word "Fire!" repeated.

There's all sorts of interesting themes running through their work.

Or am I mistaken?

I suppose you could make the argument that post bill berry electronica-fest "up" was air themed.

Once thing i will say is that murmur- their first LP- is one of the most subtly psychedelic albums of the era, if not ever.

It just feels "earthy", if that makes sense.

I have a 20-year old cousin who had never heard of Kurt Cobain...

But we all marinate in music.

Also, Kurt Cobain wielded an outsized influence on the perception of "Gen X" as an entity because he symbolized a lot of stuff in the collective mind. While he was talented and groundbreaking, its worth noting that the total output of Nirvana wasnt that much material.

Conversely, love em or hate em it is pretty hard to think of too many American rock and roll bands with a catalog as extensive, varied, influential and ubiquitously played, as R.E.M.

Most bands could pack their legacy away with a couple "end of the world" "man on the moon" and "radio free europe"s. Even though R.E.M. Had some spectacular misfires, they had easily 20 years worth of tunes that most people would recognize or have heard at some point.

Sure, the total output was limited by the whole suicide thing, but in terms of legacy, Nirvana takes it hands down. Yes, he did symbolize a lot of stuff in the collective mind, which is what artists do. Nirvana was *the* GenX band, hands down, and no REM songs come close to "Teen Spirit" in terms of impact and widespread recognizability.

I like REM as much as the next guy, but they're no Nirvana.

FWIW Rolling Stone ranks REM #97 and Nirvana #30.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-artists-of-all-time-19691231

KC himself recognized how influential R.E.M. was. They opened the floodgates on a whole bunch of things that Nirvana built upon.

I don't know how old you are, but I was in college in the 80s, and the idea that "grunge" and all this Gen X stuff appeared out of nowhere one morning in Seattle in 1991 is a media creation. There was a lot of stuff going on that precluded it.

was the people in their twenties while I was in my teens. So I certainly wasn't paying attention to music in the 80s nearly closely enough to know the precursors to Grunge.

Anyway, this conversation reminds me of an exchange from "The Wrestler" that I always thought was funny:

It wasnt all hair metal. I wanted nothing to do with that.

Kurt had pretty good taste. Like he does a cover of at least one meat puppets tune, i know of. He and stipe were friends, in later years- I think stipe wrote the song "let me in" about him, or about trying to help him through some of the attendant bullshit of megafame and whatnot.

I believe they had talked about collaborating, how cool would that have been, had things gone differently.

And I think it's probably been the most widely listened to and influential decade except for the 60s. Still today there are 80s nights, but 70s nights or 90s nights or 00s nights are rare. And you see 22-year-olds singing along and knowing the words to a bunch of 80s songs that came out before they were born.

A Cobain-REM collaboration would have been great. Although IMO, despite the tragedy of Cobain's early death, musically I kind of think he had already "made his point". I feel like the music world lost more when, for example, Amy Winehouse died, because I think she had a lot more good and influential music to make.

Nirvana's impact on music and popular culture was drastic, but it burned itself out pretty quick. Even most of the guitar-oriented "alternative" rock of the early-to-mid-90s was more like rehashed 70s rock than the Black Sabbath/punk/Beatles mix that Nirvana cooked up.

REM's influence was lower key, but sustained itself a lot longer. Listen to any indie rock station for an hour or so, and you will hear something from the last 5 years that sounds like the music REM was putting out in the 80s.

I always liked this Drive-By Truckers song about how rock music changed overnight in the early 90s:

Don't get me wrong, I love REM, and they definitely had a more sustained long run of good and unique music. Just that, IMO, even though the band didn't last long or produce that much, the impact that Nirvana had was greater.

Unfortunately, part of that impact was a decade of really bad and annoying Nirvana imitation bands.

WTF?

REM, love em or hate em, they were a presence musically through the 80s and the 90s, at least.

Hell, half or more of lifes rich pageant. Right there.

I also like this one, as a post-mortem on the Bush years, it is a relatively recent powerful addition IMHO

She takes good booty pics, I'll grant her that.

and received wider notice after a 2003 sex tape with her former boyfriend."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Kardashian

I had to Google it.

Thats hot!

I just have one question: Who the HELL is
Michael Stipe?

You should know not only who Stipe is, but be aware of his solid track record on progressive issues.

Im kidding, just trying to find a data point or two that might make sense, here.

I'm partial to the IRS years, since I became a fan about the time Reckoning came out.

Interestingly enough, the one I probably listen to least is Out of Time, and that's got arguably their hugest "hit" on it.

I have a few of those, I am fans of.

will get this for Bernie.I see alot of young kids that go that way.

But,I see much more over 50+ going that way because we can remember when the richest country on Earth was affording all of us a decent life.

There's a solid political undercurrent through their whole catalog.

I fear for the rest

I want to cry.

Double egads!

I've been geeking on Clutch lately... a bit late to the party.. but then, a friend of mine from the old music days posted some old flyers and ads from the early 90s, and it turns out I actually played a show or two with them back around 92-93 lol.

Nice to see you, too.

Small technical quibble; AFAIC it's not really a gnome beard unless it be scraggly and gray.

much like the rest of us though, he's getting there. (From their newest disc):

It's kind of hard to understand what he's saying sometimes.

For the same reason that famous Seurat painting at the art institute can teach you all sorts of things about the way your brain constructs reality from assorted data points, if you pay attention.

Or like, the book is usually better than the movie, because you fill in the details from your own imagination.

The Rolling Stones Tumbling' Dice: can't understand a friggin' word, magnificent song.

Linda Ronstadt version: Lyrics clear as a bell, wouldn't willingly listen to it twice.

you can always hide the thread, mac.

"...we can reach our destination but we're still a ways away..."

Jefferson, I think we're lost

"The consul a horse" is a Caligula reference, btw


I can't see myself at thirty, I don't buy a lacquered thirty
Caught like flies, preserved for tomorrow's jewelery, again
Lighted in the amber yard, a green shellback, green shellback
Preserved for tomorrow's eyes, in tree beer tar-black brer sap,
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, Jefferson I think we're lost

Who will tend the farm museums? Who will dust today's belongings?
Who will sweep the floors, hedging near the givens?
Rally round your leaders it's the mediator season
Diane is on the beach, do you realize the life she's led?
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, oh man I think we're lost
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
A matter of course, Jefferson, Jeffer

Lighted in the amber yard, a green shellback, green shellback
Sky-lied, sty-tied, Nero pie-tied, in tree tar-black brer sap,
Reason has harnessed the tame, a lodging, not stockader's game
Another Greenville, another Magic Mart, Jeffer, grab your fiddle,
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, Jefferson I think we're lost
The biggest wagon is the empty wagon is the noisiest,
The consul a horse, Jefferson I think we're lost